General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSeth Abramson - Impeachment coming...
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/9/18/1699656/-Abramson-Tonight-s-news-inculpates-Donald-Trump-impeachment-comingStill thinks Mueller needs another flip besides Manafort (if he gets him to flip).
Thinks Congress got wind and why Grassley is still prepping a bill to prevent Trump from firing Mueller.
But are we really better off with Pence?
Blue_Adept
(6,399 posts)You don't not prosecute someone because someone else may or may not be better or worst. Justice like this is not conditional.
You go after those who have done wrong. Plain and simple. Otherwise you just enable it or worse in the future.
Mrs. Overall
(6,839 posts)Orrex
(63,200 posts)I've been saying the same thing for months on social media.
"But Pence!" they cry. "But Pence!"
But nothing. Impeach Trump, then worry about the rest. Run the whole fucking party out of office and jail them for life. But before any of that happens, impeach Trump.
Initech
(100,063 posts)If you get rid of these vampires, new ones will just replace them and it will just be same shit, different day. We need to go after the head vampires - the Koch Brothers, the Mercers, the Waltons. Who I'm sure are just as guilty of this as anybody. We knock them off and the rest of the vampires will fall just like that.
Orrex
(63,200 posts)Impale them on a hawthorn bush, dissolve them in holy water, and bury their ashes at a crossroads. Stuff them full of garlic while we're at it.
Money in politics is guaranteed to lead to corruption, and I suspect that this has been the case for at least the past five or six millennia.
whathehell
(29,067 posts)answer in a courteous manner, either.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)Me.
(35,454 posts)or held in check with all they have on him now.
ffr
(22,669 posts)Which is why they're stalwartly not beginning impeachment of the crimes committed by the president. They're all in on the same crimes against this country.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,109 posts)They know they dont belong there.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)While he's a true believer and his actual politics are worse than Trump, he does NOT have the charisma of Trump and will not bring the ratings to the news media like Trump. The media might instead focus on how horrific his policies are beyond healthcare.
Pence will also be wounded by his association with the disgraced Trump and likely would not run against in 2020.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)JI7
(89,247 posts)Which they are addicted to.
These right wing christian men love trump for what he said in the access hollywood tape.
mitch96
(13,890 posts)Ahhh but would tRump go quietly??? I believe he will circle all his military generals and hold a standoff...
m
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)and tried to circle the generals around him, I am not sure Kelly, Mattis, etc would stand with him.
Demsrule86
(68,543 posts)Weekend Warrior
(1,301 posts)At this point that question cannot be asked in honest. That is my opinion. Of course we would be better off with Pence.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)A guy who generally knows when to shut the fuck up, who can grasp a lot of policy, and who would care about being reelected wihtout obsessing over his popularity?
Pence is an evil little fucker, and terrifying in his own right, but still a better president than Trump even wants to be.
Weekend Warrior
(1,301 posts)It seems some don't think about how it would have to come about. There are a couple of ways and every one of them would be severely damaging to the GOP in the short run.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)...might prove malleable. Malleable through other means than donor money, I mean.
He probbly has the sense not to start a nuclear war, too.
Nay
(12,051 posts)head, under the condition that Pence not act like an evil little asshole once in office. Pence gets to be president, but he must act like a normal person for the duration.
LonePirate
(13,417 posts)Pence just doesn't command the respect, loyalty and support of the deplorables.
However, he's neck deep in the Russia scandal so if 45 goes down, Pence will also, possibly before 45.
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts). . . we're in some deep shit.
Glamrock
(11,795 posts)No doubt Hugh....
tymorial
(3,433 posts)bluepen
(620 posts)Pence will be Gerald Ford II.
Old Vet
(2,001 posts)mainer
(12,022 posts)It's likely that Pence was picked up on the SIGINT intercept of Manafort. Who knows what was captured during those conversations?
Sources in the Trump campaign say New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie indeed got tapped to be Trump's vice president, But Manafort duped him.
Then Trump's campaign chairman at the time, Paul Manafort, arranged for the GOP nominee to meet with Pence in Indianapolis on July 13. He then told Trump his plane was having mechanical problems so the GOP nominee had to stay in town another night.
Pence used the time to try to win the spot, while Trump's advisers warned the issues Christie would bring with the Bridgegate controversy would destroy the GOP nominee's presidential campaign.
It worked. The dumb ploy actually worked. Donald Trump picked his vice president because his own campaign manager sabotaged his flight plans to give Pence a night to make his case.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/10/30/1588817/-Trump-s-campaign-chair-tricked-him-into-meeting-Mike-Pence-by-pretending-Trump-s-jet-was-broken
asiliveandbreathe
(8,203 posts)The scandal also resulted in the indictment of 69 people, with trials or pleas resulting in 48 being found guilty, many of whom were Nixon's top administration officials. The affair began with the arrest of five men for breaking and entering into the DNC headquarters at the Watergate complex on Saturday, June 17, 1972.
And this..
"On 17th June 1972, 5 men were arrested for breaking into the headquarters of the Democratic National Committee... ...Nixon resigned on 9th August 1974."
Eli is a comin'
HAB911
(8,880 posts)Pence is a survivable event
JoeStuckInOH
(544 posts)I doubt he can scrape together a veto proof majority in a GOP controlled house and senate for a bill that removes power from a GOP president.
Thrill
(19,178 posts)I thought they would waste no time to jump at the opportunity to get Pence in there
MFM008
(19,804 posts)Forget the Pence crap.
Nothing is worse than the crazy bastard in there now.
NOTHING.
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)Pence might get something done. Trump is too much in his own way. As terrible as Trump is, he is accomplishing a very limited amount of the Republican Agenda. Pence is a more skilled politician and a "true believer" of the social agenda.
whathehell
(29,067 posts)He s at least sane and experienced.
Not Ruth
(3,613 posts)Priebus brought him in as a proven GOP manager (who actually knew how to run a campaign) and Trump fired Lewandowki. Manafort brought in Pence. So Pence is dirty.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/06/politics/trump-campaign-overhaul-manafort-lewandowski/index.html
Friction between Lewandowski and Manafort may have already had an impact on Trump's campaign.
Lewandowski last week fired Trump's Colorado state director, James Baker, just ahead of this weekend's state convention, where Cruz is expected to do very well. A source confirmed to CNN that the reason for the firing, first reported by Politico, was that Baker was working too closely with Manafort. (Baker did not respond to requests for comment on the firing.)
Campaign sources say Lewandowski's role is clearly being diminished. "Manafort has really kind of taken over, and started reorganizing the campaign," a knowledgeable GOP source said.
Trump campaign spokeswoman Hope Hicks disputed the reasoning behind the firing and said Lewandowski had no role in the dismissal.
The power struggle, however, is a delicate one.
Trump is still viewed as being fiercely loyal to Lewandowski, sources say. And Trump himself has said he's not going to "ruin a man's life" over allegations that Lewandowski roughed up former Breitbart reporter Michelle Fields at a campaign event in Florida last month. Lewandowski was charged with simple battery last week and the campaign insists he will be exonerated in court.
One reason why Lewandowski is staying for now: he still receives much of the credit for Trump's rise from reality TV star to Republican front-runner.
"He's a deeply loyal guy, maybe to a fault," one GOP source said of Trump.
Manafort does not believe Lewandowski or Trump political director Mike Glassner are up to the current campaign challenges, a source, who is a longtime friend and associate of Trump as well as an ally to Manafort, told CNN.
So Manafort is urging Trump to bring in more experienced hands, while not pushing for any formal shakeup. " Manafort) is sensitive to jamming Corey, who has a son-like relationship now with Donald Trump," the source said.
The source added, however, that Manafort would like to see a "gravitational" shift of some larger strategy roles.
Manafort consulted several veteran GOP hands late Tuesday night and Wednesday morning for input on what they think of the moment -- a rough week on the campaign trail capped by the Wisconsin loss -- and the challenges for Trump ahead. Those plans would typically be the purview of a campaign manager or top strategist, not a delegate team leader.
A veteran GOP player familiar with Manafort's effort to help Trump said Manafort believes there is a remote chance to get the 1,237 delegates needed to clinch the nomination on the first ballot -- but that the first ballot is his best shot to win.
"Manafort is an excellent floor organizer and he'll have a good team. His ability to succeed will depend on how close Trump is to 1,237 after California," this source said. "If it's 20-40 short, Manafort has a chance to get 1,237. The likelihood of success declines as that number rises."
Frustration, disconnect at the top
After the celebrity magnate railed against what he saw as unfair media coverage of his recent stumbles, one Trump source sounded puzzled. "By any measure it's the worst week of the campaign. By a lot."
The result of that disconnect, sources say, is what happened in Wisconsin Tuesday night.
While Trump thought he was going to pull off a "surprise" victory in the state's primary, all of the public polling and internal data inside his rival's campaigns were forecasting a blowout win for Ted Cruz. "I don't know who told him that," a campaign source said in frustration.
The billionaire was clearly frustrated during last week's trip to Washington where he visited with Republican National Committee officials over the delegate rules that will be crucial at the party's convention this summer.
"Trump was disappointed that his team was not up on the delegate count," a Trump source said.
Meeting with Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus, Trump and his team simply appeared unaware of how the delegate process worked, a Trump source said.
As Trump seemed taken aback in recent days by Cruz's aggressive efforts to peel away delegates in places like Louisiana, GOP strategists said such maneuvering should come as no surprise. A top Republican operative said unless Trump acts quickly, delegate raids in places like South Carolina, where the New York billionaire won handily, could come next.
Trump's adversaries see the campaign overhaul as coming too late in the process.
"Trump will not win the nomination on the first ballot, and any delegates he does get there will be his high water mark," said #NeverTrump-PAC strategist Rory Cooper. "As this becomes clearer and clearer, he's going to lash out, attempt to delegitimize the rules and get people focused on distractions."
whathehell
(29,067 posts)and if he is, and he's "gotched", I guess Ryan will be next in line.
My point is, while I detest the politics of both of these men, neither is a. Stupid. b. Inexperienced. c. A crazy loose cannon like Trump.
Not Ruth
(3,613 posts)They have been on him since 2006
awesomerwb1
(4,267 posts)there has got to be so much crap on the GOP that they'll fight desperately to save as many of their own as possible. It's party over country with these mofos.
And Grassley, trust him at your own risk. He's a snake.
janterry
(4,429 posts)That's enough to prevent Pence (or anyone else) from running too far with this agenda (at least I hope so!).
Me.
(35,454 posts)Think Christian Taliban....he'll be a different type of nightmare. If the Cons are still in charge of the House, then going down the list I think Hatch would be a better choice. Of course, if Dems take the House Nancy P. would be in line for the job.
peggysue2
(10,828 posts)Like dominoes. Though the major hit has to be on Trump himself because he's proven himself unfit and mentally unstable.
I suspect the compromised list of GOP members will be extensive because the they not only knew what was going on but accepted dark money from the Russians. Anything to win. From what I've read a number were caught up in incidental survellience--talking, planning, licking their chops about how clever they were.
Orange jumpsuits for the lot. They all better start practicing the frog march. Treasonous toads!
haveahart
(905 posts)The GOP brand is toast. At least the Democrats are not traitors. Are they?