Speaking of single payer, if any one believes that it is impossible or unrealistic

[guillaumeb]

to think that it can be implemented in the US, you are not really making an evaluation of the issue, you are demonstrating that you are convinced that it is so.


At one point, people knew that man would never fly.

At one point, people knew that slaves would never be free.

At one point, people knew that women would never vote.

Until it happened. And then what would never happen became reality.

I could continue, but what we are really arguing about is if we have the political will to demand single payer. Single payer works better than the US system, ranked 37th by the way, of corporatized and profit centered medicine. That is a fact. So there is no need to invent anything to get to single payer.

Funding issues can be worked out, and have been worked out in many other countries, but only if there is the political will to do so.
What is covered can be worked out, but only if there is the political will to do so.

[leftofcool]

1. I will believe it when the GOP controlled Congress passes it and DT signs it

[Eliot Rosewater]

2. Wont be voted on in either house, not until Democrats are in charge.

What will be voted on is an attack on ACA.

Nothing wrong with working with this issue now and putting up bills that over time we make perfect, but we cant have nice things yet.

Because of what happened ... oops, not allowed to say

[guillaumeb]

4. Agreed on tactics, as long as the end goal is a single payer system that will solve the problems

with healthcare in the US.

First, obviously, we need control of Congress. If we gain that, I believe Trump would be willing to sign a single payer bill if it gave him a win.

[Eliot Rosewater]

5. Maybe he would. If every non deplorable votes and votes only for Dems,

no GOP would ever get to say boo about anything ever again

[guillaumeb]

3. If that happens I will go out and buy a MAGA hat.

And promptly burn it.

[dembotoz]

6. Cause all those other countries must just be brighter than us

[guillaumeb]

8. Not likely.

But the US considers money to be speech. And the 1% certainly have a LOT of money to spend to convince people that what works in many other countries simply cannot work here.

[Bradical79]

9. They are on this issue -nt

[Lee Adama]

7. You are comparing tomatoes to transmissions.

None of the things you point to have any relation to the implementation of single payer in the United States. Your rhetoric outstripped the issue from your first line, and thus discussing this ay further with you is impossible.

[guillaumeb]

10. You sound quite convinced.

And it sounds to me as if you totally missed the point.

[Lee Adama]

11. I am quite convinced that there is no proposal on the table for single payer that will work here.

Not one.

And no, I completely see the point you attempted to make with rhetorical fancies that have no resemblance to reality.

[guillaumeb]

19. Define reality.

And perhaps we can discuss the issue.

[Lee Adama]

22. And that demand means there is no way for you and I to have a rational discussion on this issue.

[guillaumeb]

23. Well, yes, it does.

You keep focusing on reality and what is reality, so given that 3 people might have 3 different ideas of what constitutes reality, any real discussion depends on defining terms.

[Weekend Warrior]

25. They used an aggressive term meant to attack...

Just as you generated an op that doesn't match the reality of the discussion being held on DU. I believe that is what they are saying but aren't willing to take the time to lay out. I really don't blame them.

Point being that the foundation of your op is based in fiction with respect to the overall conversation being held on DU.

[guillaumeb]

26. Please point out the errors of my post.

I await your response.

[Weekend Warrior]

29. As with the other poster...

I'm not willing to debate the obvious. Not worth the time. If that is the starting point of a conversation a conversation isn't worth being had. I believe you were fully aware of this when you posted the op.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

24. Really?

Care to elaborate on what will work?

[Lee Adama]

28. That would require thousands of pages and multiple volumes.

The bill would have to be longer than the ACA was.

[Atticus]

12. My, my, my---you again? You've logged 75 posts in the FIVE DAYS you've been here

and, so far, you have been consistently officious and condescending to those with whom you disagree. Last night, the horse you rode to death was "If you are explaining, you are losing!" Seemed like you used that in every other post to "instruct" those who favor Bernie's Medicare for All bill.

Tonight, you respond to a respected DUer with over 15,000 posts and basically say that their thoughts about health care solutions are irrelevant and unworthy of a response.

To be sure, you are not the only one who posts here who adopts this attitude but, by and large, that's not the way most DUers treat each other. It may be the way they did things on the board you came from---wherever that was---, but insults and arrogance don't wear well here.

Why not argue with facts and reason rather than snark and snottiness?

If anyone thinks I've breached the TOS, by all means alert.

[Lee Adama]

13. I thought you said you'd not be speaking to me any more.

[Atticus]

14. You know that's not true. Why say it? nt

[Lee Adama]

15. "We're done here. "

Your words, not mine.

[Atticus]

17. That's it? What I said in another thread yesterday? That was my trying to end a

discussion in which you were getting "quite emotional". I did not say I would never speak to you again and no reasonable person would so interpret my comment.

But, don't worry---I won't be stalking you or responding to all your posts. I prefer civil discussion and those who can disagree without being disagreeable.

Not forever, but just for this thread: we're done.

[stopbush]

16. Agreed.

[Lee Adama]

18. Thanks

[Demsrule86]

20. It looks like we are about to lose the ACA... a new push to repeal the ACA...

The GOP senators will be bribed...McCain says he will support this new effort. We should have fought for the ACA...now we will get nothing ...no ACA and no single payer. It would take a super majority to pass Medical for all...we had a shot but blew by putting out this bill that has no chance of passing. Don't forget to tell those who will die without care how much more important it was to get people talking about single payer.

[guillaumeb]

21. A false premise.

First, nothing stops any GOP Congress member from introducing another Bill to repeal the ACA at any time. What has stopped them so far is massive citizen involvement and pressure in the form of phone calls, emails, and letter writing, as well as showing up at District meetings.

Second, if we concede that the ACA, aka Romney Care, an insurance company bailout, represents the ultimate in what is achievable, all else is an action to keep a system that can never solve the problems.

[tinrobot]

27. It will happen if just BELIEVE it will happen...

Sounds a little simplistic to me.

I do think we can make progress on health care, but it will be politically messy and probably incremental.

[Eko]

30. Well then.

I know humans will colonize the solar system and if every Democratic politician doesn't push for that over other things like health care and immigrants, our current space program and president Dump then we are dooming the human race to the fate of the dinosaurs. Extinct. Time is running out for our entire species.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

31. After a few months of Trumpcare people will be screaming

They will be looking for an alternative and 'Medicare for All' will be the best option but..

So where will the health insurance compnies go? They are not simply going away - and they hire thousands of workers. Will they merge with health entities like hospitals, nursing homes? Medicare for All won't just be a public option competing with health insurance companies. It will be it.