It is really embarrassing to read the xenophobic posts on DU,

[Ms. Toad]

ridiculing Melania Trump's accent.

I spent last night working with a dozen international students who are striving to obtain an advanced degree at my university. Two of them are fluent and have very little accent; I sometimes struggle to understand what the others are saying because of their accents, or the sentence structure that mimics the sentence structure of their first language. But my struggle is nothing compared to their struggle to master concepts that are challenging for US students to master, in a language in which they do not yet think fluently, and to live in a country where they are disconnected from anyone and anything familiar.

Then I come here this afternoon and see Melania ridiculed with comments like, "hoosband," "can't understand a word she's saying," and "in what language." Not the first time it's happened, but the ridicule of someone who sounds like my students who are doing something I wouldn't attempt in a million years is particularly striking today.

Yes, she is an odious human being. But it has nothing with her country of origin, or how fluently or accent-freely she speaks English.

[spanone]

1. i'll just ridicule her choices.

[Ms. Toad]

4. Have at it - you'll get no argument from me.

When she choose to inset herself into the political fray, the content of what she says or what she does are fair game.

I'm only troubled when we ridicule her for how her voice sounds.

[spanone]

11. 👍🏼

[Hortensis]

63. Me neither, BUT not ALL the douchebags posting here are going to be our own.

We are at war, and DU is a battleground.

How better to make Democrats look no better to visitors than the mean right than to post the same sort of nastiness that right wing forums are soaked in?

[Ms. Toad]

76. A fair number of the xenophobic, homophobic, misogynistic ones

who proclaim their right to use whatever they want to bash Trump, or that they are merely pointing out the hipocrisy, are - unfortunately, homegrown.

[JoeOtterbein]

2. Agreed We don't make any friends by mocking others. It just looks childish and petty.

[SusanaMontana41]

21. Yup. Just look at her husband. nt

[Fatemah2774]

157. I agree

Mocking others is not ever funny.

And while we are on it, Ann Coulter should not be referred to as Mann. It suggests her traits are similar to MTF transgender women because of her Adam's apple or large hands. We are better than that. We can win using our arguments not our insults.

[Solly Mack]

3. Her accent is not the problem, I agree.

[Scarsdale]

53. She has been here

over 25 years. Really she should speak more understandably than she does. I lived in base housing with German wives who learned English from watching TV, and they spoke better English than Mrs. tRump. Maybe she spends too much time with her parents, who travel with her and live at tRump Tower, and Florida?

[Solly Mack]

118. I have a cousin from Spain who has been in America 40 years and still speaks English

with an accent.

She speaks Spanish, Italian, and English. She speaks primarily Spanish at home with her husband, her children, and her grandchildren - all raised in America. She speaks English with those who can't speak either Spanish or Italian.

Some people never lose their accent.

In the grand scheme of Melania Trump's offenses when she opens her mouth, her accent doesn't even register. The content of what she is saying does.

[cannabis_flower]

167. My husband has been here 20 years

8 of them with me and still has a very strong accent and still doesn't speak very good English. I think his English has improved quite a bit but because he works with people who speak Spanish all day and works a lot he's never taken English classes. We do watch a lot of television in English and that helps. We also watch TV, mostly news in Spanish and that helps me learn Spanish.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

5. It's very, very difficult for an adult to shake the accent of their native language.

Some of the criticism might arise from the fact that Trump's intense and irrational loathing of immigrants doesn't seem to extend to attractive white women who are (or at least were) willing to do him. But picking on Melania's accent is stupid. There are a lot of other things she deserves to be picked on about, not the least of which is her choice of husbands.

I, an older person, am trying to learn another foreign language (Norwegian), and while the grammar and vocabulary are not especially difficult the pronunciation is. I can hear what's not quite about my pronunciation, but I can't make my mouth create exactly the right sounds. I'll never lose my accent.

[fierywoman]

16. I was in Italy for many years, rarely speaking English, speaking Italian

when an Italian I was helping with English casually informed me that they put their tongues by their LOWER teeth, not the upper as we do. Suddenly my spoken Italian vastly improved. Check out if something similar goes on in Norwegian, and, very best of luck for the new language!

[ProfessorGAC]

30. The Guys In Milan That i Knew. . .

. . .told me that i spoke italian like i was "from the bush". They said i was an italian hillbilly.

For me it was a combination, i think. First, i was american adult who probably spoke like a 4 year old, and second everything i learned when i was a kid was either Calabrese or Sicilian. So, my grammar and pronunciation is likely awful in northern italy

[fierywoman]

33. That's funny!

I moved to Florence from Mexico City, and that year I was "converting" my Spanish to Italian, and there was one time I conjugated "hablar" using Italian conjugations... the Florentines nicknamed me "La Messicana." I was playing in the opera, and all kinds of exotic words would fly over the pit and I'd ask my stand partner what it meant ("squaldrina" from Il Trittico; "cazzorello!" yelled by the diva at the conductor.) My partner would sigh, "Ai, Messicana, do I REALLY have to tell you what that means?"
Do you watch "Montalbano"? It's got tons of Sicilian and lots of new words I'd never heard before, aside from being molto simpatico.
And the Italian dubbed version of Gone With the Wind (Via Col Vento) has the Mamie speaking in a southern Italian ... everyone else is northern.

[LittleGirl]

40. I was gluted to

Montabano! I loved that show. I wished they would continue it and show it over here in the states. Loved it.

[fierywoman]

75. I got it out of my wonderful library. Have you seen The Young Montalbano?

[LittleGirl]

124. Yes, that's the one I meant

I forgot there was an older one. I meant the Young Montalbano. Funny and good entertainment. I'm not a big fan of reading text but it was worth it for that show.

[fierywoman]

126. The older one has about 20 episodes. You can also read

the books by Camillero in English. I never wanted it to stop so I've read most of the books, too. The actor in the "old" Montalbano is as captivating as the young one (although the young one is a bit cuter!)

[LittleGirl]

129. yeah, he's a looker

but I loved the story line. The guys at the police station were hysterical.
I loved watching it because of the antics of their method of speech.
Italians (I'm part Italian) are interesting to watch. Their hand gestures etc.
My mother says I can't talk without my hands. She's not Italian, my dad was full blooded.

[fierywoman]

144. There are the same characters at the police station, just older

(played by different actors, I think.) The story line just keeps getting more and more profound. Check it out! (How wonderful to be part Italian!)

[ProfessorGAC]

46. Well, I'll Have To Pass On GWTW

I hate that movie. In any language.

I'll have to check out Montalbano, though. Thanks for the tip.

[JustAnotherGen]

38. My husband is from Calabria

The dialecto! They are - they are the hillbillies of Italy!

[flamingdem]

120. Maybe we should have an Italian group here on DU

Devo fare practica

[LittleGirl]

41. Amazing realization.

Thank you for that. I will remember it. lower teeth, not upper. interesting.

[raven mad]

17. Exactly. I grew up in an Irish Catholic family -

and we kept the Gaelic for a while while the grandfolks were alive. By the time I started school, though, I'd lost it all just by being in a very diverse neighborhood (near Cape Canaveral).

Now? I couldn't speak a word if I tried hard.

Listen to what is SAID, not WHO is saying it or with what language. Melania loses big time there (not her accent, her sense of superiority and her ignorance, lies and pretence show through).

[DFW]

36. I can understand Norwegian. It's indeed not complicated grammatically

Actually, there are two official versions of it, but they are not radically dissimilar. Scandinavian languages are not especially complicated for an English-speaker to learn (I learned Swedish while in college, and the professor never spoke a word of English from day one). My Swedish is pretty good, but I still sometimes get told, "you have lost most of your accent, but I can still tell that you're Norwegian." Not bad for a dumb Southerner like me. But don't worry about having an accent. Just be thankful you're not trying to learn Danish. It reads very similar to Norwegian, but is pronounced as if trying to speak Chinese through a mouthful of mashed potatoes.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

47. I am learning the version that's taught as the "formal" language,

Bokmål. The vocabulary is fairly German-ish, but the grammar is more like English, with a few weird exceptions. Since I took German for years in high school and college and continue to use it in music (Bach, et al.), it's still pretty familiar and is my "default" foreign language. So when I blank on a Norwegian word I might fill in with an equivalent German one without catching the error, and my pronunciation also tends to be a bit German. Mann in German (man), for example, is not pronounced exactly like mann (man) in Norwegian; the a vowel is less forward and bright than in German. And then there are the "tones," almost like Chinese. Bonder (farmers) and bonner (beans) are pronounced the same except that there is a flat tone for bonder (the d isn't pronounced) and a rising tone on the second syllable of bonner. Subtle stuff like that is tough to master for an adult; so as far as I'm concerned Melania gets a break. But languages are fascinating. I might try Icelandic next.

[DFW]

49. Icelandic is a hoot

Sort of like the Scandinavian equivalent of living spoken Latin. I wish I had the time to bother. The grammar is fairly straightforward once you get used to adding definite articles onto the end of a word (ett hus= a house, huset= the house).

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

51. Icelandic is what Norwegian was a thousand years ago

which is why it intrigues me. Norwegian still has the same definite/indefinite forms: en stol (a chair); stolen (the chair), stoler (chairs), stolene (the chairs). But Icelandic still has a lot of of conjugations and declensions, like Latin, that bit the dust centuries ago in the other Scandinavian languages. But I learned Latin so I figure I can learn Icelandic.

[DFW]

54. Latin is the entry port to declined languages alright

I only took two years of it in high school, but when I started with Russian, with its six cases, I was a step ahead of anyone else in the class who had not had Latin. Icelandic should be a breeze for you.

And Iceland is one VERY cool place to visit! If you manage to learn some of the language, be SURE to make use of it on location!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

56. My Dad made me take Latin.

He said I couldn't be an educated person without it. I have always appreciated that advice, but I don't think many high schools even offer it any more, unfortunately.

[DFW]

65. It was compulsory in the high school I was attending at the time

I have no idea if they still require it, though their website says they offer it. I see German is no longer offered, but Chinese (presumably Mandarin) now is. I understand the decision, even being married to a German, living in Germany and speaking German at home. Here in central Europe, German is THE second language, but worldwide, Mandarin has to have trumped German in importance. Even last Sunday when arriving at my hotel in Vienna, my US colleague and I shared a ride up to our floor with a family from China. We let them and their small children exit first, and they said, "thank you" in English. They turned around with their mouths agape when I said "you're welcome" in Mandarin. It appears they still consider most of us incapable of learning it--which is why, of course, we should.

[KitSileya]

155. Indeed! The main goal is to communicate - if her accent doesn't hinder that,

she doesn't have a problem. I teach English as a foreign language (in Norway!) and that's what I always tell my students. Communication-hindering pronunciation mistakes you need to work on, but if it's just a different flavor of vowel, like 'hoosband' for husband, it's not going to be a big deal.

Unfortunately, too many people on the left feel it's ok to criticize people (women!) on the right in a way that is racist, nativist, sexist, homophobic - you have it. It's like they think that it doesn't hurt anybody but those criticized, when that is far from the truth.

[The_Casual_Observer]

6. I'd rather just ignore the whole spectacle.

The person and the message is hollow and meaningless no matter the delivery.

[SaschaHM]

7. I feel like this is a conversation that we've had to have far too often on DU regarding the Trump

administration and folks that support them from posters purposely misgendering that idiot Caitlyn Jenner to some saying downright sexist remarks about the women attached to the WH. It's really illuminating. It is rather easy and ,imo, more effective to tear someone down without resorting to bigotry.

[Ms. Toad]

12. Absolutely.

The response I get when I complain about it is that everything is fair game to use to attack Trump, et al. Including, it seems, our LGBT, female, etc. friends who are being used as baseball bats.

I have yet to be able to convince them that they can't use me as a bat to bash Donald without also bashing me.

The response to this thread (so far) is a pleasant contrast to the usual response.

[tymorial]

13. Absolutely

What I find infuriating is when the same offenders get upset over posts that are directed towards individuals who share the same or similar ideology. The outrage is obvious virtue signaling. There is honor in hypocrisy.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

8. I agree. K&R.

[MFM008]

9. Her accent is fine

Its her brain and her TASTE that is in question.

[sprinkleeninow]

10. I love people with accents.

Both paternal and maternal grandparents had them.
So did my darling step-dad, a Brit.

'Her' accent is attached to 'her' of whom I strongly detest for pseudo involvement as a 'representative' of our glorious nation that I love.

💓?💪🗽

[Ms. Toad]

15. Certainly how she carries out her role of first lady

can be criticized without reference to an accent shared by at least thousands of people who are not detestable.

[HeartachesNhangovers]

66. Everyone has an accent ... in some language.

[Pacifist Patriot]

14. Completely agree. K & R

[BannonsLiver]

18. I generally avoid her inability to speak English fluently as a point of criticism.

But there was a joke a while back, can't remember who said it, but the gist of it was Melania had no first or second language which I chuckled at.

I think what would be more appropriate is for those who want to draw attention to her poor English would be simply to note the irony that deplorables have no problem with that but become enraged when brown people don't speak fluent English. That's not a direct attack on melania.

[thbobby]

19. She is irrelevant

I care nothing about Melania, her heels, her accents, or anything else.

I do not understand why anyone would. She is not worth any attention. She is irrelevant.

[HeartachesNhangovers]

39. Right on!

[spooky3]

20. She speaks English much better than I can speak a second

Language.

[Ms. Toad]

25. Agreed.

I had 3 years of high school Spanish, and managed well enough to communicate with a store owner to explain the obscure item I needed and find out when he would be open. But it was a real struggle - and involved a lot of made-up sign language.

When I travel, I always try to learn a little bit of the language of the country I'm in - and I'm sure my accent is horrendous. (My daughter says I speak French with a Spanish accent - when I tried to work with her on French a long time ago.) I'm amazed at how Americans always seem to expect everyone else to speak English and, sometimes even in their own country, ridicule them when it is not perfect.

It is truly being an ugly American to ridicule the accent of someone who speaks English better than I speak their language.

[Orrex]

22. Everyone has an accent except me

You bunch o' accented talkers, you.

[Ms. Toad]

34. No. That would be me.

Since I'm from Nebraska - one of the places people who want to speak without accents try to emulate: http://mentalfloss.com/article/59188/there-such-thing-not-having-accent

[LiberalLovinLug]

23. I agree

But you just know that if it was a Democratic President who was caught cheating and was on his third wife, much younger, who was born in another country, and who's work history was modeling, some of it in the buff, and spoke with a noticeable accent...?
..... Well you can just imagine.

[Ms. Toad]

26. I have no aspirations to be like the people you corrrectly suspect

would attack, no holds barred.

No one who does should be hanging out on DU.

[leftynyc]

24. I never talk about Melania

It pissed me off when Michelle, Sasha and Malia were trashed and I don't ever want to contribute to that kind of ugliness.

[Lotusflower70]

27. Agreed

My parents were immigrants to the United States and they still have accents. The accent is not the issue. For me, the issue with Melania is the birther bs and the fam bullying campaign. Also she is out of touch with the reality of the majority of Americans.

[get the red out]

28. No excuse for that

There are plenty of non-xenophobic options available to criticize the Trumps with.

[Sunlei]

29. I love her accent. report those posts, they should be deleted.

[procon]

31. Well, I couldn't understand what she said.

It's not entirely her accent, although it doesn't help, but my own hearing difficulties coupled with the atrocious company she keeps. Her voice, and that of lots of other women, is in that higher range that I always have trouble hearing. I also have trouble understanding people with a Southern drawl, not so much because of their accents or my hearing, but rather the context of their obnoxious Republican POV.

[Ms. Toad]

32. That sounds like your problem not her accent.

(voice in a range you can't hear + emotional predisposition to not want to understand).

Her accent is not particularly challenging - I would have said not much more challenging than a strong southern drawl.

I have students I find challenging to understand, as well. I also have students whose points of view I find obnoxious. I don't ridicule them because of their accents.

[procon]

55. Don't be so defensive. The woman is a tool. Don't feel sorry for her,

and don't make excuses if she sounds incomprehensible. Its her fake speechifying that should make every Democrat cringe. Trump uses her like a beaten dog that does stupid pet tricks on cue for his personal benefit. He has someone write her script, dresses her up and then he orders her to perform on stage for his amusement. That's her chosen lot in life and whatever payoff she's getting at the end of her captivity, nothing could be worth the humiliation of being Trump's wind up talking toy dolly.

[LanternWaste]

57. I think it's adorable how you rationalize simplistic petulance as someone else being defensive.

I think it's adorable how you rationalize simplistic, child-like petulance as someone else being defensive.

[procon]

69. Republicans use the term "adorable", is that an example of "simplistic petulance"? nt

[Weekend Warrior]

81. The things I learn here.

I'll have to remove "adorable" from my vocabulary.

[snooper2]

149. You still up what time zone

[Ms. Toad]

73. I'm not feeling sorry for her.

Nor am I defensive.

I am ashamed to be part of a group that believes that xenophobia is an appropriate mechanism for criticism.

[procon]

77. So you say.

Melania is not some pitiable waif from a foreign ghetto, she is a rich, privileged 46 year old woman who has everything. She willingly married Trump, a monster who is getting ready to cut health care for American children and poor folks. She supports everything Trump does and for that she deserves to be criticized, it has nothing to do with "xenophobia", but her role as an enabler.

Remember, she has always stood by her Trump. Even when he was under fire for those disgusting crude remarks he made about women, she explained it away as locker-room talk. She's his cover, a polished bit of eye candy to distract the casual observer from both his creepy misogyny and his general ineptitude. Melania doesn't deserve an ounce of sympathy nor the benefit of the doubt because she is Trump's servile handmaiden.

[Ms. Toad]

82. This has NOTHING to do with picking on Melania, or having sympathy for her

it is about members of DU proudly using xenophobia to attack someone, regardless of who they are or their their political beliefs.

[procon]

117. Maybe you have a different meaning of the term "xenophobia"?

Trump's paranoia about immigrants is xenophobic because he only seeswhat they are based on their nationality, race and ethnicity.

Glance through the replies and if people say they have trouble understanding her due to her strong accent, but that's NOT "xenophobia", that is a fact and there's no way around it. No one is attacking the woman because of what country she's from or her ethnicity. The criticism revolves around her politics and her irrational support of Trump, it's the who she is that is causational, not whatever country she's from.

[Ms. Toad]

139. ridiculing how she pronounces words,

or protesting that you can't understand her because of her "strong" accent is xenohobia. How many times have there been threads here posting videos in which someone with an accent is berated for not speaking American, or is being told their speech is incomprehensible (I can't understand you. Speak English)

She has an accent - yes, but it is not any harder to understand than someone with a british accent, or a strong southern drawl. Frankly, the similarity of the comments - including those claiming not to be able to understand her - to the attacks theh right wing make on people (largely hispanic) that we are properly offended by.

If who she is is the problem, attack that. Not her accent.

[procon]

145. Whoa, has anyone demanded that she should, "Speak English"?

Why do you twist things around? You may understand her better because you say you work with people similar accents, but clearly not everyone else agrees. That's not xenophobia, no matter how hard you keep trying to force it. Xenophobia is Trump's Birtherism and his claims that Obama wasn't born in the U.S., and Melania was right there agreeing with Trump. That's xenophobia.

You probably should quit now, since your argument has dwindled down to carping about everyone who doesn't agree with you and can't understand the woman, like you can, must be some sort of rightwing troll. Really? And now you have a new rule that accents are off limits? Nope. The minute she walked into the political arena, everything became fair game just like any other political critter who's in the public eye.

[Pope George Ringo II]

35. My current theory is that she exaggerates the accent just so she doesn't have to talk to Donald

She wouldn't be alone in minimizing her English skills to avoid the man.

[DFW]

37. An foreign accent is no big deal. It's the content that matters.

When my wife speaks English, it takes a native speaker of English about 0.76 seconds to hear that she is from Germany. Everybody loves her anyway (just ask California Peggy, since she knows this from personal experience).

[LittleGirl]

44. Yep, after living in

DE and CH I can spot a german accent every time.

I am married to a Brit and a grandchild of Italians that had a thick accent.

I agree with this post.

[DFW]

52. Schwyzer German is VERY special

Let alone that there are about ten different versions of it. Last year, I had to run down to Zürich for the day, and was on a Swiss plane down there. I greeted the crew in "Züridüütsch" and they answered in the same dialect, saying, "back home to Zürich today?" so I knew I had been convincing LOL!! When I told them, "i bin kchei Schwyzer, i bin Amerikchaner," it raised a few eyebrows, but elicited the response of "dann kchompliment!" It always earns you a friend or two.

[LittleGirl]

67. LOL

In Basel it's grutzie. I don't miss it.

[DFW]

68. Kinda sorta

Parts of Basel say "Grüssach." Mostly Basel, Zürich and Bern say "Grüezi."

Once I was in Zürich and needed some scotch tape. I asked for some "Tesa Film," which was the German term. There were 2 secretaries of the office I was in, and neither one had the slightest idea what I was talking about. I explained, and one of them said that I must have been using a term from Germany (I was), because in Switzerland, it was "Kläberli." The other one, a Zürich native, berated her as a "funny Baslerin," because the proper word in Zürich was "Kchloiberli." I said, if you German-speaking Swiss can't agree among yourselves what something is called, how am I supposed to know what to call it? They both agreed that I had a problem (but they did find me some tape).

[LittleGirl]

125. Indeed, it's gruezi

but I don't have my foreign language keyboard set up and I'm lazy.

yes, swiss german and Basel german is definitely different than high German. My hubby was really shocked at how different they spoke in Basel when we moved there. He had to ask the lady at the post office to speak high german because he couldn't understand her. ha ha. I can't tell the difference except for a few phrases I learned while I was there.

We have friends in Stuttgart and Baden Baden and they all comment on the way the swiss speak so it's typical. ha ha Gruss got (I don't know how it's spelled, I just know that all around Stuttgart, that was their greeting).

[DFW]

156. If you have a laptop or desktop, there is a whole table of "foreign" symbols

Look for "Character Map"

[LittleGirl]

158. yes, there is

and I'm lazy. ha ha. have a great day.

[DFW]

160. I did my duty

The rest is in your hands!

[WillowTree]

42. I agree. It's childish and classless and reflects much worse on the mocker than the mockee.

[WinkyDink]

43. Lighten up, Frances! I DON'T think Melania is an "odious human being" (you think THAT is

acceptable?!), but I like writing parody remarks "in her accent."

It's called "having a sense of humor."

Anyway, it's "hosbandt." 😝

[LanternWaste]

59. Many people do indeed, believe mocking an accent is humorous.

Many people do indeed, believe mocking an accent is humorous... fifth graders for the most part, but no doubt, someone will rationalize the petulance as adult and professional.

[bathroommonkey76]

62. *many robots do indeed

You know its funny when the transcription robots start mocking her:

[WinkyDink]

100. You seem too young to remember the late, great comedian Bill Dana. Pity.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/19/arts/television/bill-dana-comic-best-known-for-jose-jimenez-character-dies-at-92.html

[WinkyDink]

101. Oooh, so we are NOT really above name-calling! Heal thyself.

[LittleGirl]

45. YES

I was talking to my BFF a couple of weeks ago and she's always saying "Speak English" to those "others" and I get so mad at her. She thinks that the US has English as the required language and wouldn't believe me when I said, we have no required language here.

She has lived in AZ for 40+ yrs and cannot accept the fact that the US has no standard language.

[bathroommonkey76]

48. I don't mind people mocking her accent

Actually, I hope more people call her out for being a bigger fraud than her conman husband.

Everything about the mail order bride first lady is fair game.

I'll think about stopping after I get an apology from every Internet user who mocked Michelle Obama's looks. But I doubt that will ever happen, so I'll just keep chopping away at Malaria's horrible accent and disgusting lies that roll out of her real doll mouth.

[R B Garr]

50. Isn't this couched in the fact that Trump degrades immigrants and Melania

is an immigrant??

That is the origin of mocking her, as far as I can tell. I'm not saying it's right, and I can't recall reading posts about her that exclusively mock her accent, but that's not saying they don't exist if people have seen them.

Maybe someone has mentioned this already, as I haven't read through the whole thread.

[leftstreet]

60. Yes

I've seen that, and it doesn't bother me

Not only is Trump's xenophobia vile and disgusting, it's dictating his administration's policies and harming the US.

And it's made all the worse by proof that even his own loved one hasn't caused him to experience empathy

[R B Garr]

95. Exactly, he called an entire country rapists, murderers, bad people

and bad hombres. She implied that Obama can't be legitimate because he wasn't born here, yet SHE wasn't born here.

[ecstatic]

107. And it wasn't just one country, he actually smeared entire continents right after saying that

in the same disgusting speech:

It's coming from more than Mexico. It's coming from all over South and Latin America, and it's coming probably -- probably -- from the Middle East. But we don't know. Because we have no protection and we have no competence, we don't know what's happening. And it's got to stop and it's got to stop fast.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/06/16/full-text-donald-trump-announces-a-presidential-bid/?utm_term=.21842974e88d

[R B Garr]

128. Ugh, he was basically saying anyone with brown skin...

What a travesty to mankind he is. Unthinkable vulgarity and ignorance.

[Ms. Toad]

136. So call her on that - that is a legitimate issue.

Ridiculing her accent (which ridicules everyone else with the same accent) is not.

[Ms. Toad]

72. This is the response I expected.

Some variation of anything is fair game as long as we're bashing Trump.

How do you think people who sound like Melania feel when her accent is ridiculed? You can't mock her accent without mocking others who sound like her.

[R B Garr]

98. It's always amazing how just commenting on a thread

that you can understand what's behind something means that I must also condone it and now I'm a xenophobe. It sounded like your post was not taking the vileness of Trump's very public vulgarity into account.

I do think that college students would probably be more concerned about a President of the United States trying to deport their peers and calling an entire country rapists and murderers.

But I haven't seen the posts you mention, so I'll take your word for it. I do see what you ware saying. FWIW, my very favorite college professor had an Indian accent, and I learned so much from him because I had to concentrate on every word. He was as eloquent as he was intelligent. But a lot of people have accents, not just immigrants or foreigners.

[lark]

58. Agree about making fun of her accent.

However, I do feel justified calling her a plagiarist, liar, fraud, lazy, grifter, gold-digger, poro actress (not a star).

[johnp3907]

61. Yeah, let's all get back to how fat her husband is.

[stonecutter357]

64. who?

[Ms. Toad]

88. There are two threads about her speech.

At the time I posted this, about half the posts were mocking her accent.

[stonecutter357]

92. Well she is a rascist PIG...

[Ms. Toad]

93. The fact that she jumped on the birth certificate bandwagon

would certainly indicate that.

[cwydro]

70. I see "deporable" type comments on DU more and more.

It's very sad.

[TheBlackAdder]

71. Perhaps she doesn't want to assimilate. I work with a dozen M&F former Soviet bloc coworkers.

.


When they were here 7-10 years, there was a slight accent. After 15 years, only one or two have a slight one.

There is no excuse for someone who has been here 16 years to stumble so much on the language...

unless she just doesn't want to.


She is the same age as my coworkers, so it isn't being in her forties that's a factor. Being a woman isn't a factor because half of my coworkers are women--and they seem to be able to grasp English faster than the men. They seem to shed their accents first.


===


Remember, it's the assimilation to America that has Republicans all up in arms about Native Americans and other immigrants who remain cloistered in hamlets or "refuse to speak the language." Many of my coworkers would hang out in similar groups until they got their bearings with the country, and then they slowly spread their wings and embraced the culture and the language. About half married American born citizens.


This, to a degree, is throwing it back into Republican's faces. Highlighting another double standard.

.

[Ms. Toad]

74. I.e. You've been here long enough. Learn to speak 'murican.

Got it.

If you want to highlight a double standard, do it expressly. Ridiculing someone because they sound foreign is xenophobic. Regardless of your motive.

[TheBlackAdder]

79. I don't mock her language, I am just pointing out the double standard.

.

It would only sound xenophobic if it is done certain ways. Legitimate comedy is one such avenue.

It's getting to a point where people extend social justice to a point where we begin to walk on egg shells.

At extrapolated levels, pretty much anything we say and do can be interpreted as maligned.


===

I'm not sure which is worse, 'murican or this South Jersey drawl I have.

.

[onecent]

78. I don't give a shit about Melania AT ALL.....

can't stand anyone that LOVES Trump..dumb asses.

[Ms. Toad]

83. This isn't about Melania. It is about using xenophobia as a weapon. n/t

[WinkyDink]

102. O,FGS. I for one, a traveller to all of Europe, Morocco, Canada, and Mexico, am not a xenophobe.

But as long as we're slinging aspersions, maybe there are too many weirdo super-sensitive types who would like to restrict humor to....well, nothing. Even the great cartoons are subversive.

Ban Boris and Natasha! Only xenophobes like them!

(You don't know the allusion, do you?)

[stonecutter357]

80. Are you OK with me calling her a rascist POS ?

[uponit7771]

84. +1, and I haven't noticed too many of those accent post on DU

[Ms. Toad]

87. There were two threads today.

That is what prompted it.

[stonecutter357]

132. Is this OK with you ?

&ytbChannel=PartridgeFamilyVEVO

[stonecutter357]

90. It's #fakenews.

[R B Garr]

94. I haven't noticed them either. If she's mocked, I've seen it as a cynical contrast

to her husband calling an entire country rapists and murderers and bad people, and "bad hombres", even.

[Ms. Toad]

86. Hmm...let me think. Do I care if racists are hurt if you use them as a weapon?

No. Feel free.

I do care if gays are hurt when being gay is used as a weapon. (calling people gay as an insult)
I do care if people from other countries are hurt when you use being foreign as a weapon. (Hoosband)
I do care if people who are transgender are hurt when being trans is used as a weapon (mAnn Coulter)

The distinction is not that difficult to grasp. Don't use categagories of disadvantaged people as weapons.

[Dreamer Tatum]

104. "Rascist"

[LexVegas]

85. I make fun of foreign accents sometimes. Dont think its xenophobic. nt

[melman]

89. Really?

You make fun of foreign accents? Please explain what makes you feel this is acceptable.

[LexVegas]

96. You must stay offended. nt

[melman]

97. So you can't answer

[LexVegas]

99. I dont answer to you. Sorry...

[melman]

91. Agreed

I also find the recent popularity of the term 'Ruskie' kind of disturbing. Ethnic slurs have no place here.

[WinkyDink]

103. OMG. Do you use Sunscreen #5000? Because you seem extremely sensitive.

[melman]

106. Extremely sensitive?

For objecting to slurs? No, I don't think so.

[moriah]

153. What is that, a mink coat?

Seriously, I'm a ginger, if they've got some brand new amazing sunscreen, please tell me.

[Ms. Toad]

111. I'm old enough to remember

when that was an insult used against Liberals.

[moriah]

154. And "I'd rather be dead than Red"....

... when they weren't talking about Republicans.

[ecstatic]

105. I haven't chimed in, but I think she's fair game

I critique all accents, for example John Edwards, Bernie Sanders, or Jeff Sessions (Sessions' is like nails on a chalkboard). I find Melania's life choices, hypocrisy, and yes, her accent, annoying. Meanwhile, literally half of my family is from a different continent, and yes they have accents. Nobody is exempt from teasing here and there.

[Ms. Toad]

109. This has NOTHING to do with whether SHE is fair game

Ridiculing anyone becuase they speak with a foreign accent is xenophobic, and has no place in a progressive community.

Note: Using foreignness as an insult, as is being done here, is far different than good-natured teasing among family members.

[ecstatic]

114. I don't agree that that's what's happening ("using foreignness as an insult")

And I don't agree that it's ridicule because she has a foreign accent, it's ridicule because she's Melania (super tacky with the FLOTUS hats, hypocrite, plagiarist, lied about education/credentials, came here undocumented but supports "the wall," an immigrant who is *married* to a documented xenophobe, possibly a gold digger, etc).

There are a lot of cable news guests/contributors with accents and nobody has ever uttered a word about it (like Masha Gessen). So it's not the accent, it's the person.

I get what you're trying to say, but at the same time, by that standard we can't say anything about her at all. What is it OK to tease about (for those of us who are petty/silly/letting off steam during this ongoing nightmare)?

[Ms. Toad]

135. So it's OK to use the N-word as an insult, as long as you aren't using it

because someone is black?

That's the logic you are using when you dismiss the comments ridiculing her accent by saying, "And I don't agree that it's ridicule because she has a foreign accent, it's ridicule because she's Melania"

You don't get a free pass to use racial insults, misogyny, xenophobia, etc. to insult someone merely because the person you are insulting is generally hated.

The standard I am using doesn't prohibit calling her out for racism, ridiculing the pink outfit she wore today, her stilleto heels worn to the hurricane, stupid choices she makes, for participating in the birther nonsense, etc. Just don't use anything that is (or should be - e.g. gender identity) a protected class as an insult.

[EarthFirst]

108. There's plenty of that as well as fat shaming, ageism, law enforcement apologists...

Condescending attitudes towards anti-capitalist viewpoints.

Among others.

It's not a good look.

[Ms. Toad]

110. Agreed, all around. n/t

[Purveyor]

112. Agreed. This isn't the DU of yesteryear. I remember, probably 10 years ago or more when

I got lambasted for saying something about Candy Crowley and "cow", deservedly so I might add.

[arthritisR_US]

113. My disgust with her has nothing to with where she was born. If

she were native born and conducted herself in the very way she has up to now, I would still revile her. Her birtherism BS against President Obama were the inception of my opinion and it has steadily gone down hill from there.

[VOX]

116. Precisely! Right on the money.

[Ms. Toad]

133. As long as you're not ridiculing her by making fun of her accident

or where she was born, you'll get no argument from me.

[arthritisR_US]

143. I do view her as a horrible accident like her husband, a horrible

accident on the good people of the US. I could give a rats ass about her accent.

[VOX]

115. Not inclined to be charitable to someone who supported 45's birther crap...

On display here:

And her anti-bullying shtick is the epitome of irony. She's been fair game to most late-night comics, especially Colbert and Maher. (Maher on Melania: 'I have no first language'; also:'Her Secret Service code name is 'That poor, poor woman.'')

However, I haven't yet gone after her in terms of her ethnicity or language skills, except her propensity for plagiarism, and I will not. But I will excoriate her for any right-wing idiocy she parrots on the few occasions her toad of a husband lets her actually speak.

[arthritisR_US]

119. Her bullying BS is the height of hypocrisy given how

she uses the legal system to bully her detractors.

[Quayblue]

121. One of the biggest lessons learned as a black woman in America...

don't take on the ways of the oppressor.

There is nothing to gain from it.

[guillaumeb]

122. Recommended and agreed.

Many bi-lingual people speak with a different accent in their second or third language.

I understand being angry at Trump, but it is xenophobia, in my view.

[Ninsianna]

123. There are many xenophobic posts on DU, but the ones talking about Melania

are not xenophobic.

No one is accent free when they speak any language. It's a bit xenophobic to assume that whatever one considers and "American" accent is "accent free". It's not.

English is my second language, I had a non-American one when I arrived in this country at the age of 4, I spoke English English (the British sort), by age 5 I had an "American" one, confirmed by an old video my dad dug up from somewhere.

My grandfather, who taught me English, and my cousins had a horrible time trying to understand my American accent, which according to my college roomate (a Korean American from NJ/NY) was very midwestern, but totally normal to our suitemate (a Filipino/Italian-American from CT).

Fluency and accent have nothing to do with one another.

Melania speaks poorly, her accent is difficult to understand, but what makes her worthy of scorn is her immigration status, her support of vile Nazis, bullying and her patent failure to even read her teleprompter properly or do much of anything other than model clothes badly while flaunting her wealth at the expense of American citizens.

[Ms. Toad]

131. Mentioning or noticing an accent is different from ridiculing it, or someone because of it. n/t

[Ninsianna]

134. Depends on how they're mentioning or noticing it. I think this is a bit hyperreactive

while ignoring actual xenophobia on this board, of which a great deal is easily found.

Melnania was not being mocked due to xenophobia but for her own racist tendencies and approval of xenophobia and bullying. She's not credible and she doesn't read well, that's a statement about her and her intellect not her country or foreigners in particular.

It's a bit odd to make these statements as if people who have accents are not fluent, or that they can't read better than this racist loving lady.

It's condescending and denigrating, they don't defense, they're quite able to figure out what's racist, what's xenophobic and what's abusive and able to express themselves fluently and with good grammar to call it out.

[melman]

137. "of which a great deal is easily found"

Where? Let's see it.

[Ninsianna]

138. Then open your eyes and take a look my friend, it's not exactly hidden.

Have fun reading.

[Ms. Toad]

140. Nice of you to judge that what I - and the majorityof people in this thread -

recognize as "actual xenophobia," when you apparently haven't read the comments.

Nowhere did I suggest that an observation that she is not credible, or that she doesn't read well, or about her intellect was xenophobic.

I am addressing the commments in two threads today that expressly ridiculed her for her accent, most in posts that contained no other comment.

[Ninsianna]

142. Well, accusing people of xenophobia by projecting a very odd definition of it

based on accent and fluency, a distinction that xenophobes usually make was rather judgemental as well.

Seems like actual xenophobia is not recognized, even by those setting themselves up as judges of it.

I have read the comments, and regardless of what people might be saying about accents and fluency, that this is the point of contention really speaks to blindness of the actual xenophobia here.

"Them furriners talk funny, it's cuz they dunno real English, 'Murican English" this is xenophobia. Assumptions made about why people are saying things speaks to where that's coming from.

They're expressly ridiculing everything about this ridiculous woman, and quite frankly it's well deserved. It has nothing to do with xenophobia.

Dumbasses who make judgments about accents conflate them with fluency are not hard to spot. I deal with them on a daily basis, my acquired midwestern accent doesn't match my face or my name.

I know what xenophobia is, and making fun of Melania and her pink balloon sleeved outfit and her terrible teleprompter reading isn't it. It's her delivery, it was the content and it was a woman so flaming in her hypocrisy that she didn't seem smart enough to figure out why she's making herself even more ridiculous than her outfits and choice of shoes.

[Ms. Toad]

161. As I have expressly stated several times

I was not suggesting that criticizing Melania, generally, for choices she makes is not xenophobic. Ridiculing her accent, suggesting she needs to get training to correct it, insisting she is not understandable because of her accent (which is present, but not nearly thick enough to seriously interfere with understanding the words she is saying) are.

I never suggested DU was otherwise free of xenophobia. It isn't, as my agreement with several others in this thread who added other rampant bigoted behavior should suggest. I am under no obligation to run around and find or call out all other instances of xenophobia merely because I'm calling out the one that smacked me in the face when I scrolled through two separate threads ridiculing her accent.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

127. Yes, and while we're at it, can we please stop making odious comments about people's weight and

other aspects of their physical appearance. Thank you.

[Ms. Toad]

130. +1000

[WinkyDink]

150. Even Trump's hair? Haha.

[mshasta]

141. I have an accent and I will make fun of her as well

I try my best to learn as much as I can the correct pronunciations....she is being in the US for a long freaking time long enough that she feel so freaking bad ass to go on national television and with her broken English and accused President Obama of not being a real American born citizen

Please !

[snooper2]

147. The next swimsuit edition comes out in February

I checked lol

[stevenleser]

148. Children of politicians should never be discussed and spouses rarely unless they make a political

speech or lead a political effort and then the efforts or the contents of the speech are the only things that should elicit negative commentary.

[tenderfoot]

151. I hate it when people pick on someone that claimed Obama was Kenyan.

So xenophobic!!!!

[Ms. Toad]

162. I never even hinted that criticizing her generally was xenophobic.

Or that she was not, herself, xenophobic - although more obviously racist.

That doesn't excuse xenophobia on our part.

[drray23]

159. absolutely.

I am a scientist who work and live in the US. I have been a US citizen for years, my wife is american. Yet, I still have a french accent when speaking english.

The thing that irks me most is when people assume I am not intelligent because of my accent. They will speak slowly or raise their voice as if I was unable to understand.

I speak english as fluently as I speak french, my native language. I have no issues understanding people in the deep south or any other part of the country for that matter. Yet, I occasionally encounter these prejudices.

[NurseJackie]

164. Your post made me think of this...

[WinkyDink]

166. Were I to hear your (or any) French accent, I'd be thrilled! I would ask you your hometown, tell

you of my travels to and love of France, and assume you were quite well-educated!

Maybe a tad crazy for leaving, though, haha!

[TeapotInATempest]

163. For what it's worth

My problem with the way she speaks is not her accent, but her delivery. To me, her inflection is flat and there's a little-girl softness to it that annoys me to no end.

[Chemisse]

165. Thank-you for this post.

I work with many immigrants in my high school, and I can't imagine doing what they have done - moved to a new and very different country and learned a whole new language that is extremely different from their native tongue.

Mocking their accents would be cruel. Only middle-school kids and Republicans would do such a thing!