what is being done to evacuate puerto rico?

[mopinko]

the military should be there, scooping up anyone they can.
we should commandeer cruise ships.

especially those poor folks that fled there after irma. can you imagine the trauma? i cant.

[Not Ruth]

1. They are refusing to evacuate per another thread that I cannot find

[dubyadiprecession]

52. I have been told by a Puerto Rican friend...

There's no problem, 2/3 of Puerto Rican's already live in the United States. The Island has been evacuating for decades now because of economic issues.

[Not Ruth]

58. I know 3 people who are Puerto Ricans

All 3 are millionaires, 2 live there, one has never been back (60 years) and says that he never will. None of them are anywhere near Puerto Rico at the moment.

[Wounded Bear]

2. Not likely...

especially given that they took in thousands of refugees from the other islands last week.

Puerto Rico is better prepared than the other islands anyway, at least in San Juan.

[malaise]

3. Have you seen the Caribbean sea this monring

around that area?

Most cruise ships have headed for safety ages ago.

[mopinko]

9. so send in the navy.

[obamanut2012]

45. Naval ships are not safe in those storms, either

They go to port or sail outside the storm.

[B2G]

4. They have 500 shelters open.

They cannot fly 3.5 million people off of the island.

[DesertRat]

5. With a population of 3.4 million

plus countless tourists it's not practical to evacuate them all.

[mopinko]

10. i'm sure not all of them would.

but those that fled there from irma, i cant even. i would be dying to get onto the mainland.

[spanone]

6. trump can't get high enough ratings ....so probably little is being done

[Brother Buzz]

7. Cruise ships are really lousy for evacuating people inland

[onenote]

8. Where do you think these ships should be taking evacuees?

First, there are 3.4 million people on Puerto Rico. So you're talking about a very large flotilla.

Second, where will these ships go, how long will it take them to get there, considering that sending ships out in the middle of tropical storm conditions isn't a particularly safe thing to do?

[JoeStuckInOH]

11. Well Maria hits tomorrow and Cruise ships only go about 30 knots.

with predicted 2AM landfall, that's only about 6.5 hours to get in and then 6.5 hours to get out - EXCLUDING time to actually get people on the ships.

At this point, cruise ships would have to already be within 250 miles. AND they would have to have available room. AND you'd be asking the US Navy to commandeer Cruise ships that are typically flagged out of foreign ports. I'm pretty sure commandeering foreign vessels is not a great idea. What if they don't comply (seeing as they're international waters)... do you start sinking noncompliant cruise ships?

Best that can be done is go in after and help clean up.

[clutterbox1830]

12. Sadly, most Americans don't know that Puerto Ricans or citizens of Virgin Islands are also Americans

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/americans-puerto-rico_us_573d4900e4b0aee7b8e90e32
The Economist-YouGov survey of 2,000 U.S. citizens aged 18 and older, conducted from May 6 to 9, found just 43 percent of Americans knew the citizenship status of Puerto Ricans. And 41 percent said the island’s residents were simply Puerto Rican, presumably assuming the territory is a sovereign country. The remaining 15 percent said they were unsure of nationality.

and this is probably why the lack of media coverage or interests are being reported on some networks.

[malaise]

29. Well you have a President who clearly doesn't know that Hawaii

is an American state so there.

[bdamomma]

33. also trump thinks climate change is a hoax

what an imbecile he is, geez we are talking human lives here!!! I love the islands I am glad I had an extended honeymoon some twenty something years ago to go to some islands where these horrible hurricanes ruined. So sad I hope they rebuild. I am NOT poo pooing on the states who got slammed but we have an ignorant POS in the WH who does not want to acknowledge climate change.

[malaise]

34. His presidency is a hoax

Truth will out

[atreides1]

35. Being born and raised in Hawaii

I have experienced many people on the mainland who fail to realize that Hawaii is an American state!

[malaise]

43. So imagine Puerto Rico and the US Virgin islands which

don't have statehood status? Puerto Rican folks are told to get out because they are illegals.

[Nay]

78. Hell, I had a coworker (a college grad, no less) who didn't know New Mexico was

an American state. I mentioned I was going to vacation there and she asked if I was afraid of the violence and not being able to speak the language . . . had to break it to her that it was in the United States. Boy howdy.

[greytdemocrat]

13. You want to see a

Cluster fuck??? That would do it.

[sarisataka]

14. Too late...

Even if the 1000-2000 ships were available to evacuate the island

[Hortensis]

15. Large-scale evacuations are disastrous events in themselves, Mopinko.

Even if it weren't impossible, there would be many deaths from trying to remove over 3 million people. I think the extremely, amazingly low death counts from these last 2 hurricanes illustrate how far we've come in preparation. We're doing good, and probably well over half of those who died would not have had they heeded the warnings being sent out by every available means. Individuals making their own choices.

Shelters for those with homes too risky to remain in are turning out to be very good options. They may also be very uncomfortable for those who come unprepared to camp in a gymnasium or whatever, but they're generally quite safe, and then it's past except for the mess waiting outside.

By the way, our neighbors who spent 3 days in a Florida shelter with their 2 small grandchildren said that shelter couldn't have been better run. It wasn't a bad experience at all.

[mopinko]

19. ok, i only know what the media says, and that could well be full of it, but

i can only compare the orderly evacuation of those who wanted to get out of miami and southern florida w the chaos of houston. i didnt see people being picked off their roofs in florida.
yeah, yeah, rita. but there were lessons learned as far as i can see. prioritizing keeping the gas stations opened, etc, made for a fairly orderly event. i havent heard about anyone caught on the highways like after rita.

[Hortensis]

21. Let's face it, the media search out problems and create them out of nothing

if need be. That's how they make money, and it's hugely, hugely distorting.

Would you turn on the TV to watch people chatting on their air mattresses in shelters? Exciting one-on-one interviews with people cooking dinner and ordering the kids to turn the TV down while they shelter safely at home? Sober newscaster explanations that 97% of experts agree there was NO important negligence in government planning and implementation, that many lessons learned in the last event had been acted on, more to come once budget becomes available, discussion of ways trash pickup might be better handled in future?

Lol.

[mopinko]

22. yeah, i know. why i qualified what i said, but

seems to me if there were hitches in the evacuation, they would have been screaming about that. i didnt see it. doesnt mean it wasnt reported, just that this news junkie didnt see it.

[TexasBushwhacker]

26. The situation with Harvey was different

We knew we would get lots of rain, but the path of the storm changed. It was originally predicted to travel west/northwest towards San Antonio and Austin. Once it made landfall in Corpus Christi it made a hard right, traveling north/northeast. Whereas we originally thought we would mainly be hit with the outer bands, it ended up going right over us and headed towards Louisiana and Arkansas. If we had mass evacuations prior to Harvey making landfall, most folks would have headed north, because it looked like it was headed west. The last thing you want is millions of people stranded on a highway as a slow moving storm passes over them.

Our mayor made the right call. There were people living in areas in the greater Houston area that were under voluntary or mandatory evacuation orders. The roads needed to be clear so that they COULD leave.

But the proof is in the numbers. 100 people died in the Hurricane Rita traffic jam, and the storm didn't even hit Houston. The state death toll for Harvey stands at about 80. Many, if not most, drowned when they drove into high water or tried to evacuate at night when it's hard to see the road conditions.

[Hortensis]

73. Very good points. The media train us to expect the worst of "the system"

because media needs controversy and drama to boost profits. Not because failure is normal, quite the contrary.

The image of crawling traffic as Harvey changed course and came at all those people who'd left shelter....

[malaise]

30. The real disaster will be in the Virgin Islands

they are running out of food and water

[mopinko]

31. yeah, they should have been rescued a couple days ago.

i guess the bottom line is that i am seriously frustrated that we dont seem to be able to deal w a crisis that takes days to unfold.
why the fuck is that?

[malaise]

32. Our government got a lot of our people out of St Martin via Antigua

but there are still JA citizens in that mess.
It is crazy in these parts and the Caribbean Sea is all churned up. Even our fishermen aren't going out.

[obamanut2012]

46. Because SOFL isn't Houston

We are prepared and know what to do, and those in the surge zone go stay with friends. The only evacuation you say was a panicked disordered one from people who moved her from teh Midwest or NE or somewhere, and have no idea what a 'cane is like. Shelter in place in the excellent Florida construction and eat Krimpets and fill the tubs with water, just in case. I didn't have power for five days. It sucked, and teh kittah stayed with a friend who had power, but we do what we always do and prepared and continued our lives, and helped one another before and after.

THAT is teh safe thing to do.

Again, the FL "evacuation" wasn't orderly: they had to have armed guards at gas stations protecting the gas trucks and people waiting in line. People were stuck in traffic that moved two miles in ten hours. In FL weather. It was insane. Esp. for a hurricane with such a wobbly, ever-changing track.

These OPs are not helpful tbh. They are also insulting imo.

[FloridaBlues]

51. Evacuation was horrific on the roads from Florida most gas stations were out of gas

The middle of the state still has little help food water and shelter for people but outside of Florida probably don't see it on tv.
I can't imagine what the islands are going through one week after Irma. Humanitarian crisis like the one we haven't seen.

[COLGATE4]

53. Thanks for sharing some reality!

My daughter left from just south of Tampa to Panama City Fla. Normally takes about 6 hours on I-75. Took her plus 2 small boys just over 16 hours with no stops. It's an experience she isn't anxious to repeat. The best course is to a) be prepared and b) hunker down in an appropriate structure.

[cwydro]

71. Thank you.

Good post.

[GulfCoast66]

16. I respect the passion...

But once again we have a post by a Midwest resident telling us how to handle hurricanes. Puerto Rico has even more experience with hurricanes and the possibility of evacuation than we Floridians.

There were post he last week wanting to evacuate all of Florida.

This quarterbacking from hundreds of miles away is getting worse with our sensational news media. We were all having friends and relatives from all over begging for us to evacuate Irma because if not we were ALL GOING TO DIE. Trying to explain evacuation strategies did nothing as the had been whipped into a frenzy of fear. You just cannot evacuate millions of
people, especially off an island.

Hell, we never lost power. Just some shingles.

I really have respect for you concen but it is a little overblown

Have a nice evening.

[mopinko]

18. i have peeps in fla, and i felt the same way. but

a lot of people did get out, and it went well. dont know the numbers, but it was a whole lot of people who didnt want to either drown or watch their homes blow away.

my peeps didnt have much trouble, either. but they are n of orlando, so they had good reason to believe that it would be diminished by the time it got there.

authorities in puerto rice are being quoted right now on msnbc saying "get out or die".
so i am going by what they are saying.

[GulfCoast66]

20. Sure. Same as the keys

Certain ares you must evacuate or risk death. Like the keys, the ones in PR still there when the storm hits will have made that decision themselves.
Have a nice day.

[mopinko]

23. ok, i am just asking where the option to evacuate is.

want to know that those who want to get out can, is all. not recommending a mandatory evacuation, just saying i am not seeing the resources there for those that want to get out.

[Brother Buzz]

24. The option is 'Head for the Hills, Brother'

Unlike flat Florida, Puerto Rico has local relief.

[mopinko]

17. i know how many people are there, i am not suggesting that they all leave

but i must point out that the evacuations in florida went pretty smoothly. compare to the rescue missions that were necessary in houston.

ok, cruise ships wont work. fine. send in the navy, the marines, helicopters and troop transport.

like florida, get those that want to/will go out.
it wont be all. fine. but everyone who gets out of there is one more person that wont have to be plucked off their roofs or sheltered for weeks while the trash gets picked up.

it is going to be devastating. a lot of the island will be uninhabitable for a long time.

what i cant get over is the trauma that the refugees from irma are going to go through.

[onenote]

25. Again, how are you going to control an evacuation situation

Florida evacuated over land.

Puerto Rico is an island. An island whose closest neighbors have been devastated by Irma and are going to be hit by Maria. Where will these military ships come from, where will they go? To Florida? We're talking about a journey that, once the ships get to Puerto Rico, load up a crowd of people (good luck controlling the crowd), and then heads somewhere safe, will take several days. Several days during which a major hurricane is bearing down on the Caribbean and Atlantic and whose exact path can't be predicted.

Clearly, you need to think this through a bit more.

[obamanut2012]

41. This is like FB posts I kept getting before Irma

People have no idea. Irma was my 15th, and won't be my last. It is what it is. We prepare and shelter in place and fill bathtubs with water. Just in case.

[obamanut2012]

40. They were no real evacuations in Florida

I live in SOFL. Some newbies from up North freaked out and fled up 95 like morons, and got trapped and ran out of gas and caused problems. The elderly, sick, etc. should have evacuated to the CLOSEST safe place: a friend's, family, a shelter, a hospital. That IS what evacuation means. Most people who evacuated, except for people who panicked and caused huge problems, went west of 95 and stayed with friends. Went over teh bridges in Miami and FTL and stayed with friends.

It even takes days for a very orderly evac of the Keys to happen, and it is never a total evac. You cannot force residents to leave.

HOuston isn't Florida -- we know how to prepare and are ready, and we do not have Houston's terrain or building codes. Most fo us live in Post-Andrew building or updated pre-Andrew buildings. Losing power for days sucks, but sheltering in place is safe. And, doesn't cost any money, except for extra batteries and Hurricane snacks, but chips and Krimpets and Medical MJ are not expensive.


FLORIDA DID NOT EVACUATE SOFL DID NOT EVACUATE

I understand your concern, but people who have no idea about thsi telling those of us who do to evacuate is maddening and annoying. Please do not do this. It is also so insulting. To people in SOFL, Puerto Rico, etc.

[Mariana]

55. I think Houston did pretty damn well, all things considered.

If everyone had panicked and tried to flee the area, it certainly would have been much, much worse.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

27. Even if ships and planes were available,

even if every single person went to the airport and the docks in an orderly fashion, evacuating some 3.5 million people would probably take weeks at best. Keep in mind that only a limited number of ships of any kind are going to be anywhere near Puerto Rico. Or available planes.

Commandeering cruise ships, most of which (as has been already pointed out) are registered in other countries, just wouldn't be a very good idea.

Unfortunately for Puerto Rico and every single island in the Caribbean, that's a part of the world where hurricanes occur. And no matter where you live there are going to be risks.

[mopinko]

28. again. i have said over and over that i dont think every single person

should evacuate. just those that want to.
and yes, at this point cruise ships are not an option, but navy ships should be/better be able to handle this storm at this point.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

48. In which case you are simply hoping

that the number of seats available will nicely equal or outnumber those wanting to evacuate.

Even with that, the time to have started evacuating would have been two or three days ago.

[mopinko]

50. tru dat.

why we are not on top of such a slow moving disaster boggles my mind.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

69. Slow moving?

Are you serious?

[onenote]

68. Maria was a fast developing storm

It wasn't until late morning on Saturday that the storm was classified as a "potential" tropical cyclone. It was classified as a moderate-range tropical storm (named Maria) that afternoon. It wasn't until Sunday that the National Hurricane center forecast that it would become a hurricane and noted that it could produce heavy rain in Puerto Rico. A hurricane watch (not warning) wasn't issued for Puerto Rico until Monday morning.

Today is Tuesday.

So its not particularly realistic to claim that the time to start evacuating people was Saturday. Or even Sunday.

[WinkyDink]

64. Naval ships aren't configured for hundreds of thousands of passengers. And they've been known to

sink.

[obamanut2012]

37. Yup, it is impossible

I live in SOFL, and was ready to scream at the misguided caring advance given me about leaving. WE don't leave. We prepare.

[mopinko]

57. just sayin that people who dont want to shelter in place

or who cant prepare, for whatever reason, should have a choice.
we should be there to help them. not the same as telling them they have to go.

[obamanut2012]

36. It is impossible to evacuate people like that

It annoyed me when people said it during Irma, and it annoys me now.

You are supposed to evacuate to nearest safety, which is what they are doing. They have over 500 shelters ready.

Newbies form the North who freaked during Irma and ran out of gas on 95 evacuating from FL created huge logistical and safety issues. Evacuate a few miles, to a friend's, family, a shelter as a last resort. It is impossible to evacuate millions, unless you have literally a month or more, and most of us are not foolish enough to leave. Because it is foolish. Irma was my 15th 'cane, and not my first Cat4.

The folks of Puerto Rico are safe, as long as they shelter in place outside of the surge zone. Safer there than in a strange place where they won't be able to return home.

I feel for the people in the Caribbean for other reasons, too: their main tourist season is coming up, and many are having their livelihood taken away.

[B2G]

38. Yep. Magical thinking at it's finest. nt

[mopinko]

39. yeah, for the umpeenth time, i am not suggesting evacuating all.

i get that. i really do.
i am just wondering if those that want to can. that's all.

and you are right about after the storm. that's the thing. what is there to stick around for? for a lot of people- nothing.

[obamanut2012]

44. It is their home

Even if their home gets destroyed, it is their HOME.

[mopinko]

56. i get that, but at the same time, back to my main point

is the people that have already been through irma. already lost their homes, and in a strange place already.

i'm not trying to be an ass. i'm saying we should be trying harder to help people. i'm trying to see your pov.

here's the thing, tho, about your past experience w 'canes-
climate change.
bigger storms, off the charts strength.
one after another.

if we had a prez who believed in science, i think a lot more resources would be put in on the front end.
why are we relying on the airlines to evacuate people, both now and before irma? and making money in the process? anyone who wanted to get out but didnt have the money for a plane ticket is screwn.
that's just not right, or smart.

i get people not wanting to evacuate. i'm not talking about that.

[onenote]

47. Here's a map. Again, where is this evacuation flotilla coming from and where is it going?

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/refresh/graphics_at5+shtml/175936.shtml?cone#contents

[MoonRiver]

42. Nobody is safe in a Cat 5 hurricane!

[FLPanhandle]

49. +1

It's always people who have never been through a hurricane who are now the "experts" on evacuations.

[mopinko]

60. i'm not claiming expertise, nor expressing an opinion about whether people should

evacuate. i'm just asking whether we are there to aid those who want to get out.

if you ask me, it is a lot better to help someone get out than it is to try to take care of them after the fact. but i would never argue w someone who wants to stay.
but you shouldnt have to have the dough for a plane ticket to get out.
we should be there for those people.
and again, the folks that ended up there after irma should get first dibs on seats on the planes/boats that can get them out, if that is what they want to do. they are not in their homes. they are in shelters. they deserve our help.
i'm just asking if they are getting it.

[TexasBushwhacker]

75. This!

"as long as they shelter in place outside of the surge zone"

Puerto Rico has been through many hurricanes. Buildings, including houses, are built to survive the winds. Of course the poor do not have hurricane proof housing, but there are many shelters. My boss has family in PR and their homes are like concrete bunkers. Their issue right now is no electricity.

The biggest worry is if it stalls over the mountains. Then they would have flash floods and mudslides. But it looks like it's moving along at a pretty good pace.

[roamer65]

54. God be with them all down there tonight.

[obliviously]

59. Mother nature, natural selection

Darwin at work.

[mopinko]

61. that's a pretty sad statement

from someone on a board for liberals.

[obliviously]

62. It's not what you hear in sunday school.

[mopinko]

63. no, the nuns taught me

there but for the grace of god go i.
i dont believe in god, so it's on me. and you. and all of us.

[obliviously]

66. We're on the Earth like ticks on a dog

Sometimes the dog has to shake some off.

[LanternWaste]

72. Irrelevance is often simplistic petulance.

Irrelevance is often simplistic petulance.

Human nature at work.

[WinkyDink]

65. Here's the bottom line: Not every natural catastrophe can be avoided.

[mopinko]

67. who said that?

we better get better at minimizing the impacts, because that is our future.

[WinkyDink]

74. Okay, substitute "minimizing the impact." "We better get better at" is a wish, a

pointless demand.

[whistler162]

70. Needd some numbers

Nautical miles from Puerto Rico ports to a safe and usable deep water port

Nautical miles a average ship can travel.

How long would it take for the ships to travel from where it was to Puerto Rico.

Time it would take to get Puerto Ricans to a deep water port and loaded onto the ships.

Time it would it take the ships to get from Puerto Rico to a usable deep water port.

How many ships are available for transportation in the area that can be used as transport.

How soon does Maria make land fall.

Which way is Maria heading after hitting Puerto Rico

[Eliot Rosewater]

76. Good thing climate change isnt real, otherwise we might be able to do something

to reduce the effects of these things, but that would take work, would be a headache.

[mopinko]

77. and cost money they already have plans for.

stuffing it in their pockets, that is.

[Fluke a Snooker]

79. We need George Soros and other billionaires to pay for their relocation to the US

The catch is we need them to move to swing states or congressional districts so they can actually VOTE, which they currently can't do in Puerto Rico for any significant US federal offices. Remember, they are as American and you or me, and the vast majority are progressive. If we can pay them to move and to have jobs or supplement their SNAP or other assistance, then we can guarantee a Progressive Congress and even a President next couple of elections.