2nd challenge filed against generator requirement

[mfcorey1]

A second industry group has filed a legal challenge against an effort by Gov. Rick Scott's administration to require nursing homes and assisted-living facilities to quickly install generators that can power air-conditioning systems.

The Florida Assisted Living Association, which represents more than 500 facilities across the state, filed the challenge this week in the state Division of Administrative Hearings.

The organization LeadingAge Florida, which represents nursing homes and assisted-living facilities, filed a challenge earlier in the week.

At the direction of Scott, the state Agency for Health Care Administration and the state Department of Elder Affairs issued emergency rules to require generators after the deaths this month of residents of a Broward County nursing home that lost air conditioning because of Hurricane Irma.

Under the emergency rules, nursing homes and assisted-living facilities have 45 days to submit plans that would involve acquiring generators to ensure temperatures could be maintained at 80 degrees or cooler for 96 hours after losing electricity.

Nursing homes and assisted-living facilities would have to carry out the plans within 60 days.

But industry officials contend it is unrealistic to expect that nursing homes and assisted-living facilities could add generators in such a short period of time.

Both challenges also contend the state did not follow proper administrative procedures in issuing the rules.

https://www.news4jax.com/news/2nd-challenge-filed-against-generator-requirement

[Lochloosa]

1. As an Electrictrician, the time frame is not doable.

[retread]

2. Explain. I am ignorant about the process. If the equipment was on site, it would just

be a matter of days to wire up the generator and transfer switch and run tests? Correct?

[Lochloosa]

5. Depends on the size of the complex.

Are there multiple buildings with individual services? Is the fire alarm system integrated with the a/c system. I could go on.

Also, if it's a large complex a generator large enough to handle the load can take up to 16 weeks to get. I know. I've bought them.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

7. I'm not electrician, but I can see a lot of obstacles.

1) Lead times in ordering equipment and parts. It takes a huge generator to run a whole facility of those sizes. These are not off-the-shelf items. Each one is customized according to needs.

2) Site preparation: Generator has to go onto a pad or on a roof. That has to be designed, engineered, checked for code and strength. Then it has to be dug, and built.

3) Fuel storage. Three days of operation consumes a lot of fuel which has to be stored on site. This has to be designed, engineered, checked for code & strength. There are safety and security considerations when storing such a large volume of fuel. There has to be access roads installed so that the tanks can be refueled.

Most building generation systems are based on the idea that they would run for just a few hours, enough time to enable shutting down equipment and transferring key operations to a secondary locale.

4) Installation: Cranes and such have to be scheduled. They are already busy building other things and are scheduled out months in advance.

5) You don't just plug in a 600 volt 1000 amp generator (or whatever the specs would be) into a spare socket in a panel and walk away. Such current and voltage has safety requirements and needs extra circuit breakers capable of handling it. You might have to install a completely new electrical panel. The cabling is coming from outside and there will be alterations to the building to allow access.

You don't just get a "contractor" with a Skil saw to cut a hole in the wall and patch it up with foam and goop.

It goes on and on like that. Thousands of details. I'm sure competent people would easily add five more top level items as big as the ones I just listed.

[FSogol]

11. +1. Most buildings don't have a transfer switch. For anything bigger than a residential style

building, it is a big job. Additionally, most organizations will want to bid the work out to get a good price.

[Purveyor]

6. Like hell it is. 2 weeks should be adequate FFS. Not like the entire electrical system

needs to be reengineered.

But then I work in the real world where when something needs to get done, it gets done.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

8. For older facilities, yes, electrical system, or at least the central part might have to be.

Yeah, want to put a generator into one site, it can be done.

500 sites all at the same time? Get real. See my post #7.

[Lochloosa]

9. I also live in the real world

As an electrician, estimator, project manager and purchasing manager with 40 years experience, I say it can't be done in that time frame. Sure you might get a few places with adequate back up in a few weeks, but the instant you hit something larger than a 600 amp service with 3 phase power you won't make it.

You couldn't get the specs written in two weeks.

[FSogol]

10. Translation: Hey Daryl, git yer pick up 'n some duct tape. We gots new fangled generators 2 install!

[Purveyor]

13. Would it have saved some 12+ lives, yeah... I'll go with the "duct tape" every time.

[FSogol]

14. You really think every facility has a residential style a/c unit that can be run off a home depot

generator.



"That's what I would have done!"

[sinkingfeeling]

3. How are the nursing homes and ALFs supposed to pay for them? I know

how expensive gas powered generators are for IT shops.

[Sailor65x1]

4. I always thought they should have already been required but,

I agree with the other posters. Very unrealistic time frame since you would automatically create an equipment shortage out of the gate. And the labor hours involved would swallow the workforce quickly

[onethatcares]

12. the time limit is to submit a plan

not to rework the entire system in 45 days.

[DrDan]

15. 60 days - around the first of December - not exactly the time when a/c is a priority - even in Fl

how about installed by first of May?

[Generic Other]

16. At the very least there needs to be a plan and a safe area for public buildings

a space in every public building where the elderly and staff can be comfortably sheltered in an emergency. One large self-contained area in every public building. The dining rooms usually can fit everyone. Retro-fit those areas first. They should have an area in every home as strong as the schools where people shelter.

Of course it costs money and takes time. And will to provide for the safety of the vulnerable.