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Eliot Rosewater

(31,109 posts)
Fri Sep 8, 2017, 07:28 PM Sep 2017

So I hear the Democratic Party "panders" to Wall Street!

Not sure what that means, but I do know that our entire economy is based, one way or another on capitalism, and our version of capitalism is headquartered on Wall Street.

The Democratic Party works with Wall Street because not to do so would be suicide and ignoring how we exist.

Do I like corporations and Wall Street? Nope, I would abolish both if I had the power, but I dont.

Do I want the Nordic version of life including guaranteed incomes and national healthcare? Yep.

But not gonna happen right now so here is my suggestion, why not work within the actual framework we have, strive toward a better tomorrow, and oh, I dont know, stop the GOD DAMN NAZI'S at the same time?

eh?

36 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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So I hear the Democratic Party "panders" to Wall Street! (Original Post) Eliot Rosewater Sep 2017 OP
Why don't you like corporations? nt DURHAM D Sep 2017 #1
A construct designed to enrich and empower the state, not the people Not Ruth Sep 2017 #2
The premise in your subject line may or may not be true... Major Nikon Sep 2017 #14
Their very existence, by definition, is to ignore Eliot Rosewater Sep 2017 #3
Full of ridiculous assumptions about most corporations. nt DURHAM D Sep 2017 #4
Not assumptions at all, read ANY corporate charter. Eliot Rosewater Sep 2017 #20
Very True. Snackshack Sep 2017 #26
Who said they 'pander to Wall Street?' leftstreet Sep 2017 #5
Are you serious? mcar Sep 2017 #13
How do you think they pay for generous social programs in Nordic social democracies? Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #6
Damn, I said this in 2016 but ...oh, well. You know the rest.,,$250,000 speeches and shit. haveahart Sep 2017 #7
If you looked at the assets of even the most outspoken politicians against "Wall Street"..... George II Sep 2017 #8
I've seen how Jill Stein owns a nice chunk of stock in Merck Pharmaceuticals. Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #9
that's their business and how they make money JI7 Sep 2017 #19
Exactly my point. Eliot Rosewater Sep 2017 #21
Sometime last year people here were harping on the origin of contributions to candidates... George II Sep 2017 #23
What does that mean? Do you need to go off the grid to advocate against something? I'm sure we'd JCanete Sep 2017 #25
Wall Street bad mcar Sep 2017 #10
+1 leftofcool Sep 2017 #12
Nailed it! Scurrilous Sep 2017 #15
+1 uponit7771 Sep 2017 #17
Who are you referring to? What was his or her message when running? What people say, matters as a JCanete Sep 2017 #27
+1000, exactly. Wall Street has no significance after all. It's just used as a R B Garr Sep 2017 #30
I would like to see an end to capitalism, myself. Scruffy1 Sep 2017 #11
watch michael moore's capitalism a love story clu Sep 2017 #16
Also Watch "Inside Job" colsohlibgal Sep 2017 #18
the OP implies clu Sep 2017 #22
Acknowledging the reality that corps and Wall Street basically IS our economy Eliot Rosewater Sep 2017 #31
IMO clu Sep 2017 #36
Nobody is suggesting we disband Wall Street. You can't seriously think it doesn't have huge JCanete Sep 2017 #24
Someday we'll forge a partnership with corporations like Denmark and other countries. Most of us Hoyt Sep 2017 #28
Yeah I have worked for small businesses and it is not all that great. Willie Pep Sep 2017 #32
I'll tell you exactly what it means jmowreader Sep 2017 #29
I have no problem working with Wall Street or corporate America if they want to compromise. Willie Pep Sep 2017 #33
So if they wont compromise, you do what? Eliot Rosewater Sep 2017 #34
One thing would be changing labor law to make it easier for workers to join unions. Willie Pep Sep 2017 #35
 

Not Ruth

(3,613 posts)
2. A construct designed to enrich and empower the state, not the people
Fri Sep 8, 2017, 07:41 PM
Sep 2017

Corporations: Incentive to Harm
September 19th, 2013 Submitted by Sima Qian

CorpAs left-anarchists are often quick to point out, corporations have a bloody history. During the colonial era corporate structures were some of the most effective tools of conquest, and today that legacy lives on with “security” firms like G4s, or weapons manufacturers like Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman or BAE Systems. On the other hand, “corporation” can also refer to your corner bakery, a small manufacturer, or farm. Most businesses these days have some form of limited liability, and corporate “personhood.”

These two different expressions of what a corporation “is” (an arm of the state, or a firm engaged in voluntary exchange) often make it difficult for right-anarchists and left-anarchists to discuss corporate structures with each other. The left often assumes that “corporation” refers to massive systems of power that dumb-down and spy on the masses, while distracting people to keep them in line. The right often assumes that “corporation” refers to a group of people doing their best to provide their customers with the goods and services that people most intensely want.

Both these stories are true.

Corporations as arms of the state:

The first corporations were created as extensions of monarchical power. These corporations (like The Company of Merchant Adventurers, which has the greatest name ever) were often created in order to establish trade routes with foreign governments. It was required at the time that they have some “official” backing by their native government. These corporations were essentially outgrowths of feudal power, to the extent that it may be more clear to think of these legal fictions, the corporate bodies, as Noblemen. The corporate person was a vassal of the monarch (and eventually of the republic), except the power was vested in a group of “adventurers” rather than in a single person. Many of these companies held their own armies, most notably the East India Company and the Dutch East India Company. The East India Company was an extension of the British state to the point that it was eventually officially subsumed back into its folds.

Early corporations literally conquered new lands in the name of their respective states, and were essential in colonization. However, they not only served as tools for invasion, but also served for the “public good,” as the state calls anything that it would like to grant as a monopoly privilege to the well-connected. Recourse to a corporate form of governance (and the related limited liability) was not only allowed to trading firms, but also allowed by states for certain capital-intensive projects, like railways and banking. The theory was that these functions were so important to the general good that it would be acceptable for normal rules concerning liability to be waived (obviously, as long as the corporation followed the rules and guidelines, created with the most honorable of intentions, set down by the state.)

Early corporate structures were “obviously” arms of the state. This continues today with banks reporting to the government about money flows, telecommunications companies reporting to the government about phone calls and texts, ISPs and Email providers reporting to the government about web activity, the multitude of companies related to the wars, etc. etc. The left is clearly correct about corporations being arms of the state.

Corporation as firms in the market:

By the mid-1800’s the small amount of liberty that had been wrested from the state (I say “small” because there was still slavery, and women weren’t “persons,” but the property of their husbands) had lead to an explosion of wealth. Shares in the most liquid partnerships were traded almost daily and there were partnerships comprised of hundreds of “partners.” Partners could, and did, write almost whatever they liked in their contracts, and one of the clauses written in some partnership agreements was limited liability for one or more of the partners. This made a lot of sense in many cases.

Suppose Bob wants to sell molasses, so he talks to his buddy Bill. Now, Bill understands the molasses business and knows Bob is an experienced molasses salesman. Bill expects them to make a large return on his investment. But Bill’s already busy managing his widget factory, and he knows that the molasses making business can be risky. What if there’s a problem, and the molasses floods the town? Bill doesn’t want to be liable for that. So, Bill agrees to be a partner, and puts up money for the business on the stipulation that he’s not expected to do any work for the company, and assumes no liability for the company’s debts. They sign a contract and everyone’s happy.

Unless something went wrong.

If people were damaged by the operations of the molasses business they would have had a hell of a time suing. For one thing, except in extreme circumstances, a suit had to be brought against each partner individually. When there were hundreds of partners, and who was a partner was changing every day, this was almost impossible. And then there was a question of contract law. On one hand, under common law, people could generally make whatever contracts they’d like, but on the other, there were damages. If Paul was harmed by Bob’s company, clearly he should receive restitution, but if Bob didn’t have enough money, should Bill, who only became a partner on the stipulation that he wouldn’t be liable, have to pay?

Eventually governments attempted to solve the problem by allowing a much broader application of corporate forms. Corporate personhood allowed for one “person” to be sued when a corporation caused damages, while a wider application of limited liability, granted by the state, settled many questions that otherwise might have been negotiated through private contract.

After these reforms, corporations (the business of which used to be almost exclusively managed through partnerships) were “obviously” just trying to sell goods and services to willing customers. This continues today with all the particular businesses that you interact with, many of which you’re probably not even aware of, and that will be different for every person, because markets are incredibly diverse.

Analysis of the Modern Corporation:

Just as the state likes to divide people over race, gender, religion and other ways, it also divides people over definitions. Corporations provide people with goods and services that are useful and in demand. Corporations are also arms of the state. To the extent that a corporation serves some government(s) (regulations, taxes, reporting to the state etc.) it will be more an arm of the state. To the extent that a corporation serves various people, it will be a business providing useful goods and services. These two things are not mutually exclusive.

Corporations are often required to have certain hierarchical structures by law. We see historically this has been based on feudal military chains of command. Many positions in these structures have “objectives” that incentivize the people filling the positions to go after a single goal without groking the fullness of their actions. This, combined with the limited liability granted by the state, in many cases creates perverse incentives for corporations and people working for corporations. Along with certain tax codes that encourage “bigness” in order to be able to discount expenses and receive certain tax credits, these things mean that there is an incentive for corporations to become authoritarian and bureaucratic in structure and form generally.

The existence of these bureaucratic structures are then used for Statist ends, giving a hand-out to favored groups (almost all labor laws fall under this category), checking the power of certain unfavored groups (child labor laws, licensing requirements) and doing work that directly benefits the state (spying on the populous, keeping people distracted etc). These things are done through regulations and subsidies, and are the bulk of what historically the libertarian right has argued against in reference to the state and corporations. Clearly, yes, there would be more prosperity and freedom without these regulations, but the left is correct that the very structures underlying corporate forms, as they exist today, tend to create bureaucratization and authoritarianism. Unfortunately, these structures of power have been identified with the “free market” even though under a truly free market there would be no limited liability and organizations could be organized in whatever way the people in the organization thought best. This causes confusion that results in disagreement where there should be agreement.

When it comes to corporations, I think anarchists on the right and left agree about more than we disagree about. Corporations, today, are used by the state and this should stop.

Would corporations exist in a stateless society? I suspect something like them would exist, but it would perhaps allow people to choose their own “boss” instead of a strictly hierarchical, almost feudal set up. Instead of having strictly limited liability for shareholders, there might be tranches for shares, where different tranches had different liabilities and paid different dividends. Also, regulation would be done by the market through customers buying the best goods at the lowest prices and by The Sword of Damocles of potential lawsuits hanging over tranche owners’ heads.

If you’re ever in an argument with someone on the left and their argument is assuming you support corporate power as an arm of the state, point out that this is not the case, find common ground, and gripe about the state together.

Tags: Corporations, East India Company


https://dailyanarchist.com/2013/09/19/corporations-incentive-to-harm/

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
14. The premise in your subject line may or may not be true...
Fri Sep 8, 2017, 09:06 PM
Sep 2017

but the supporting article looks quite a bit like nonsense.

Eliot Rosewater

(31,109 posts)
3. Their very existence, by definition, is to ignore
Fri Sep 8, 2017, 07:41 PM
Sep 2017

the environment, employees, the community and to maximize profit no matter what.

If we didnt have some of the laws we have, and we may not soon given the current situation, corps by definition will NOT do the right thing as to any of these things unless they are a. forced to by law or b. determine not to will cost them money

For instance if you remove tort lawsuits and make it so it is cheaper to fly bad planes than to fix them, because the cost of killing people is low, then by definition the corp will fly bad planes.

Now the PR of such a move will come into play, but if one does it they all do it then you have no choice, do you.

A corporate charter is by definition (look it up) bad for everybody but the shareholders.

Having said ALL that, I support the D party working with Wall Street since there is no alternative.

I also dont like capitalists, now there are very few real ones in this country and even less on this board, and I am not one, but I dont like them either, but they exist.

I am also a huge supporter of Hillary Clinton and in the current existence we are in see nothing at all wrong with her speech to whoever it was.

Snackshack

(2,541 posts)
26. Very True.
Sat Sep 9, 2017, 03:36 PM
Sep 2017

The documentary "The Corporation" changed forever my view of the Michelin Man and the Golden Arches with the funny clown.

Had the Dodge brothers lost their lawsuit against Mr. Ford things might be different but they won and that set tone/standard for all corporations that followed.

If you have not seen it I highly recommend it. The chapter about Monsanto's Posilac was unbelievable and infuriating.

 

Expecting Rain

(811 posts)
6. How do you think they pay for generous social programs in Nordic social democracies?
Fri Sep 8, 2017, 08:02 PM
Sep 2017

Do you see Swedish social democrats demonizing Volvo? The Norwegians attacking the oil industry?

They are not populists who sound like they lifted lines from Hugo Chavez.

The Nords love the benefits of stong capitalist economies that pay for nice things.

George II

(67,782 posts)
8. If you looked at the assets of even the most outspoken politicians against "Wall Street".....
Fri Sep 8, 2017, 08:15 PM
Sep 2017

....you'd see that the vast majority of their investments and net worth are tied up in "Wall Street" and the financial industry.

Have a credit card? "Wall Street" and the financial industry.
Have a checking account? "Wall Street" and the financial industry.
Have a car loan? "Wall Street" and the financial industry.
Have a mortgage? "Wall Street" and the financial industry.
Have a 401k? "Wall Street" and the financial industry.
Have a pension? "Wall Street" and the financial industry.

Need I go on?

JI7

(89,247 posts)
19. that's their business and how they make money
Sat Sep 9, 2017, 05:52 AM
Sep 2017

claiming to be against the system.

but there is no real movement to get change . there is no actual policy with details on how to get the changes in the system.

they can sell books, paid appearances , films etc. that's what it's about for them. and the money they make will go into the capitalist , financial, wall street industry.

Eliot Rosewater

(31,109 posts)
21. Exactly my point.
Sat Sep 9, 2017, 01:23 PM
Sep 2017

I am very much a part of the system myself, and am aware that I must function within that system or perish.

If I went on tv and repeated a "wish list" that cant come true even in 20 years, I would be doing a disservice, I saw that again on a late night show this week.

George II

(67,782 posts)
23. Sometime last year people here were harping on the origin of contributions to candidates...
Sat Sep 9, 2017, 01:54 PM
Sep 2017

...especially those from "Wall Street" and the banking industry.

I grew up in New York City, six siblings in the family.

My father worked for a bank, my older brother, myself, one of my younger brothers and my younger sister all worked for banks at one time or another in their working careers - that's five of eight of us. One also worked in the back room of a brokerage (i.e., not a stock broker)

None of us were upper management, two were in clerical positions, my father and I were in "data processing" (now IT), and my sister was a bank teller.

One guy in the discussion called us all "banksters"!!

My point is that for my family and many others in New York, its difficult to not work in one aspect of "banking" or another. Also, it's virtually impossible for any American to not have dealings with banks or the dreaded "Wall Street", unless one spends his/her entire life dealing only with cash and keeping savings under a mattress.

Most of us contributed at one time or another to Democratic candidates. That means we all would have been categorized in FEC filings as "Banking"!!

Now back to my original premise - I don't think there's a candidate in the country at any level who also has no dealings with "Wall Street" or the banking industry. In fact, since I've been a treasurer for several candidates over the years I know that, BY LAW, we were required to maintain a checking account. Guess where? AT A BANK!

 

JCanete

(5,272 posts)
25. What does that mean? Do you need to go off the grid to advocate against something? I'm sure we'd
Sat Sep 9, 2017, 02:31 PM
Sep 2017

be listening really intently to somebody who fit that bill. Its like saying, you advocate for public transportation in this neighborhood, but you drive a car. Yeah, no shit. There's no public transportation. All those things you listed are realities of our current system. That doesn't mean they in themselves are all bad, obviously, not that I have a grasp of this subject enough to fully understand why any of those couldn't exist without Wall Street, but I get that purchasing stocks is an infusion of capital into an industry. I'm also not aware of any mainstream politician suggesting we get rid of Wall Street entirely. They simply want our leadership to do its job and regulate it.
 

JCanete

(5,272 posts)
27. Who are you referring to? What was his or her message when running? What people say, matters as a
Sat Sep 9, 2017, 03:54 PM
Sep 2017

starting point, because that gives us something to hold them accountable for when they are in office. You can't hold a person who promises nothing or very little to much of a standard. It is harder to show that the person has gone against his or her word, because the word was already so ambiguous and non-committal. If somebody from that industry runs for office and promises to regulate wall street, etc., while yes, that person's history of course still matters and should be factored, I'm perfectly fine with allowing for personal growth. I'm perfectly fine with the idea that a person can evolve on issues. Also, there is nothing inherently evil about being a Wall Street exec, though, I'd be surprised to find such a person has succeeded without being a little flexible on principles, or without any harm being caused as a bi-product of those endeavors.

R B Garr

(16,950 posts)
30. +1000, exactly. Wall Street has no significance after all. It's just used as a
Sat Sep 9, 2017, 05:21 PM
Sep 2017

way to taint someone as undesirable if they don't support or if they challenge you know who.

Scruffy1

(3,255 posts)
11. I would like to see an end to capitalism, myself.
Fri Sep 8, 2017, 08:42 PM
Sep 2017

However, i don't see it happening any time soon. I was born a Democrat,will die one ,and will always support Democratic candidates. I've been through a long life and to me third parties are a waste of time and mainly about ego. The way we get to a better world is one step at a time.












the way we get to a better world is one small step ata

 

clu

(494 posts)
16. watch michael moore's capitalism a love story
Fri Sep 8, 2017, 09:42 PM
Sep 2017

they've been re-running it on starz it could be on-demand. some industries are too important to leave to a profit motive. socialize them like any other country (buy out the management at cost) and stop a system that pushes customer revenue into a health insurance system to stockholders removed from patient care. one or two other industries are important enough to require special consideration.

lobby system and citizens united are aware of this and will fight to the death.

colsohlibgal

(5,275 posts)
18. Also Watch "Inside Job"
Sat Sep 9, 2017, 01:02 AM
Sep 2017

You will see how Iceland handled the Banksters who caused a crash there by their pure greed as opposed to how we did. And you learn a whole lot more.

I cannot recommend this Doc enough.

 

clu

(494 posts)
22. the OP implies
Sat Sep 9, 2017, 01:23 PM
Sep 2017

that staying away from progressive politics is the only way to ensure an election. this may be true in flyover country but progressive messages resound and if the leadership chooses to ignore it - "know them by their deeds"

Eliot Rosewater

(31,109 posts)
31. Acknowledging the reality that corps and Wall Street basically IS our economy
Sat Sep 9, 2017, 06:17 PM
Sep 2017

is staying away from progressive politics?

You see, your comment perfectly illustrates why so many "progressives" are confused, wrong, etc.

 

clu

(494 posts)
36. IMO
Sat Sep 9, 2017, 06:53 PM
Sep 2017

campaign funding sits in the way of selection and support of some candidates. there are two or three industries that need to be socialized for proper governance but this can't be talked about politically for certain reasons. healthcare and energy production should not be left to a profit maximizing motive. a politician can't say "these companies have held billions offshore, and two decades of outsourcing need to be credited from 15% tax rate income".

oh wait one politician did say that. were they popular? did they do well with an independent vote?

 

JCanete

(5,272 posts)
24. Nobody is suggesting we disband Wall Street. You can't seriously think it doesn't have huge
Sat Sep 9, 2017, 02:18 PM
Sep 2017

influence on more than just the regulation of itself, but that alone is something that requires real pushback....not "whatever watch-dogging they agree to", compromise bullshit. How we regulate it...what we let Wall Street do that might put our economy and industries, and savings at risk, is the point. What we let bad actors get away with without anything more significant than laughable fines, and certainly without the prosecution of any individuals breaking our already too sparse laws, is the point.

The whole notion that something is not going to happen right now so lets not talk about it so that some day it will happen, has to strike you, when you think about it, as just a little absurd. Nothing becomes a reality without talking about it and pushing for it and getting the American people to see it as a viable possibility. Not talking about shit so that we can just keep trying to fight the shit the GOP IS talking about, is what we've been doing for the last 30 years.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
28. Someday we'll forge a partnership with corporations like Denmark and other countries. Most of us
Sat Sep 9, 2017, 04:00 PM
Sep 2017

work for corporations (as do most in Scandinavian countries), and most tax revenue comes from people who work. While big corporations are imposing, I never felt particularly secure when I worked for mom and pop businesses. Didn't make much either.

I would like to see things like healthcare, supplement retirement, etc., removed from the corporate realm.

Willie Pep

(841 posts)
32. Yeah I have worked for small businesses and it is not all that great.
Sat Sep 9, 2017, 06:23 PM
Sep 2017

I was never paid well and had no benefits. The only good thing was that I had a good personal relationship with the owners but I have known other people who worked for small business owners who were as tyrannical as any corporation.

I would like to return to the post-war labor-corporate compromise but the problem is that corporate American doesn't want to compromise anymore. It seems to be their way or the highway.

jmowreader

(50,554 posts)
29. I'll tell you exactly what it means
Sat Sep 9, 2017, 05:16 PM
Sep 2017

To the GOP, there are Two Americas - Main Street America and Wall Street America.

Main Street America is lined with mom & pop businesses. They are lovingly operated little places where the staff all know your name when you walk in, they donate money to the local Little League and the Fourth of July Fireworks Display, they'd never lay a worker off, and all the money they make recirculates in the local economy. Main Street is Republicanism personified.

Wall Street America is big banks and big businesses. They're evil to their customers, to their workers, to the local economy. They can't wait to foreclose on Real Americans' Precious Homes and throw them out in the street just for fun - well, their fun anyway. They love to walk into a small town and throw everyone out of work just for the lulz. This is Wall Street:



(I was going to illustrate Main Street but the only suitable cartoon character I could think of was Prince Valiant - and most of y'all don't get that strip in your Sunday papers. Wall Street doesn't have that problem.)

And since the GOP already owns Main Street, the obvious conclusion is Wall Street's ours.

Of course, that's 100 percent pure bullshit. Come on, look at Trump's Cabinet. President Chuggo seems to have bought a copy of "Who's Who On Wall Street" and confirmed everyone in it to his administration.

The Secretary of State was CEO of the fourth largest company in America.
His Treasury Secretary was a bank CEO.
His Commerce Secretary is a corporate raider.
His Education Secretary is part of the top level of the Amway food chain.
His Small Business Administration administrator ran the biggest pro wrestling league in America.

And everyone else that works for him is either a politician who's too far to the right to join the John Birch Society, or he's a general.

The actual Wall Street contributes very heavily to the GOP. Many of them contribute nothing to the Democrats. A CEO or banker who donates largely, or exclusively, to the Democratic Party is a rare bird indeed.

Wall Street is a convenient albatross for the Republcans to hang around the Democratic Party's neck. One only has to be able to ignore the trail of albatross carcasses that rotted off the GOP's neck.

Willie Pep

(841 posts)
33. I have no problem working with Wall Street or corporate America if they want to compromise.
Sat Sep 9, 2017, 06:37 PM
Sep 2017

But these days too many powerful corporations want everything their way. After World War II there was a kind of silent agreement between labor and business that industrial peace, higher wages and better benefits were good for everyone. Workers could live better and buy more products and services that corporations produced. But in the last 40 years companies have become more anti-labor and started to use tactics that were not used much in the immediate post-war era such as firing striking workers.

The same thing goes for regulations. We need a strong financial sector but that doesn't mean that the financial sector should be given the freedom to do whatever it wants without regulatory oversight to protect the public. The New Deal was not about destroying capitalism but making it fairer and assuring that it worked for as many people as possible. But now New Deal-type ideas are often attacked as "idealistic" or "radical" despite producing the best era for American workers in history.

Eliot Rosewater

(31,109 posts)
34. So if they wont compromise, you do what?
Sat Sep 9, 2017, 06:41 PM
Sep 2017

Corporations dont compromise, by DEFINITION they exist to maximize profits NO MATTER WHAT, thus my critique.

You have to regulate the bastards, but if a politician cooperates with them to some extent or gives them a speech, this doesnt mean they are "pandering", it means they are accepting reality and working within that framework.

For instance I saw a politician on late night this week who repeated AGAIN the wish list of how things SHOULD BE, all of which I agree with. NONE of which will happen without completely renovating the house and senate offices as in putting democrats in them.

Willie Pep

(841 posts)
35. One thing would be changing labor law to make it easier for workers to join unions.
Sat Sep 9, 2017, 06:49 PM
Sep 2017

That would tip the balance in favor of workers and would help to force some companies to compromise. I agree with you that too many people are hard on the Democrats and think that they can win without engaging in politics. I have arguments like this with left-wing people all the time who think that unions should stop working with the Democrats and just concentrate on organizing. This is totally wrongheaded because union organizing is heavily dependent on labor law which means you need pro-labor politicians to reform labor law and get pro-labor judges on the bench, none of which will happen if people stay home or vote third party and let the Republicans win.

The problem with some people on the left is that they think that all you need is a "good platform" with a laundry list of stuff that they want. But politics is more than just putting out a good platform. You need to work within the system and sometimes that requires compromising and horse-trading and other stuff that some people on the left deride as "corruption" or "selling out."

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