A Football Game Is Not a Patriotic Event

[MineralMan]

It is a football game. A game. The same is true of all sporting events. There is no reason, really, to inject some sort of national patriotic nonsense into a game, while we refuse to acknowledge that US citizens in our territories are suffering and dying after more than one hurricane.

We have lost our sense of what is important, and our national leadership is failing in its responsibilities. Instead of firing athletes, we should simply take patriotic activities out of such events, where they do not really belong.

Football is a game. Football is a multi-billion dollar business. It is not a patriotic venue in any way. Put patriotism where it belongs - protecting our rights and national identity. Football has nothing to do with either.

[pangaia]

1. " Put patriotism where it belongs - protecting our rights and national identity"

That is exactly what the 'kneelers' are doing. And using the world stage that, unfortunately for mankind, is football.

[MineralMan]

2. Actually American football isn't really all that much of a

world-wide thing. It's pretty much limited in its audience to people in this country.

The kneelers are simply taking their opportunity to exercise their First Amendment rights. I believe that it's too bad there is any such patriotic ritual at such events. It makes no sense. It is a game. It is a business. It has nothing to do with patriotism in any way, really.

[pangaia]

7. I should have said american stage, you are right.

I would be more prone to object to huge horizontal american flags, national anthem, billion dollar jets roaring overhead deafening everybody, military people on the field with flags and guns.


THAT is patiotic stuff
screw all that shit...

but protesting wrongs?
That is for anywhere.

[ProfessorGAC]

6. I'm Conflicted Now

I agree with both of you.

I'd just as soon eliminate the anthem from the start of sporting events. It seems silly and frivolous, which should be especially true of those who find some deeper meaning in that song and that cloth.

At the same time, it does provide the platform for what happened yesterday, which was a big STFU to the usurper.

[femmocrat]

3. I agree.

Also, this big sparkly thing to get all riled up about has nothing to do with urgent happenings such as the Graham-Cassidy, North Korea, Puerto Rico, new travel ban, Dreamers, etc., etc, etc. You know, actions that actually affect peoples' lives and well-being!

Trump certainly knows how to create diversions and use them to distract the public.

Can we just focus on calling our f*cking senators for a couple of days? We can fight over football folderol next week or whenever.

[pangaia]

8. you don't think black people being killed in the streets

directly affect people's lives and well-being?

[femmocrat]

9. Cheap shot.

You know perfectly well what I mean. I am talking about trump's blatant attempt to change the subject.

[pangaia]

12. I did not mean it as a 'cheap shot.' i really thought you were leaving

out the entire reason for the 'kneelers.'

[femmocrat]

13. I apologize for jumping to conclusions.

It seems like people in general are a little testy lately and I mistook your intent. So sorry.

[pangaia]

20. I apologize if I jumped to conclusions also.

[femmocrat]

21. .

[smirkymonkey]

4. Hear, hear!

[FLPanhandle]

5. Maybe this will be the end of playing the national anthem at games

You are correct, it's a business. We don't play the national anthem before Broadway plays, before business meetings, before the doors open at the local Lowe's. Why football games?

Just do away with the concept and remove politics from the equation.

[CanonRay]

10. I've been sick of this military shit at games for years.

9-11 just made it ten times worse.

[Weekend Warrior]

11. Sure it is. It's infused with symbols of patriotism.

Patriotism runs deep at many sporting events. It makes perfect sense to inject patriotism into their events. It's great pr and the fans overall love it.

[MineralMan]

22. Nonsense. There is no justification for it at all.

NFL football and all those professional sports are just businesses. It's all just games, even at the high school and college level, too. Where is patriotism called for in that?

It's games, not patriotic events. The National Anthem isn't needed. Prayers aren't needed. Just "Play ball" and get on with it. Patriotism is bullshit at games. It's not needed or even appropriate.

[Weekend Warrior]

23. I don't see my point as justification.

More along the lines of common sense. A time-honored tradition that can be found since sporting events were first documented. Truly. Some things just make sense and are obvious. This is one of them. Literally, this pairing has been around for over a thousand years.

[MineralMan]

24. Tradition isn't always common sense, though.

I remember games without the National Anthem, but I'm an old geezer.

[Weekend Warrior]

25. Many games had symbols of patriotism hundreds of years before you were born.

Your point here holds no merit when it comes to the argument you are trying to make.

[MineralMan]

26. Hundreds of years, eh?

Yeah, no...

This country hasn't existed for "hundreds of years," and the anthem at games started during WWI, which was, as you may know only 100 years ago. So, no, not "hundreds of years."

Learning a little history is good. On this issue, you might want to read the link below:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/08/30/a-brief-history-of-the-star-spangled-banner-being-played-at-games-and-getting-no-respect/?utm_term=.0ea7ce930199

[Weekend Warrior]

27. Yes, hundreds of years.

Actually more like over a thousand. I get the concept of American exceptionalism but the US isn't the only country to intertwine patriotism into sporting events. It also didn't start with the interjection of the Start Spangled Banner. That is a very narrow scope you are putting things in. It's a time-honored tradition across the globe.

[MineralMan]

28. I see. Real good, then.

So, I have only been around for 72 years. Maybe you can give me a link that demonstrates what you are claiming. I provided you with one, as it regards the US National Anthem and sporting events. So, please show me some evidence of what you claim about your "hundreds or thousands" of years. Thanks. I'll wait here.

[MineralMan]

29. You know, I did some checking and found out

that playing of national anthems at the Olympic games didn't start until 1924. Link below:

http://www.nationalanthems.info/oly.htm

And here's some historical information about national anthems in general that might be of interest to you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_anthem

From that link: "They are played on national holidays and festivals, and have also come to be closely connected with sporting events. Wales were the first country to adopt this, during a rugby game against New Zealand in 1905. "

So, the very first known use of a national anthem at a sporting event appears to be only 112 years ago, in Wales. It's interesting what you discover when you actually look into things, isn't it?

Hundreds of years? No, not really. Not anywhere.

So, I don't really believe there is any evidence of what you claim. If you have other evidence, I'll be happy to look at it.

[Weekend Warrior]

30. I find it hard to believe you are making the case that patriotism...

Hasn't been a part of sporting events for over a thousand years. You are now limiting your scope to the point of being pointless.

[MineralMan]

31. As I said, show me.

Links. I'll check them out, I promise, but you have to show me. You made the claim. You demonstrate it. I'm done.

[Weekend Warrior]

34. I don't think you are serious.

To think that you don't believe that gladiators have come into events a thousand years ago with their rulers crest on their shield. That they don't first recognize that ruler when entering the arena. That they didn't build up support from the nation they were representing. That the people didn't show up with patriotism in mind and that it wasn't on full display.

I think this is just funny.

[MineralMan]

38. You don't think? OK. I don't care.

Really. I'm talking in this thread about today and this particular thing.

Which ruler's crest should NFL players be wearing? They're not representing their country in those games. They're representing the owners of their team, the city they play in at home games, some sports equipment manufacturers and their agents at games, not the nation. Both teams involved are doing that. They wear those crests, not the national emblem.

None of this patriotic nonsense started until about 100 years ago, not hundreds or thousands of years ago. I'm done.

[tonedevil]

32. How about the point...

that regardless of tradition it is completely bogus? There is no reason for interjecting patriotism into American Football or Baseball or Basketball or Hockey. If you say the reason is it's always been that way you haven't provided a reason just an excuse.

[Weekend Warrior]

33. I don't think it is completely bogus.

I think it's an excellent marketing tactic that falls in line with their goals. Kap doesn't seem to think it's bogus either. He understands its meaning.

[nykym]

35. The practice of having players on the field

during the national anthem

"Late last month, as the country was only just becoming consumed by Colin Kaepernick, Tom E. Curran of Comcast Sportsnet New England reported that, actually, NFL players did not typically stand for the national anthem until 2009. Somehow this escaped many of us until, uh, Stephen A. Smith highlighted it this morning on First Take.

Responding to a tip from one of his "boys," Smith brought up the fact that until 2009—eight years and a new Presidential administration after 9/11—players weren't on the field for the national anthem and instead generally remained in the locker room. According to Smith's boy (and the researcher at ESPN who checked it), the switch happened "because it was seen as a marketing strategy to make the athletes look more patriotic." Source: https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/yp89dj/stephen-a-smith-points-out-nfls-paid-patriotism-problem

[Weekend Warrior]

36. That is a part of it.

As I said, a solid marketing tool that is in line with their business.

[tonedevil]

37. Enjoy this...

your final refuge.

[Wounded Bear]

14. I have to agree with you...

makes sense to me.

[grossproffit]

15. True. It's a religious event...for many.

[gratuitous]

17. Our national religion

Here in the land of the High Church of Redemptive Violence. You think snake handlers, glossolaliaists, and whirling dervishes are religious fanatics? They aren't a patch on our nation's faith in the power of violence to save any situation. When Candidate Trump was calling for us to "bomb the shit out of" anyone who displeased us, he was appealing to the very foundation of our national religion.

And, like any religion, it has a prescribed liturgy, normative behaviors for adherents, and punishment for apostates and heretics. There are high priests, devoted practitioners, and casual observers who are encouraged to greater fervency. There is also no shortage of proctors, critically scrutinizing all practices and expressions of faith for any trace of wavering or heterodoxy.

[Johnny2X2X]

16. Nationalism

Nationalism is the threat. And we are way way down the rabbit hole on that issue.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

18. I've never understood why the national anthem is obligatory

before all sporting events. We don't go through that ritual for other non-governmental events, so why sports? But the current controversy isn't really about football but about the right of all citizens to engage in peaceful protest, and I'm glad to see the players and the NFL pushing back.

The president*, of course should be spending his time dealing with things like the disaster in Puerto Rico (which he doesn't seem to know is a part of the U.S., inhabited by American citizens) instead of tweeting insults to anyone who annoys him, including that other nutball with nuclear weapons.

[Gothmog]

19. The NFL is not a patriotic event

[onenote]

39. Agreed. Why don't we play the national anthem before movies or theater or concerts

Why don't employees and patrons at a grocery store have to stop and stand at attention for a rendition of the Star Spangled Banner before the first donut is rung up at the register?

And back in the day when the only time (other than baseball games) the national anthem was regularly performed it was right before a tv station signed off. I bet the folks complaining about disrespect for the flag (or their parents) didn't jump up and stand at attention --- I bet most of them just turned off the anthem and went to bed. Disrespect.

[TheFrenchRazor]

40. this; it really makes a mockery of patriotism to associate it with professional sports. nt