General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWe were robbed in 2016, in 2004, and in 2000.
The voters spoke but the system was broken. We were robbed of 3 of the finest people ever elected to the presidency: Al Gore, John Kerry, and Hillary Clinton.
We HAVE to fix the system.
Madam45for2923
(7,178 posts)MFM008
(19,804 posts)And it's sad and sickening.
Especially the caliber of individuals that we did get.
annabanana
(52,791 posts)You know that attacking Iraq wouldn't have been even suggested.
There might very well have been less loss of life in Katrina
It goes on and on
blue cat
(2,415 posts)What could have been.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... involved in those elections too.
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)Why did "they" let Obama win twice?
milestogo
(16,829 posts)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2000
2004: Ohio made the difference between a win for Kerry and a win for Bush. "A review of the available data reveals that in Ohio alone, at least 357,000 voters, the overwhelming majority of them Democratic, were prevented from casting ballots or did not have their votes counted in 2004 -- more than enough to shift the results of an election decided by 118,601 votes. In what may be the single most astounding fact from the election, one in every four Ohio citizens who registered to vote in 2004 showed up at the polls only to discover that they were not listed on the rolls, thanks to GOP efforts to stem the unprecedented flood of Democrats eager to cast ballots. And that doesn't even take into account the troubling evidence of outright fraud, which indicates that upwards of 80,000 votes for Kerry were counted instead for Bush. That alone is a swing of more than 160,000 votes -- enough to have put John Kerry in the White House.
https://www.commondreams.org/views06/0601-34.htm
2016: Clinton received about 2.9 million more votes nationwide, a margin of 2.1%. On January 6, 2017, the United States government's intelligence agencies concluded that the Russian government interfered in the 2016 United States elections. By the time we know exactly what happened in this election Trump will have finished serving his term. But I don't have any doubt that there was enough interference to swing the election to Trump. When all the evidence is in, it will be overwhelming.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)world wide wally
(21,740 posts)That's what we need to decide... NOW!
egduj
(805 posts)milestogo
(16,829 posts)PDittie
(8,322 posts)if Gore is president in 2000? Are we suggesting that Gore does not run for re-election in '04, or that Kerry primaries him and defeats him?
Perhaps Kerry would have run in 2008, after Gore's two terms. Or perhaps the Democrats would have nominated Vice President Joe Lieberman. (Doubtful Obama could have defeated either one, IMO.)
And the way this country does things, it's possible John McCain could have won in 2008; Americans tend to tire of the same party in the WH after 8 years. Remember that the Great Wall Street/Housing Market Depression of '08 would not have been at Bush's feet, but Gore's (or maybe some Republican not named Bush who had defeated Gore in 2004).
Traveling back in time can create a few unintended consequences (a paradox, I think they're called).
nkpolitics1212
(8,617 posts)the Democratic Primary and his 2004 Republican challenger would have been McCain. Who would have won in 2004?
Gore/Lieberman-D?
McCain/Hagel-R?
PDittie
(8,322 posts)the kind of fantasy history revision game that gets spawned from these digressions. So I'll bite.
It probably hinges on 9/11: whether Gore was able to (give the appearance of being able to) stop it from happening, or if he wasn't, assume a tough guy posture and execute a military response, like W. I doubt whether Gore would have invaded Iraq, of course; that was its own Bizarro World one-off.
(I don't think, having lost the presidency in the Supreme Court in 2000, that George W. Bush would have ever sought the presidency again. But we might have seen Jeb pop up a lot sooner than 2016.)
Let's assume 9/11 happens as previously scheduled, historically. Gore gets blamed for being lax, and unlike Bush, does not start a war in Iraq but does go after Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan and does not capture or kill him prior to November 2004. In other words, history unfolds essentially as it actually did, without Iraq as a backdrop or distraction. No Abu Ghraib, no yellowcake in Niger, No Dick Cheney, no Scooter Libby outing Valerie Plame, etc.
Just 9/11 and no Osama in hand nor at the bottom of the sea, as it was thirteen years ago.
I would say more than likely, in this scenario, you would have seen John McCain sworn in as president in 2004. That the winning argument was: we need military men in charge in order to prosecute this War on Terra, or some such.
Extend that out and a Vice President Hagel would have eventually been a GOP nominee for president, perhaps in 2008 as MCCain retired but almost certainly in 2012. Hagel would be very difficult to defeat, given his prior four (or eight) years as VP. We might even be sitting in the middle of Hagel's second term, an unprecedented 13-going-on-16-year run for the GOP (only 12 years of Reagan-Reagan-HW Bush in the '80's and early '90's comes close in the modern era).
Pretty demoralizing for the Democrats, through that lens. More importantly, Senator Barack Obama of Illinois might still be waiting his turn, and no one had ever heard of Sarah Palin.
Then again, maybe Hillary would have been the nominee in 2008 or '12 and been elected president, because Captain McCain and Sergeant Hagel had screwed up the war so badly and the country was fed up? Who knows what scandal, misjudgement, or bad turn might have prevented four consecutive Republican White House victories between 2004 and 2016? Certainly something would have. Presidential politics is wildly unpredictable, as someone once said.
Initech
(100,062 posts)They can't win if they can't cheat.
TheFrenchRazor
(2,116 posts)Sunlei
(22,651 posts)please. The Obamas also, run vs Republicans.