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Seth Abramson - Impeachment coming... (Original Post) bagelsforbreakfast Sep 2017 OP
It doesn't fucking matter about Pence Blue_Adept Sep 2017 #1
+1000 Mrs. Overall Sep 2017 #3
That's 100% exactly correct Orrex Sep 2017 #12
I'm convinced they're like vampires. Initech Sep 2017 #22
Hey, I'm down with that Orrex Sep 2017 #25
It doesn't fucking hurt to drop the hostility and whathehell Sep 2017 #30
Amen. Nt joeybee12 Sep 2017 #38
Pence Will Be Next Me. Sep 2017 #2
Yep! And it trickles down the line to other KGOP members ffr Sep 2017 #19
Every single gop in the line of succession needs to step down, if they are patriots. Eliot Rosewater Sep 2017 #29
YES - Pence will be better than Trump NewJeffCT Sep 2017 #4
This! smirkymonkey Sep 2017 #13
Also the truth is most right wing religious men don't want him since they want their porn JI7 Sep 2017 #16
YES - Pence will be better than Trump mitch96 Sep 2017 #17
If Trump was impeached NewJeffCT Sep 2017 #18
Yes. Bad as Pence is Trump is nuts. Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #5
"But are we really better off with Pence?" Weekend Warrior Sep 2017 #6
"Fuck, yeah." Orsino Sep 2017 #21
On top of that. Weekend Warrior Sep 2017 #23
A Pence at least nominally chastened by association with an impeached running-mate... Orsino Sep 2017 #24
Mueller and his team may also be able to hold some incriminating shit over Pence's Nay Sep 2017 #34
Pence is as bad as, probably worse than 45 is, because he understands policy and process. LonePirate Sep 2017 #7
If Indiana's roads are any indication of how he governs . . . HughBeaumont Sep 2017 #8
Heh heh heh Glamrock Sep 2017 #39
Yes tymorial Sep 2017 #9
By the time this happens, Dems will have the House. bluepen Sep 2017 #10
Wishful thinking my friend, I would like to think so though. Were so divided(dems) now. Old Vet Sep 2017 #37
Pence was Manafort's pick, wasn't he? mainer Sep 2017 #11
Yes Me. Sep 2017 #40
You know - I am old enough to remember Watergate...from Nixon to Cox to Dean... asiliveandbreathe Sep 2017 #14
Like Bill Maher said HAB911 Sep 2017 #15
"...prepping a bill to prevent Trump from firing Mueller." ? He knows trump has to sign it, right? JoeStuckInOH Sep 2017 #20
I actually cant believe how protective theyve been of Trump Thrill Sep 2017 #26
Really MFM008 Sep 2017 #27
Answer to your question - NO HopeAgain Sep 2017 #28
We are definitely better with Pence.. whathehell Sep 2017 #31
I forgot how Manafort got on the campaign Not Ruth Sep 2017 #36
He may be dirty whathehell Sep 2017 #42
Manafort would have flipped already if he was going to Not Ruth Sep 2017 #32
Before it gets to impeachment (if ever) awesomerwb1 Sep 2017 #33
If there is an impeachment, the republicas will be hobbled. janterry Sep 2017 #35
Pence Is A Dominionist Me. Sep 2017 #41
Pence is going down with the rest peggysue2 Sep 2017 #43
Pence and Sessions will both be going down or at least they will be neutered. haveahart Sep 2017 #44
Manafort will not flip, he was indicted dozens of times last week Not Ruth Sep 2017 #45

Blue_Adept

(6,399 posts)
1. It doesn't fucking matter about Pence
Wed Sep 20, 2017, 10:00 AM
Sep 2017

You don't not prosecute someone because someone else may or may not be better or worst. Justice like this is not conditional.

You go after those who have done wrong. Plain and simple. Otherwise you just enable it or worse in the future.

Orrex

(63,200 posts)
12. That's 100% exactly correct
Wed Sep 20, 2017, 10:25 AM
Sep 2017

I've been saying the same thing for months on social media.

"But Pence!" they cry. "But Pence!"

But nothing. Impeach Trump, then worry about the rest. Run the whole fucking party out of office and jail them for life. But before any of that happens, impeach Trump.

Initech

(100,063 posts)
22. I'm convinced they're like vampires.
Wed Sep 20, 2017, 12:23 PM
Sep 2017

If you get rid of these vampires, new ones will just replace them and it will just be same shit, different day. We need to go after the head vampires - the Koch Brothers, the Mercers, the Waltons. Who I'm sure are just as guilty of this as anybody. We knock them off and the rest of the vampires will fall just like that.

Orrex

(63,200 posts)
25. Hey, I'm down with that
Wed Sep 20, 2017, 12:36 PM
Sep 2017

Impale them on a hawthorn bush, dissolve them in holy water, and bury their ashes at a crossroads. Stuff them full of garlic while we're at it.

Money in politics is guaranteed to lead to corruption, and I suspect that this has been the case for at least the past five or six millennia.

ffr

(22,669 posts)
19. Yep! And it trickles down the line to other KGOP members
Wed Sep 20, 2017, 12:02 PM
Sep 2017

Which is why they're stalwartly not beginning impeachment of the crimes committed by the president. They're all in on the same crimes against this country.

Eliot Rosewater

(31,109 posts)
29. Every single gop in the line of succession needs to step down, if they are patriots.
Wed Sep 20, 2017, 12:41 PM
Sep 2017

They know they dont belong there.

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
4. YES - Pence will be better than Trump
Wed Sep 20, 2017, 10:03 AM
Sep 2017

While he's a true believer and his actual politics are worse than Trump, he does NOT have the charisma of Trump and will not bring the ratings to the news media like Trump. The media might instead focus on how horrific his policies are beyond healthcare.

Pence will also be wounded by his association with the disgraced Trump and likely would not run against in 2020.

JI7

(89,247 posts)
16. Also the truth is most right wing religious men don't want him since they want their porn
Wed Sep 20, 2017, 11:10 AM
Sep 2017

Which they are addicted to.

These right wing christian men love trump for what he said in the access hollywood tape.

mitch96

(13,890 posts)
17. YES - Pence will be better than Trump
Wed Sep 20, 2017, 11:27 AM
Sep 2017

Ahhh but would tRump go quietly??? I believe he will circle all his military generals and hold a standoff...
m

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
18. If Trump was impeached
Wed Sep 20, 2017, 11:52 AM
Sep 2017

and tried to circle the generals around him, I am not sure Kelly, Mattis, etc would stand with him.

 

Weekend Warrior

(1,301 posts)
6. "But are we really better off with Pence?"
Wed Sep 20, 2017, 10:12 AM
Sep 2017

At this point that question cannot be asked in honest. That is my opinion. Of course we would be better off with Pence.

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
21. "Fuck, yeah."
Wed Sep 20, 2017, 12:18 PM
Sep 2017

A guy who generally knows when to shut the fuck up, who can grasp a lot of policy, and who would care about being reelected wihtout obsessing over his popularity?

Pence is an evil little fucker, and terrifying in his own right, but still a better president than Trump even wants to be.

 

Weekend Warrior

(1,301 posts)
23. On top of that.
Wed Sep 20, 2017, 12:24 PM
Sep 2017

It seems some don't think about how it would have to come about. There are a couple of ways and every one of them would be severely damaging to the GOP in the short run.

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
24. A Pence at least nominally chastened by association with an impeached running-mate...
Wed Sep 20, 2017, 12:30 PM
Sep 2017

...might prove malleable. Malleable through other means than donor money, I mean.

He probbly has the sense not to start a nuclear war, too.

Nay

(12,051 posts)
34. Mueller and his team may also be able to hold some incriminating shit over Pence's
Wed Sep 20, 2017, 12:53 PM
Sep 2017

head, under the condition that Pence not act like an evil little asshole once in office. Pence gets to be president, but he must act like a normal person for the duration.

LonePirate

(13,417 posts)
7. Pence is as bad as, probably worse than 45 is, because he understands policy and process.
Wed Sep 20, 2017, 10:17 AM
Sep 2017

Pence just doesn't command the respect, loyalty and support of the deplorables.

However, he's neck deep in the Russia scandal so if 45 goes down, Pence will also, possibly before 45.

mainer

(12,022 posts)
11. Pence was Manafort's pick, wasn't he?
Wed Sep 20, 2017, 10:21 AM
Sep 2017

It's likely that Pence was picked up on the SIGINT intercept of Manafort. Who knows what was captured during those conversations?

Me.

(35,454 posts)
40. Yes
Wed Sep 20, 2017, 03:24 PM
Sep 2017

“Sources in the Trump campaign say New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie indeed got tapped to be Trump's vice president, But Manafort duped him.

Then Trump's campaign chairman at the time, Paul Manafort, arranged for the GOP nominee to meet with Pence in Indianapolis on July 13. He then told Trump his plane was having mechanical problems so the GOP nominee had to stay in town another night.

Pence used the time to try to win the spot, while Trump's advisers warned the issues Christie would bring with the Bridgegate controversy would destroy the GOP nominee's presidential campaign.

It worked. The dumb ploy actually worked. Donald Trump picked his vice president because his own campaign manager sabotaged his flight plans to give Pence a night to make his case.”

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/10/30/1588817/-Trump-s-campaign-chair-tricked-him-into-meeting-Mike-Pence-by-pretending-Trump-s-jet-was-broken

asiliveandbreathe

(8,203 posts)
14. You know - I am old enough to remember Watergate...from Nixon to Cox to Dean...
Wed Sep 20, 2017, 10:50 AM
Sep 2017

The scandal also resulted in the indictment of 69 people, with trials or pleas resulting in 48 being found guilty, many of whom were Nixon's top administration officials. The affair began with the arrest of five men for breaking and entering into the DNC headquarters at the Watergate complex on Saturday, June 17, 1972.

And this..

"On 17th June 1972, 5 men were arrested for breaking into the headquarters of the Democratic National Committee... ...Nixon resigned on 9th August 1974."

Eli is a comin'

 

JoeStuckInOH

(544 posts)
20. "...prepping a bill to prevent Trump from firing Mueller." ? He knows trump has to sign it, right?
Wed Sep 20, 2017, 12:11 PM
Sep 2017

I doubt he can scrape together a veto proof majority in a GOP controlled house and senate for a bill that removes power from a GOP president.

Thrill

(19,178 posts)
26. I actually cant believe how protective theyve been of Trump
Wed Sep 20, 2017, 12:39 PM
Sep 2017

I thought they would waste no time to jump at the opportunity to get Pence in there

HopeAgain

(4,407 posts)
28. Answer to your question - NO
Wed Sep 20, 2017, 12:40 PM
Sep 2017

Pence might get something done. Trump is too much in his own way. As terrible as Trump is, he is accomplishing a very limited amount of the Republican Agenda. Pence is a more skilled politician and a "true believer" of the social agenda.

 

Not Ruth

(3,613 posts)
36. I forgot how Manafort got on the campaign
Wed Sep 20, 2017, 12:58 PM
Sep 2017

Priebus brought him in as a proven GOP manager (who actually knew how to run a campaign) and Trump fired Lewandowki. Manafort brought in Pence. So Pence is dirty.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/06/politics/trump-campaign-overhaul-manafort-lewandowski/index.html

Friction between Lewandowski and Manafort may have already had an impact on Trump's campaign.
Lewandowski last week fired Trump's Colorado state director, James Baker, just ahead of this weekend's state convention, where Cruz is expected to do very well. A source confirmed to CNN that the reason for the firing, first reported by Politico, was that Baker was working too closely with Manafort. (Baker did not respond to requests for comment on the firing.)
Campaign sources say Lewandowski's role is clearly being diminished. "Manafort has really kind of taken over, and started reorganizing the campaign," a knowledgeable GOP source said.
Trump campaign spokeswoman Hope Hicks disputed the reasoning behind the firing and said Lewandowski had no role in the dismissal.
The power struggle, however, is a delicate one.
Trump is still viewed as being fiercely loyal to Lewandowski, sources say. And Trump himself has said he's not going to "ruin a man's life" over allegations that Lewandowski roughed up former Breitbart reporter Michelle Fields at a campaign event in Florida last month. Lewandowski was charged with simple battery last week and the campaign insists he will be exonerated in court.
One reason why Lewandowski is staying for now: he still receives much of the credit for Trump's rise from reality TV star to Republican front-runner.
"He's a deeply loyal guy, maybe to a fault," one GOP source said of Trump.
Manafort does not believe Lewandowski or Trump political director Mike Glassner are up to the current campaign challenges, a source, who is a longtime friend and associate of Trump as well as an ally to Manafort, told CNN.
So Manafort is urging Trump to bring in more experienced hands, while not pushing for any formal shakeup. &quot Manafort) is sensitive to jamming Corey, who has a son-like relationship now with Donald Trump," the source said.
The source added, however, that Manafort would like to see a "gravitational" shift of some larger strategy roles.
Manafort consulted several veteran GOP hands late Tuesday night and Wednesday morning for input on what they think of the moment -- a rough week on the campaign trail capped by the Wisconsin loss -- and the challenges for Trump ahead. Those plans would typically be the purview of a campaign manager or top strategist, not a delegate team leader.
A veteran GOP player familiar with Manafort's effort to help Trump said Manafort believes there is a remote chance to get the 1,237 delegates needed to clinch the nomination on the first ballot -- but that the first ballot is his best shot to win.
"Manafort is an excellent floor organizer and he'll have a good team. His ability to succeed will depend on how close Trump is to 1,237 after California," this source said. "If it's 20-40 short, Manafort has a chance to get 1,237. The likelihood of success declines as that number rises."
Frustration, disconnect at the top
After the celebrity magnate railed against what he saw as unfair media coverage of his recent stumbles, one Trump source sounded puzzled. "By any measure it's the worst week of the campaign. By a lot."
The result of that disconnect, sources say, is what happened in Wisconsin Tuesday night.
While Trump thought he was going to pull off a "surprise" victory in the state's primary, all of the public polling and internal data inside his rival's campaigns were forecasting a blowout win for Ted Cruz. "I don't know who told him that," a campaign source said in frustration.
The billionaire was clearly frustrated during last week's trip to Washington where he visited with Republican National Committee officials over the delegate rules that will be crucial at the party's convention this summer.
"Trump was disappointed that his team was not up on the delegate count," a Trump source said.
Meeting with Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus, Trump and his team simply appeared unaware of how the delegate process worked, a Trump source said.
As Trump seemed taken aback in recent days by Cruz's aggressive efforts to peel away delegates in places like Louisiana, GOP strategists said such maneuvering should come as no surprise. A top Republican operative said unless Trump acts quickly, delegate raids in places like South Carolina, where the New York billionaire won handily, could come next.
Trump's adversaries see the campaign overhaul as coming too late in the process.
"Trump will not win the nomination on the first ballot, and any delegates he does get there will be his high water mark," said #NeverTrump-PAC strategist Rory Cooper. "As this becomes clearer and clearer, he's going to lash out, attempt to delegitimize the rules and get people focused on distractions."

whathehell

(29,067 posts)
42. He may be dirty
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 05:36 PM
Sep 2017

and if he is, and he's "gotched", I guess Ryan will be next in line.

My point is, while I detest the politics of both of these men, neither is a. Stupid. b. Inexperienced. c. A crazy loose cannon like Trump.



awesomerwb1

(4,267 posts)
33. Before it gets to impeachment (if ever)
Wed Sep 20, 2017, 12:50 PM
Sep 2017

there has got to be so much crap on the GOP that they'll fight desperately to save as many of their own as possible. It's party over country with these mofos.

And Grassley, trust him at your own risk. He's a snake.

 

janterry

(4,429 posts)
35. If there is an impeachment, the republicas will be hobbled.
Wed Sep 20, 2017, 12:57 PM
Sep 2017

That's enough to prevent Pence (or anyone else) from running too far with this agenda (at least I hope so!).

Me.

(35,454 posts)
41. Pence Is A Dominionist
Wed Sep 20, 2017, 03:29 PM
Sep 2017

Think Christian Taliban....he'll be a different type of nightmare. If the Cons are still in charge of the House, then going down the list I think Hatch would be a better choice. Of course, if Dems take the House Nancy P. would be in line for the job.

peggysue2

(10,828 posts)
43. Pence is going down with the rest
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 05:58 PM
Sep 2017

Like dominoes. Though the major hit has to be on Trump himself because he's proven himself unfit and mentally unstable.

I suspect the compromised list of GOP members will be extensive because the they not only knew what was going on but accepted dark money from the Russians. Anything to win. From what I've read a number were caught up in incidental survellience--talking, planning, licking their chops about how clever they were.

Orange jumpsuits for the lot. They all better start practicing the frog march. Treasonous toads!

 

haveahart

(905 posts)
44. Pence and Sessions will both be going down or at least they will be neutered.
Thu Sep 21, 2017, 06:01 PM
Sep 2017

The GOP brand is toast. At least the Democrats are not traitors. Are they?

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