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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSanders: I don't consider myself a Democrat
http://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/sanders-i-don-t-consider-myself-a-democrat-924041283893watch from 1.15
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)There is an (I) after his name after all.
Gothmog
(145,168 posts)factfinder_77
(841 posts)bluepen
(620 posts)Especially now that it looks like the ACA will survive, despite his effort to make the healthcare debate seem like its either his bill or Trumpcare. Goodbye to all that.
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)his objection so strongly to Graham's bill.
factfinder_77
(841 posts)They cant sell out our core party values, but at the same time we need the young voters that voted for Sanders in the primaries.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)CherokeeFiddle
(297 posts)Ninsianna
(1,349 posts)CherokeeFiddle
(297 posts)Next talking point?
There are Democrats who are ranked a LOT higher than Bernie but because it's Bernie, you're upset.
NRA Endorses 14 House Democrats Over Republicans
Meet The NRA-Backed Senate Democrats Who Oppose Obamas Gun Violence Prevention Plan
Let's look at some of these folks in the above link.....(note; this is from 2013)
1. Max Baucus, Montana (NRA Rating: A+).
2. Heidi Heitkamp, North Dakota (NRA Rating: A).
2. Heidi Heitkamp, North Dakota (NRA Rating: A).
4. Joe Donnelly, Indiana (NRA Rating: A).
5. Mark Begich, Alaska (NRA Rating: A).
6. Joe Manchin, West Virginia (NRA Rating: A).
7. Jon Tester, Montana (NRA Rating: A-).
8. Harry Reid, Nevada (NRA Rating: B).
DFW
(54,369 posts)Max Baucus, Mark Begich and Harry Reid are no longer in the Senate, and Heidi Heitkamp's clone never was.
Ninsianna
(1,349 posts)updated in quite some time.
What's weird is that I didn't mention the NRA or its dubious ratings, but actual votes on bills that dealt with gun rights and gun liabilities. Well, actually I just stated something rather general, but the response assumed a lot of things, including my supposed upset about his favorite candidate.
I'm trying to think of an example of where that sort of odd assumption has ever been made, but not even my teen heartthrob obsessed cousins would make such assumptions if I dared to criticize a song or movie of their crush.
This rabid defense is not normal, it's a politician, there is no race currently happening, and it's an easily verifiable and legitimate criticism. This a very odd response.
CherokeeFiddle
(297 posts)Ninsianna
(1,349 posts)favoritest Senator.
For the record, I didn't mention the NRA, which LOVED Bernie. So your pre-fabricated talking point to counter my point fails.
Did I mention a Obama's Gun Violence Prevention Plan? Nope.
Wow, the NRA endorsed random people in 2010 and that somehow makes Bernie's gun votes magically disappear? No.
Here's what the NRA had to say a little more recently: http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/07/politics/nra-bernie-sanders-spot-on-tweet/index.html
More on the subject, not from the NRA.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/01/bernie-sanders-vote-gun-immunity-black-market/
He voted 5 times against the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act. Against background checks.
The Charleston Loophole and quite a few other gun friendly measures.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/01/26/everything-you-wanted-to-know-about-bernie-sanderss-record-on-guns/?utm_term=.5892570670a3
So, my point stands. The party is way better on gun control than Bernie Sanders is. The NRA thinks he's on point since you value their opinion so much.
His voting record, to which I referred, supports my point. It's sad that blind jingoistic love of a candidate is reliant on just assuming that the talking points of the campaign are correct and need to based on assumptions made that anyone who dares even the mildest, voting record referencing, fact base criticism of a politician MUST be made due to dislike of him. That's some Trump like thinking right there, immature, incorrect and rather cultish.
The facts are what they are, and they don't back up the talking points dredged up and projected to defend a legitimate criticism. Perhaps less upset that anyone is daring to criticize one's political crush and more examination of what's actually being said, and the facts are in order.
CherokeeFiddle
(297 posts)You didn't mention the NRA but you mentioned guns. You can't especially have the convo about guns without bringing up the NRA.
Again, Bernie has a D- rating from the NRA and there are current serving Dems who rank higher than he does. Where is your outrage over that? Is it just "Bernie!" which I suspect? It seems so.
And you know exactly why Bernie voted the way he did yet you are only seeing the surface of the iceberg and doing so because it firs your narrative.
"For example, do I think that a gun shop in the state of Vermont that sells legally a gun to somebody, and that somebody goes out and does something crazy, that that gun shop owner should be held responsible? I don't."
-from: The CNN Democratic debate transcript, annotated
He was for a bill that distinguished between manufacturers and sellers who KNOWINGLY or NEGLIGENTLY sold weapons to criminals, but not those who accidentally sold weapons that were used in crimes.
Bernie voted o ban assault firearms with H.R.4296 - Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act
Bernie voted to close the gun show loophole with H.Amdt.216 to H.R.2122
Bernie voted to regulate high capacity munitions with S.Amdt.714 to S.649
Bernie voted to expand background checks with S.Amdt.715 to S.649
These are just a few things.
Calling people who disagree with you this speaks volumes-- "That's some Trump like thinking right there, immature, incorrect and rather cultish." Are you wanting 8 years old Trump because that is how you get 8 years of Trump.
Ninsianna
(1,349 posts)really liked your guy and said so.
Again, what they said in 2016 over what they said in 2012? And all the years before when they sure liked the guy and his votes to not regulate guns.
Your suspicions seem to be based on your own wishful thinking, I suspect that this is because you can't defend the legitimate criticism and can't tolerate any facts that interfere with the hero worship.
Perhaps after you've been here longer than a week, you'll learn to respond to what's been written instead of what you've decided to assume, about people whose posts you don't seem to read well, but you've decided you know well enough to read what's in their hearts and minds.
What exactly are you suggesting "I know" about how dear, dear Bernie (peas be upon him) voted and why? I can think of no legitimate reason for his votes, but since you know so much about what I know and why Bernie voted against sensible gun regulation that even Republicans voted for (to the delight of the NRA who gave him a better grade for his sympathetic votes), why don't you lay out the Tarot cards, fire up the mind reading and tell us all what you claim you have read in our minds?
So he was for "instant background checks" in 2005 and THAT's why he voted against Brady 5 times?
Were there instant background checks even feasible in 2005?
A hint, the article where you cherry picked quotes from? It gives you the answer, oddly you chose to pretend it didn't exist, almost like it wasn't in the talking points from last year which are being used with a vengeance, but which the fact checks destroyed back then.
I posted a fact check of that debate, I see why it might be inconvenient to this bald refighting of lost primary to reference the fact checks on the topic I was referencing.
It's an extreme position to request background checks that are possible at the time? To hold gun manufacturers liable? No, that's not extreme at all, it is why the Democratic party has the superior position on Gun Control and your guy does not.
Calling any disagreement out in the personal terms as you've been doing in your 16 OPs, and 200+ posts in less than a week, on every interaction, speaks greater volumes.
And pointing out the similarity in behavior does indeed speak volumes, all the assumptions, poor reading, cherry picked quotes, ignoring facts and fact checks and accusing everyone who disagrees with you of "hating Bernie" and "being upset about Bernie" is literally how Trumper think and act. Sorry if my ACCURATE assessment of behavior that is replicated in nearly every post hit a little too close to home.
We get 8 years of Trump when we fail to call out the ignorance, the abuse, the harassment and the utter failure of fact base dialogue to call out the forces whose sole aim seem to be foment division and anger within the only party opposing him.
We get 8 years of Trump when we denigrate, demean and lie about Democrats and Democratic Party positions. I'm not the one doing the damage that gave us Trump, nor am I the one seeking to continue the fractures and the abuse to ensure more Trump. Projecting ones own behavior and motives fails as much as ignoring facts, and cherrypicking to suit an argument that was defeated some time ago, through various fact checks.
CherokeeFiddle
(297 posts)Not sure what is up with your personal attacks here in some of the things you've written but it's rather unwarranted.
My "suspicion"? What suspicion might that be since you seem to know me so well? As far as hero worship goes, Bernie isn't perfect by any means and nobody is however your blind hatred for him does show quite well on nearly every thread about him. We get it, you're upset because he's not a Democrat.
I respond to posts just fine thank you. I respond to what people say, kind of hard to see what is in people's minds & hearts based on pixels on a message board on the internet, don't ya think? If someone says something and took the time to type it out, then that is what they meant.
Again, your blind hatred is showing. "Peas upon him"? Really? I rest my case.
As far as Bernie and why he voted the way he did, you know the answer I suspect and a simple search on Google would reveal that; Sportsmen. VT is a very big sportsman state.
I explained fully WHY Bernie voted against Bernie up above.
Yes, instant background checks were feasible and have been for a long time
Are you familiar with what NCIC is? It is the crime information center clearing house. Any time you say get pulled over by the cops, your license and name is run. This is the system which the police run your information through. It is literally instantaneous. Ironically it is already used for guns in a round about way however indirectly; if someone is in possession of a firearm, that firearm's serial numbers are run through NCIC along with the persons name & criminal history to see if they are eligible to own a firearm.
Yes, instant background checks are very possible and tapping into the NCIC is one way to make it happen.
Holding gun makers responsible isn't responsible, it's irresponsible and downright silly. We don't hold Budweiser and other beer companies responsible for drunk driving deaths, do we? Should we start? I don't think so. Do we hold car makers for drunk driving deaths too? Nope. Maybe we should start that too! You can't hold the maker of something legal nor responsible for something that isn't working incorrectly. Can a gun maker be held responsible if say they produce a weapon that was faulty and jammed, injuring people all the time? Yes. However that is a different scenario entirely. Remember the Firestone & Ford tire debacle late 90s &early in the 2000s? It lead to Congress passing the TREAD Act, due to tires being faulty. You can't do as you're suggesting, not only would it not fly, it is 100% unconstitutional. That is the reality of the situation. Do gun makers enjoy special protections under the law? Yes. And Hillary stated several times and was correct in her run for the Presidency. Are those laws correct or wrong? That is up to you and your POV. and opinion.
Pot meet kettle; here you are doing just that with personal attacks. Sorry you have such a problem with me.
I'm sorry that you dislike that I speak the truth. It is what it is and it is rather obvious as I already quoted here. If anything Trumpers are enjoying this because it drives division in our party, the very thing they need to win in 2018 and 2020. Doubt me? Feel free to prove me wrong.
I find it ironic that you bring up "denigrate, demean and lie about Democrats and Democratic Party positions" here, in a thread about guns, when several people who are Democrats have a lot higher NRA ratings than Bernie, including people like Joe Manchin who has a "A" rating. That alone makes all of this silly. But because it's "BERNIE!!"...well...it says it all.
Ninsianna
(1,349 posts)I'll paste the little excerpt you neglected to notice in your attack on Democrats:
http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2010/10/06/130393162/nra-endorses-14-house-democrats
Apparently the talking points used by those who prefer to attack the Democratic party are stale, non factual and don't in anyway answer the fact that a non Democrat isn't so great on gun issues per his voting record.
I thought only right wingers chose to willfully misunderstand points and provided links that invalidated and defeated their own talking points. Interesting tactics.
CherokeeFiddle
(297 posts)Ninsianna
(1,349 posts)It's funny that actual attacks launched by you don't exist, but imaginary ones you've created in your own head when voting records are referenced are all because people hate your guy!
It's those precious double standards again.
JustAnotherGen
(31,817 posts)lunamagica
(9,967 posts)CherokeeFiddle
(297 posts)As a gun owner myself, Anything higher than a D is questionable.
bluepen
(620 posts)and, oddly enough, kind of a cult of personality.
Plus, attention span and all that.
Not worried in the least about young voters coming back to reality. I doubt Schumer and Pelosi are either.
ChubbyStar
(3,191 posts)Do you have young adults in your house? Because I do, and Bernie is not a FAD.
bluepen
(620 posts)I have nieces and nephews and know young adults of friends. Most of them have come to their senses. Some wont.
Regardless, the fad is dying out. Bernie is done. Its over. Move on.
It is not a fad, so sorry for you.
CherokeeFiddle
(297 posts)I am simply shocked.... "Bernie is a fad" is why people are so disenfranchised these days
bluepen
(620 posts)Any thoughts on the Easter bunny or Santa Claus?
lapfog_1
(29,199 posts)Back when I was college age there was this guy John Anderson... ran as an independent for President.
I loved him... as did lots of other college age "kids".
He didn't win in 1980... not a single state. He hurt Carter but not enough to swing the election.
And then he completely disappeared.
I also grew up and promised to never vote 3rd party again... at least until there is a viable 3rd party to vote for.
CherokeeFiddle
(297 posts)and they aren't moving on. It's been a couple years now and things are stronger now than they ever have been before. To call it a fad is completely false.
Attention span? If that isn't offensive, I don't know what is. Wow. Yes because people under 40 all have short attention spans. What a sad statement to make about people and comments like that are WHY Trump very well could win in 2020. Check your privilege mate.
Pelosi and Schumer are very concerned about young voters (millennials) who are now the largest voting block in America. They passed boomers.
bluepen
(620 posts)Things are stronger... Things? Vague. Meaningless.
I dont care if someone is offended by my views on attention span. Your reaction to my opinion isnt my problem. Simply doesnt matter.
How did comments on attention span get Trump elected? Specific examples?
Check my privilege? Youre just using a worn-out and hollow buzzword here. Nothing more. Makes zero sense.
Pelosi and Schumer HAVE TO play the part of concerned leaders. But they know (as we all do) that the vast majority of Bernie voters will vote smarter in the future.
haveahart
(905 posts)ads and some of Sanders unsubstantiated claims then there is little hope of them becoming informed voters. I will only speak for what I know happened within my own family with the millennials. All but two out of nine admit their thinking about HRC was shaped by Bernie and what they heard over the airwaves and social media sites they visited. One of the 7 belonged to the Young Republicans and two were avid BLM supporters. All of the nine had graduated from college during the Obama administration and found jobs by their 4th or 5th year out. Most had worked in part-time positions until they found good paying (not exactly what they wanted but decent pay). Health insurance taken care of by mom and dad for most and their employer.
Not one of the nine voted for HRC, not one. Are they sorry? Damn right they are!!
We (siblings and cousins who are their parents) had to work hard to get to this point with them. We failed, obviously, to help them understand our history since the 1990s. Of course there was the all the talk about the Crime Bill, the super predator flap, crime back in the 70's, the drug wars etc. And I will add here that we had no ideal how these young folks were going to vote once inside the voting booth. We thought we knew but none of us had really paid that much attention to what they were doing with their politics. We thought we had taught them what they needed to know to be good Democrats.
ALL nine are sorry that they either sat out or voted for Stein. (To this day we still aren't certain about how they actually voted, only what they told us.) One daughter of a cousin is a bitter for of Nina Turner at this point. And as far as Trump and the political scene right now, they all seem less and less interested in politics and political issues right now...sort of drop outs. All we parents have become much more active politically as a result of 2016 as well as all of our extended families.
Not doing anything here except telling what I know to be the case with our family who lives and works in Maryland, Delaware, and PA. As for those of us who live in IL, MI, CA, GA, FL, CO...we haven't had a reunion lately to know their political stories. But I bet they are similar.
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)Thank you for your post.
The debate on Monday should tell us a good deal about where Bernie stands at this point. I'm hoping that he will focus like a laser beam on killing the G-C bill. If not, well then Bernie's being Bernie and that's the problem.
I'm not sure that most of those who stayed home on election day do regret their decision, but they should, given the obvious and terrible consequences of that decision.
I expect Bernie will run in 2020. I also hope that his supporters will realize that no one, absolutely no one who is 80 years old should be president of the US. Not Bernie, not Biden, not Hillary (if she were that age), no one. It's ludicrous.
I'm hoping that we find a new voice, a new and younger candidate, who can speak for both Democrats and Bernie supporters.
bluepen
(620 posts)Voltaire2
(13,023 posts)bluepen
(620 posts)He can take his place next to Ron Paul in the Museum of Political Fads and Bandwagons of the 21st Century.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)factfinder_77
(841 posts)We need all hands on deck on this one.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)pnwmom
(108,977 posts)kstewart33
(6,551 posts)Hope that video is handy if/when Bernie again goes to the Democratic Party for only its benefits and resources for a run in 2020.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)think about that.
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)Could be, but no one brought up that possibility during the 2016 campaign, and Bernie and the DNC went at each other for months. There is no love lost between Bernie and the Democratic Party so it's difficult to believe that he would run as a Democrat to help the Democratic party.
Dianne Feinstein, one of the most diplomatic and effective members of the Senate, when asked why so few Democratic Senators work enthusiastically with Bernie, said with a smile (best I can recall), "Bernie isn't the easiest person to work with."
IMHO, that is Bernie's biggest problem.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)kstewart33
(6,551 posts)It's his "my way or the highway" attitude. An inability to compromise. That is kind of person is very difficult to work with.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)shanny
(6,709 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)Response to factfinder_77 (Original post)
Post removed
Response to Post removed (Reply #11)
R B Garr This message was self-deleted by its author.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)please quit helping Republicans drive wedges against our D party supporters
Love,
Sunlei
factfinder_77
(841 posts)Sunlei
(22,651 posts)He's a sitting Senator
Grassy Knoll
(10,118 posts)hedda_foil
(16,373 posts)On a unity tour. Not that it makes any difference to you. I deeply regret your determination to continually attempt to make an easily bridgeable difference into a permanent divide. Now that I think of it, that's precisely the way some here drove Sanders primary voters to JPR , where they were treated to more of the Russians' finest propaganda. And so it continues.
Me.
(35,454 posts)he keeps telling us who he is, he should know, yet some refuse to believe it
factfinder_77
(841 posts)Vermont senator hails successes of progressive agenda but says establishment Democrats stand in the way of further gains
Me.
(35,454 posts)Whether or not he walks his talk
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)A party can't be considered strong and effective if it keeps losing ground at the state level for years and years and years, is in the minority in Congress, and doesn't hold the White House.
He may have phrased it harshly, but is there any good reason to see the party as successful?
Or to think we can win in '18 and '20 by just doing the same things over again?
We can't make a comeback without making SOME changes.
CherokeeFiddle
(297 posts)The Democratic party must understand what side it is on. And that cannot be the side of Wall Street, or the fossil fuel industry, or the drug companies.
Is that statement incorrect? Because I think it is dead on the money.
kcr
(15,315 posts)The Democratic party needs to stop beating their spouses." Is that statement incorrect? I mean, can't say they should keep doing it, can ya? Dead on the money!
Me.
(35,454 posts)Judge him by his actions, not by what he says. His actions dont tell me that he's a democrat.
CherokeeFiddle
(297 posts)Fighting to insure everyone?
Voting against the recent NDAA?
Rallying people over the summer to fight against "Trumpcare"?
Bringing young voters into the political process?
Saying Saudi Arabia is no ally of ours?
Voting no on Trumpcare?
Restricting the Bailout to Protect U.S. Workers?
Exposing corruption in the Military-Industrial complex with his amendment?
Support for treating Autism in military health care?
Marching with Nissan workers in Mississippi & defending and calling for their right to unionize?
Marching with fast food workers in the Fight For $15?
I judge him by his actions. His actions tell me he is busting his ass for the working class, sick & poor.
Xolodno
(6,390 posts)...people don't want the party to evolve left, they want it force-ably moved right.
You know, just in case, the GOP really doesn't recover after the hurricane they know is coming at them.
factfinder_77
(841 posts)Xolodno
(6,390 posts)Also, you may want to fix your link.
Socialists also vote "D" as Libertarians vote "R". The GOP has enough sense not to alienate Libertarians, likewise, nor should the Democratic Party alienate Socialists just because they don't agree on the economic system. But we shouldn't sell ourselves for "GOP lite". Progressive values should be the goal, not backward conservative and bankrupt ones.
Bitching and moaning about Bernie is beating a dead horse.
CherokeeFiddle
(297 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)The country doesn't need TWO conservative parties.
And once we moved that far right for the short-term, we could never be progressive again after that.
Xolodno
(6,390 posts)You said it better than I did.
This is just speculation on my part, but I wonder if the TEA Party fiasco blow back is also hitting us. Moderates in the GOP did little to fight against the hard right. Many seemed to have just gave up and joined the Democratic Party and many were welcomed. Now are trying to drag us right or have been dragging us right for their satisfaction.
Bernie, love him or hate him, did point out, that the US is center-right is either a myth or well on its way out. The country, albeit slowly, is marching left. They can point that Congress and the WH is controlled by the GOP and we therefore must move in that direction, but its fallacy. The gerrymandering, voter suppression, etc. shows the opposite, if one is confident that the country is right leaning, then why the questionable tactics?
nini
(16,672 posts).
no_hypocrisy
(46,088 posts)democrank
(11,094 posts)He's a senator from Vermont, right? Vermonters know he's an Independent and they elected him with over 70% of the vote in his last senate race. Vermonters don't hate Independents. They like it when folks from different parties work together for the good of all.
My advice to the anti-Bernie folks....Even though some Democratic leaders welcome Bernie's help and support, just hope and pray Bernie stops working with the Democratic Party and takes all his awful, far-left Socialist voters with him. Purity, not unity. That should be our mantra.
I realize over 40% of voters are Independents, but our party will attract most of them so long as we're successful in getting rid of Bernie.
Imagine....he's even in favor of Medicare for All. I don't understand why, because things are great just the way they are. Drug prices are quite low, health insurance is extremely affordable. It simply can't get any more perfect. Bernie should sit down, shut up and be grateful we have the best health care system on the face of the earth.
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)anymore.
You have to live with the same results as everyone else.
Edit-he also said he needed the media attention as a Democrat, so obviously there is value in the party.
democrank
(11,094 posts)I've been busy doing math.
There are more Independents than Democrats.
In the last decade or so, Democrats have lost around 1,000 state and federal seats.
A majority of states are red.
Something has to change.
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)to run as an Independent.
Dyedinthewoolliberal
(15,569 posts)Snackshack
(2,541 posts)Reason he is an Independent.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)If we did what you want and treated Bernie as the enemy, only the Right would benefit.
Especially since he's certain to be re-elected in a landslide in Vermont in '18.
Response to factfinder_77 (Original post)
Post removed
JCanete
(5,272 posts)Last edited Tue Oct 3, 2017, 12:41 PM - Edit history (1)
as a democrat. Most democrats don't seem to have a problem with that.
Edited: because I cringed at just how dickish my comment was. Dialing down the abusiveness that was totally uncalled for. Sorry factfinder.
Quixote1818
(28,930 posts)Warpy
(111,254 posts)chillfactor
(7,575 posts)if bernie really had Democratic Party values, he would register as a Democrat...he clearly hasn't done that.....and I truly believe he was one of the reasons Hillary lost the election. I have no respect for bernie.
CherokeeFiddle
(297 posts)Explain this to us please.
Lunabell
(6,080 posts)Used to be.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)What time frame are you talking about?
Lunabell
(6,080 posts)WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)North's role in the debacle of Operation Eagle Claw.)
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Last edited Sat Sep 23, 2017, 09:11 AM - Edit history (1)
Carter was the centrist and Kennedy was the liberal. Kennedy fought him all the way to the convention, demanding a more liberal party platform.
JNelson6563
(28,151 posts)I'm just glad we don't have the big ego problems they have on the right.
MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)Who align themselves with the Democratic party. (Senator Sanders specifically by name) If a person bashes the party does that rule still apply? What is acceptable behavior for a politician that is supposedly aligned with democrats? How about we apply the same rule to political figures that despise the democratic party and ban them?
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)There are more important issues than always basking in the limelight.
doubleplusgood
(944 posts)Now, go away.
vi5
(13,305 posts)....not aligning himself with such a beloved institution with such a strong track record of victory? How foolish of him.
aikoaiko
(34,169 posts)And I'm proud that he is a leader of the Democratic I Party.
liberal N proud
(60,334 posts)NOT!
Eyeball_Kid
(7,431 posts)Russians are quite willing to jump all over this false narrative that Sanders' political views are foreign to Democratic Party views. Russians LOVE to parse words, concepts, and groups to suit their own interests. Russians want to deconstruct. They'd love to have the Democrats fighting among themselves. They've been all over the 2016 elections doing just that.
For political purposes, Sanders is strongly allied with the Democrats and the Dems know it. He speaks to the issues that Democrats value. I don't give a rip whether he calls himself an Independent or not. His values resonate with a majority of citizens in the same way that the Democrats' values resonate with the majority of citizens.
jalan48
(13,862 posts)Thank you Senator Sanders.
kentuck
(111,085 posts)... there seems to be a large number of people that don't consider themselves "Democrats".
These people could be our friends or they could be our enemies?
Which would we prefer?
That might end up being the only option left?
Ninsianna
(1,349 posts)They spend their time attacking us and not Trump, one has to wonder why, especially when one considers how many of them actually voted for Trump. Which of the other people who spend their days and nights attacking us should we make friends with?
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)... the harder it will be to get their support in 2018 and 2020.
Bummer.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)nor do millions of others. But keep fucking that chicken...