Would we be better off if kids pledged allegiance to the Constitution

[Algernon Moncrieff]

...instead of the flag?

Maybe:

I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America

And to our rights, endowed by our Creator

One nation, united, with liberty and justice for all

Maybe the next generation should focus on what the nation is really about. Not stars and stripes; not Bald Eagles; but the ideal of representative government, freedom, and tolerance.

[rzemanfl]

1. The pledge has been a farce since they snuck in "under God" in 1954. n/t

Last edited Thu Sep 28, 2017, 08:45 AM - Edit history (1)

[lastlib]

25. (When I say it, I say "One nation under LAW...")

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

27. The "under God" was put in in 1954.

I was in first grade in a Catholic school at the time, and I recall the nuns being very unhappy about that. They understood exactly what was meant and intended by the separation of Church and State.

[rzemanfl]

35. I stand corrected and will corrrect my post. n/t

[shraby]

2. We would be better off teaching them what is written in the Constitution.

[DK504]

9. Exactly, a little civics classes would help every one.

Maybe make their parents and some Congressional members take the classes

[Yupster]

26. Hear, hear

People don't seem to have any idea what is written in the Constitution.

[HeartachesNhangovers]

3. I honestly don't think kids think much

about the things that they are required to recite on a regular basis. It isn't until they are past the reciting age that they may possibly do some critical thinking about things like this.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

6. People that swear oaths to defend the Constitution don't think much about it

See: Trump, Donald J.

[monmouth4]

4. "And to our rights, endowed by our Creator"..I have a problem with that one..n/t

[Algernon Moncrieff]

8. It's an allusion to Jefferson and the Declaration of Independence

"...that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

[Voltaire2]

19. We are by our constitution an explicitly secular nation.

An oath demand allegiance to that document while invoking religious imagery is a clear example of why oath swearing is mindless nonsense.

[Igel]

21. No, we have, by our constitution, a federal government that doesn't take sides in religious disputes

There's a difference between the federal government's stance and the stance of either states or the populace at large.

Unless we want to say that the government is the nation, and the rest of us are somehow parasitic.

[WinkyDink]

33. The US Constitution says nothing about "taking sides." Moreover, it supersedes all state laws. Your

"parasitic" comment? What?

Yes, we are an explicitly secular nation. It is why the US President is not "Defender of the Faith." It is why our taxes support public schools. It is why we have no State ("national&quot religion. A citizen can believe or not, in anything, without fear of government reprisal.

The US Constitution was written not by fervent Christians but by Deists, men of the Enlightenment. They'd had it with religious wars.

That we still take government oaths on the Bible is a vestigial tradition that one may waive, but none dares to.

[Voltaire2]

34. or establish or prohibit free exercise

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

Earlier it prohibits religious tests for office.

And yet the op would require an explicitly religious oath of allegiance to that constitution.

[Mariana]

5. I think we would be better off

if kids weren't pressured to recite a pledge to anything at school.

[cbreezen]

7. I explained the history of the insertion of the phrase "under God" to my son..

and explained that I cover my heart, but omit those words. I told him he could make his own choice, but to be aware of peer pressure. I agree with Newdow.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

11. I think mids are presented with a symbol, and not much meaning behind it

We fly a flag because we love the country. We love the country because it tries ( and often fails) to offer liberty and justice. Is the country "under God?" Jefferson wrote that the rights were endowed by a Creator. The country was constituted by wealthy white males, many of whom held slaves. They succeded in spite of themselves.

My mom went to school in the 30s. She says the pledge just sounds weird with that line inserted. On the other hand, they did sort of a straight armed salute to the flag that looked Naxi-like. Irony: they goose step like the Nazis did at the Tomb of the Unknowns.

[Igel]

22. It wasn't a Nazi-like when it started.

People hadn't come to identify that particular symbol with just the Nazis, to the extent that it could be identified in no other way.

The symbol by itself is meaningless. There's no reason that it can't have another meaning attached to it. It's just that we won't let that particular bit of symbolism fade. It's too useful.

[Act_of_Reparation]

10. We would be better off if we pledged allegiance to each other.

Flags and pieces of paper are inanimate. Philosophies age and become obsolete. The need for true civic responsibility -- the understanding that we must always try to do what is in our collective best interest -- will never go away.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

12. We currently live in a society where blood relatives can't stay friends on Facebook

You're heart is in the right place. I think what you say is the theory behind churches ( and in some cases, the practice). Maybe we could start by pledging to help all citizens of the US impacted by disasters beyond their control?

[LeftyMom]

13. Let's stop engaging in mindless loyalty pledges

Or inflicting them on children who can barely parse the vocabulary.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

14. I think a pledge to the Constitution is less mindless than a pledge to the flag

If you are going to indoctrinate kids, go with what matters.

We are debating this in the friendly confines of DU. Meanwhile, about 1/3 of America is losing their damn minds over whether people sit or kneel during an English drinking song rewritten about the bombardment of Fort McHenry.

[Voltaire2]

18. How about teaching them about the constitution

instead of forcing them to swear an oath to it?

[Algernon Moncrieff]

38. I don't think anyone is "forced" to say the pledge to the flag currently

I went to high school when dinosaurs (by which I mean Ronald Reagan) roamed the earth, and you weren't forced to say it then.

I hear many people complain that kids don't say it all in school.

[Voltaire2]

17. No shit.

[Jake Stern]

15. Here's my "Pledge of Allegiance":

"I pledge allegiance to my family and those friends who have never betrayed my trust, with love and respect for all"

That doesn't require quasi-religious flag worshipping idolatry, mindless displays of nationalism or 19th Century poems set to music.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

16. How about just teach them and let them grow up to make their own decisions, rather than having them

engage in rote recitations to make grownups happy?

[kerry-is-my-prez]

20. We said it in grade school and had no idea what it was about nor did we care. It was a joke to us.

We looked upon us as some goofy thing that the teachers were making us do. I'm sure kids nowadays would have even less of an idea of what it's all about.

[jcmaine72]

23. Why do we have to "Pledge Allegiance" to anything?

Forcing children at an early age to participate in such archaic and ridiculous purity tests only serves to inculcate in them feelings of bigotry, jingoism, tribalism, and a witch hunt mentality that's usually directed at demonized minorities.

[X_Digger]

24. Hell, I'd be happy if they actually understood it.

I think there should be a $500 tax credit for taking and passing an online civics class, to include things like the distribution of power in the government, checks and balances, how a law is made, etc.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

28. We don't need a pledge to either.

Back when it began it was more or less innocuous. Then the "under God" was inserted, which was an abomination. As long ago as the 1940's the Supreme Court understood that no one could be forced to say the Pledge.

It really comes under the defining characteristics of fascism: constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia.

[cpamomfromtexas]

29. Bravo. Mind if we share?

[JI7]

30. we would be better off if we actually taught what these things are and the history of it

teach about the flag . teach the constitution. teach how they came about .

[Cicada]

31. Let's pledge to making the world better for all

[WinkyDink]

32. Freedom means NO PLEDGE of ANY KIND.

[DLevine]

36. +1

[NobodyHere]

39. Freedom means you can pledge to whatever you want

or not pledge at all.

[bluepen]

37. How about just learn about the Constitution and forget ritual?