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Fri Sep 15, 2017, 06:36 PM

Speaking of single payer, if any one believes that it is impossible or unrealistic

to think that it can be implemented in the US, you are not really making an evaluation of the issue, you are demonstrating that you are convinced that it is so.


At one point, people knew that man would never fly.

At one point, people knew that slaves would never be free.

At one point, people knew that women would never vote.

Until it happened. And then what would never happen became reality.

I could continue, but what we are really arguing about is if we have the political will to demand single payer. Single payer works better than the US system, ranked 37th by the way, of corporatized and profit centered medicine. That is a fact. So there is no need to invent anything to get to single payer.

Funding issues can be worked out, and have been worked out in many other countries, but only if there is the political will to do so.
What is covered can be worked out, but only if there is the political will to do so.

31 replies, 1546 views

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Arrow 31 replies Author Time Post
Reply Speaking of single payer, if any one believes that it is impossible or unrealistic (Original post)
guillaumeb Sep 2017 OP
leftofcool Sep 2017 #1
Eliot Rosewater Sep 2017 #2
guillaumeb Sep 2017 #4
Eliot Rosewater Sep 2017 #5
guillaumeb Sep 2017 #3
dembotoz Sep 2017 #6
guillaumeb Sep 2017 #8
Bradical79 Sep 2017 #9
Lee Adama Sep 2017 #7
guillaumeb Sep 2017 #10
Lee Adama Sep 2017 #11
guillaumeb Sep 2017 #19
Lee Adama Sep 2017 #22
guillaumeb Sep 2017 #23
Weekend Warrior Sep 2017 #25
guillaumeb Sep 2017 #26
Weekend Warrior Sep 2017 #29
Dyedinthewoolliberal Sep 2017 #24
Lee Adama Sep 2017 #28
Atticus Sep 2017 #12
Lee Adama Sep 2017 #13
Atticus Sep 2017 #14
Lee Adama Sep 2017 #15
Atticus Sep 2017 #17
stopbush Sep 2017 #16
Lee Adama Sep 2017 #18
Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #20
guillaumeb Sep 2017 #21
tinrobot Sep 2017 #27
Eko Sep 2017 #30
Rosa Luxemburg Sep 2017 #31

Response to guillaumeb (Original post)

Fri Sep 15, 2017, 06:40 PM

1. I will believe it when the GOP controlled Congress passes it and DT signs it

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Response to leftofcool (Reply #1)

Fri Sep 15, 2017, 06:43 PM

2. Wont be voted on in either house, not until Democrats are in charge.

What will be voted on is an attack on ACA.

Nothing wrong with working with this issue now and putting up bills that over time we make perfect, but we cant have nice things yet.

Because of what happened ... oops, not allowed to say

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #2)

Fri Sep 15, 2017, 06:45 PM

4. Agreed on tactics, as long as the end goal is a single payer system that will solve the problems

with healthcare in the US.

First, obviously, we need control of Congress. If we gain that, I believe Trump would be willing to sign a single payer bill if it gave him a win.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #4)

Fri Sep 15, 2017, 06:48 PM

5. Maybe he would. If every non deplorable votes and votes only for Dems,

no GOP would ever get to say boo about anything ever again

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Response to leftofcool (Reply #1)

Fri Sep 15, 2017, 06:43 PM

3. If that happens I will go out and buy a MAGA hat.

And promptly burn it.

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Response to guillaumeb (Original post)

Fri Sep 15, 2017, 06:54 PM

6. Cause all those other countries must just be brighter than us

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Response to dembotoz (Reply #6)

Fri Sep 15, 2017, 07:03 PM

8. Not likely.

But the US considers money to be speech. And the 1% certainly have a LOT of money to spend to convince people that what works in many other countries simply cannot work here.

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Response to dembotoz (Reply #6)

Fri Sep 15, 2017, 07:03 PM

9. They are on this issue -nt

 

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Response to guillaumeb (Original post)

Fri Sep 15, 2017, 07:02 PM

7. You are comparing tomatoes to transmissions.

 

None of the things you point to have any relation to the implementation of single payer in the United States. Your rhetoric outstripped the issue from your first line, and thus discussing this ay further with you is impossible.

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Response to Lee Adama (Reply #7)

Fri Sep 15, 2017, 07:03 PM

10. You sound quite convinced.

And it sounds to me as if you totally missed the point.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #10)

Fri Sep 15, 2017, 07:30 PM

11. I am quite convinced that there is no proposal on the table for single payer that will work here.

 

Not one.

And no, I completely see the point you attempted to make with rhetorical fancies that have no resemblance to reality.

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Response to Lee Adama (Reply #11)

Fri Sep 15, 2017, 09:07 PM

19. Define reality.

And perhaps we can discuss the issue.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #19)

Fri Sep 15, 2017, 09:18 PM

22. And that demand means there is no way for you and I to have a rational discussion on this issue.

 

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Response to Lee Adama (Reply #22)

Fri Sep 15, 2017, 09:22 PM

23. Well, yes, it does.

You keep focusing on reality and what is reality, so given that 3 people might have 3 different ideas of what constitutes reality, any real discussion depends on defining terms.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #23)

Fri Sep 15, 2017, 09:28 PM

25. They used an aggressive term meant to attack...

 

Just as you generated an op that doesn't match the reality of the discussion being held on DU. I believe that is what they are saying but aren't willing to take the time to lay out. I really don't blame them.

Point being that the foundation of your op is based in fiction with respect to the overall conversation being held on DU.

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Response to Weekend Warrior (Reply #25)

Fri Sep 15, 2017, 09:29 PM

26. Please point out the errors of my post.

I await your response.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #26)

Fri Sep 15, 2017, 09:59 PM

29. As with the other poster...

 

I'm not willing to debate the obvious. Not worth the time. If that is the starting point of a conversation a conversation isn't worth being had. I believe you were fully aware of this when you posted the op.

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Response to Lee Adama (Reply #11)

Fri Sep 15, 2017, 09:23 PM

24. Really?

Care to elaborate on what will work?

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Response to Dyedinthewoolliberal (Reply #24)

Fri Sep 15, 2017, 09:44 PM

28. That would require thousands of pages and multiple volumes.

 

The bill would have to be longer than the ACA was.

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Response to Lee Adama (Reply #7)

Fri Sep 15, 2017, 07:32 PM

12. My, my, my---you again? You've logged 75 posts in the FIVE DAYS you've been here

and, so far, you have been consistently officious and condescending to those with whom you disagree. Last night, the horse you rode to death was "If you are explaining, you are losing!" Seemed like you used that in every other post to "instruct" those who favor Bernie's Medicare for All bill.

Tonight, you respond to a respected DUer with over 15,000 posts and basically say that their thoughts about health care solutions are irrelevant and unworthy of a response.

To be sure, you are not the only one who posts here who adopts this attitude but, by and large, that's not the way most DUers treat each other. It may be the way they did things on the board you came from---wherever that was---, but insults and arrogance don't wear well here.

Why not argue with facts and reason rather than snark and snottiness?

If anyone thinks I've breached the TOS, by all means alert.

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Response to Atticus (Reply #12)

Fri Sep 15, 2017, 07:34 PM

13. I thought you said you'd not be speaking to me any more.

 

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Response to Lee Adama (Reply #13)

Fri Sep 15, 2017, 07:37 PM

14. You know that's not true. Why say it? nt

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Response to Atticus (Reply #14)

Fri Sep 15, 2017, 07:42 PM

15. "We're done here. "

 

Your words, not mine.

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Response to Lee Adama (Reply #15)

Fri Sep 15, 2017, 07:54 PM

17. That's it? What I said in another thread yesterday? That was my trying to end a

discussion in which you were getting "quite emotional". I did not say I would never speak to you again and no reasonable person would so interpret my comment.

But, don't worry---I won't be stalking you or responding to all your posts. I prefer civil discussion and those who can disagree without being disagreeable.

Not forever, but just for this thread: we're done.

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Response to Lee Adama (Reply #7)

Fri Sep 15, 2017, 07:51 PM

16. Agreed.

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Response to stopbush (Reply #16)

Fri Sep 15, 2017, 07:55 PM

18. Thanks

 

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Response to guillaumeb (Original post)

Fri Sep 15, 2017, 09:12 PM

20. It looks like we are about to lose the ACA... a new push to repeal the ACA...

The GOP senators will be bribed...McCain says he will support this new effort. We should have fought for the ACA...now we will get nothing ...no ACA and no single payer. It would take a super majority to pass Medical for all...we had a shot but blew by putting out this bill that has no chance of passing. Don't forget to tell those who will die without care how much more important it was to get people talking about single payer.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #20)

Fri Sep 15, 2017, 09:16 PM

21. A false premise.

First, nothing stops any GOP Congress member from introducing another Bill to repeal the ACA at any time. What has stopped them so far is massive citizen involvement and pressure in the form of phone calls, emails, and letter writing, as well as showing up at District meetings.

Second, if we concede that the ACA, aka Romney Care, an insurance company bailout, represents the ultimate in what is achievable, all else is an action to keep a system that can never solve the problems.

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Response to guillaumeb (Original post)

Fri Sep 15, 2017, 09:35 PM

27. It will happen if just BELIEVE it will happen...

Sounds a little simplistic to me.

I do think we can make progress on health care, but it will be politically messy and probably incremental.

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Response to guillaumeb (Original post)

Fri Sep 15, 2017, 10:04 PM

30. Well then.

I know humans will colonize the solar system and if every Democratic politician doesn't push for that over other things like health care and immigrants, our current space program and president Dump then we are dooming the human race to the fate of the dinosaurs. Extinct. Time is running out for our entire species.

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Response to guillaumeb (Original post)

Fri Sep 15, 2017, 10:19 PM

31. After a few months of Trumpcare people will be screaming

They will be looking for an alternative and 'Medicare for All' will be the best option but..

So where will the health insurance compnies go? They are not simply going away - and they hire thousands of workers. Will they merge with health entities like hospitals, nursing homes? Medicare for All won't just be a public option competing with health insurance companies. It will be it.

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