I saw a report that said the range from Mandalay Bay to

[MineralMan]

the concert venue was about 400 yards. What that means is that the asshole was just shooting into the crowd in general as a target. Random victims in a closely packed audience. Somehow, that makes it all seem worse to me. Sheer random murder is as scary as it gets.

I hope we get some additional information on the thought processes that led to this, but I imagine it will take a few days before we hear anything definitive.

This was an act of terror, by definition, but why that man in his 60s started firing remains to be discovered.

[Girard442]

1. "Good guys with guns"...

...would have been less than useless, even in the most wildly optimistic scenario.

[LuckyCharms]

2. Yep. Intuitively, I would not think he would be effective that far away,

but I know nothing about firearms.

This guy determined that his weapon of choice would be able to kill at that range, and then just started spraying the crowd apparently.

[MineralMan]

7. A .223 round is still deadly well beyond that distance.

But, at 400 yards, there's no aiming at individuals with any expectation of success from a typical AR-15 design. The crowd, however, is an easy target at that range, so he was probably just aiming at the crowd in general and at different parts of it. If, as is reported, he was using full auto fire, targeting individuals was never the goal. It's random mayhem, and that was what was intended, I'm sure.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around someone shooting random people in a crowd like that. Something is broken in that man's head, but I don't know what it is. This is, for me, the very scariest kind of mass violence, since it has no reason in it at all. It is the kind of thing that makes me feel very vulnerable, despite the long odds of ever being in that situation.

[LuckyCharms]

11. I understand. Depraved indifference is impossible for regular people to comprehend.

If he did indeed "just snap"...well, my question would be why did he snap and what can we do to prevent it from happening ever again?

Sometimes when I am driving down a single lane road, with another lane coming toward me, I wonder if the person coming toward me if going to lose his mind and jerk his wheel to the left.

[sarisataka]

19. 400 yards is well

Within the effective range. The book says 550 yards but I have been on the range where we went farther out, simulating ME desert conditions, and found the rifles are accurate beyond the stated maximum.

Trying to identify a specific person at that range, without optical aid, is impossible. Clearly he targeted no one in particular but was totally random.

[CincyDem]

20. Knowing the landscape there, the phrase "fish in a barrel" comes to mind. n/t

[Wounded Bear]

21. I put 10 of 10 in the black at 1000 meters over open sights...

Just sayin'. A shooter, not in distress and with just a little training can hit a human sized target from quite a distance.

I don't disagree with the randomness and terroristic nature of the act.

Welcome to our game-topia.

[MineralMan]

23. In my hunting days, long ago,

I hunted deer in the Sierra Nevada mountains. It was rare to have a shot at less than 200 yards, which is where the scope on my rifle was sighted in.

[Not Ruth]

38. From the 32nd floor, a golf ball hit with a 3 wood is deadly

The location was chosen for a reason.

[Hoyt]

3. This is the kind of junk that led Australia to bite the bullet in 1996 and severely restrict guns.

Trump will encourage gunners, and Roy Moore will whip his out and fire up the deplorables. We'll do nothing, and in a decade there will be another 100 Million guns on the streets.

[Baconator]

4. Terror is for a political purpose...

[MineralMan]

8. Not always, it's not. People terrorize other people with alarming

frequency, and not just for political reasons.

[Baconator]

12. Terrorism then...

Things can be scary or awful but an "act of terrorism" is what I was talking about.

That is for a political purpose.

[atreides1]

29. According to NRS 202.4415, it's terrorism!!!

NRS 202.4415 “Act of terrorism” defined.
1. “Act of terrorism” means any act that involves the use or attempted use of sabotage, coercion or violence which is intended to:
(a) Cause great bodily harm or death to the general population; or
(b) Cause substantial destruction, contamination or impairment of:
(1) Any building or infrastructure, communications, transportation, utilities or services; or
(2) Any natural resource or the environment.
2. As used in this section, “coercion” does not include an act of civil disobedience.
(Added to NRS by 2003, 2947)

What you and others are using is the definition as applied by the federal government!

[ck4829]

13. And who decided that?

Was it by the same figures who have supporters who called this shooter a leftist and/or a convert to Islam?

If so in any way, I think it's fine to question or even reject this definition.

[Baconator]

16. Not every act of violence is an act of terrorism...

Then it just becomes a meaningless term.

[Glassunion]

30. From a legal perspective it is clearly defined

You're more than welcome to call it an act of terrorism. On the NV state level, what this guy did, does indeed fit into their definition of an act of terror. However, what he did does not fit the federal definition.

The federal government has it clearly defined, especially after 9/11 and the Patriot Act. It is clearly defined because the act allows for the government to deny certain rights. Indefinite detention, without trial or right to counsel namely being the big one.

[Cracklin Charlie]

5. Why would anyone need this type of weapon?

It seems designed for this outcome.

[MineralMan]

9. Well, there's no good reason at all for

owning such a weapon, except during wartime. None.

[Orrex]

26. Because freedom. Or some other bullshit slogan

Really, there is absolutely no reason beyond that.

[3catwoman3]

34. No good reason at all.

NONE!

[bdamomma]

6. I am curious about the motive too.

nt

[MineralMan]

15. We may never know that motive, though.

Unless the man communicated something to someone else, we'll never really know. However, it's likely that some people who know him will be able to provide some clues about motive.

There are, sadly, people who build up rage silently within themselves and do not share it or the reasons for it with anyone. He apparently acquired a number of firearms and, also apparently, managed to make at least one of those capable of fully automatic fire. Those acts are deliberate, and probably are related to whatever rage he felt.

Why he chose this particular place and time to vent his rage in such a deadly fashion may never be known. If he did not reveal that level of rage to anyone, it may always be a mystery. It was clearly planned, though. People don't just take multiple firearms and the amount of ammo that was expended up to hotel rooms in Vegas. I'm certain the guy went there with this kind of mayhem in mind, and may have planned to attack that event in particular for some reason I don't understand.

His brother, who apparently only had sporadic contact with him said, "He was just a guy." Such descriptions are not uncommon with people who do such things. "He was a quiet guy." "Good neighbor." "Never caused any problems." You hear things like that often after someone does irrational violence.

I hope we learn more, but I'm also ready to not ever know.

[SharonAnn]

24. Why? My bet is girlfriend problems and gambling losses.

[MineralMan]

25. I have no idea.

The person who actually knew is dead by his own hand.

It's a pity that such people don't shoot themselves first, instead of trying to kill others before committing suicide.

If we do learn his motive, it still won't make any sense, really.

[3catwoman3]

36. "It's a pity that such people don't shoot themselves first."

That thought occurs to me every time there is one of these horrific incidents.

And how awful that we even have to say "every time."

[MineralMan]

41. That always occurs to me, too.

Sadly, it's all too common.

[Not Ruth]

46. Plenty of people do shoot themselves, makes one wonder at the impact if they did not

Many enlightened countries allow suicide.

[bdamomma]

32. could be

the girlfriend needs to be questioned pronto.

[mainstreetonce]

27. What about his father?

His father was a big time criminal.
Was he trying to outdo his father's reputation?

[MineralMan]

28. I have no idea.

It's all speculation. The shooter doesn't appear to have been someone who put his thoughts into words, so we probably will never really know what motivated him.

[Not Ruth]

35. Apparently he was considered the least angry person in his family

The most fascinating thing about him is this quote from his brother. Who says something like this?

"The children’s mother was left to raise the family on her own. They moved around the country, from Iowa to Tucson to Southern California, another brother, Patrick Paddock II, of Tucson, said. Stephen Paddock’s behavior did not offer any indication of violent tendencies, the brother said.

“He was the least violent in the family during my childhood. So, it’s kind of like, ‘Who?’ ” Comparing himself to his brother, he said, “I have much more anger.”"

[MineralMan]

39. Yes. Apparently, he didn't share his anger and rage

with others. That's not uncommon, sadly. You often hear, "He was a quiet guy, a loner. We never had any problem with him."

When rage builds up inside a person and that person has no outlet for it, it can become overwhelming, even if nobody else knows about it. From what I can see, the shooter did not share his thoughts with others in the ways most of us do. No safety valve to release the pressure.

[3catwoman3]

40. "...the least violent in the family," is an odd thing to say.

No one in my family of origin is violent in any way, nor in the family my husband and I have created. Nor would I expect anyone to be.

[Lotusflower70]

10. It's horrifying

That sense of vulnerability and helplessness as a mass murderer goes on a rampage. It's maddening.

[mucifer]

14. Random murder happens a lot here in Chicago. Children and adults dying from stray bullets.

It's terrifying how people have to live day to day in that kind of fear.

[MineralMan]

18. Yes. It happens here in the Twin Cities, too.

However, those are deaths that are usually caused by people trying to shoot someone other than the victim, and are limited in the number of casualties. This Vegas incident is truly unprecedented in its scale and the group that was attacked.

I don't know what will come from this. I hope it doesn't just slip into history, though, without some action being taken about decreasing the possibility of someone doing something like this again.

I'm thinking we may see some increased security measures in large hotels over this. "What's in your bag sir? It has set off our metal detectors. Would you mind opening it up for inspection? You won't? Well, in that case, I'm afraid we cannot accommodate you with a room in our hotel. This security officer will escort you out of the building."

[Not Ruth]

45. Chicago use predictive policing in the form of a strategic subject list

to inform people that they will be shooters or victims. Does not sound random. It is controversial.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-chicago-police-violence-strategy-met-20160722-story.html

[FakeNoose]

17. If his wife (or companion) turns up maybe we'll know a little more

On the other hand, if she knew he was going to do this, why didn't she notify the authorities?

I'm really sick and tired of the NRA acting like this is all OK, situation normal. This is not OK and it's not normal.
No other country in the world is dealing with this phenomenon of "deranged" people shooting innocent victims in droves.
We have all the proof we need that the NRA is completely wrong.

[bdamomma]

37. the NRA

is totally smug about the whole thing about mass murder shootings, it's like they do not care, and stick up for their filthy organization. The 2nd amendment is being over played too much. These guns are specified for war, not for civilian use and killing innocent people, innocent American people.

Domestic Terrorism that is what it is and no one is saying that being perpetrated by White American males.

[3catwoman3]

47. "...it's like they do not care."

They DO NOT care.

[Motley13]

22. this report shows the trajectory

http://abcnews.go.com/US/50-dead-400-injured-las-vegas-deadliest-shooting/story?id=50223240

It is amazing that the police realized where the shots came from & got there as fast as they did, it could have been much, much worse.

[Not Ruth]

31. Go to the 32nd floor and look at the street

You will see ants. Random ants.

[MineralMan]

33. Yes, pretty much.

Some people step over lines of ants when they notice them. Others step on them. I'm in the first group. The shooter was part of the second group.

[Adrahil]

42. Yes....

The bumpfire stock he was using makes it nearly impossible to pick out individual targets at that range. He pointed it at a mass of humanity and pulled the trigger. He could hardly miss. Makes me nauseous!

[MineralMan]

43. I'm guessing that he was pissed off at all of humanity.

The randomness of this whole thing is frightening and horrifying.

That's the thing that strikes me the hardest.

[Adrahil]

44. Me too.

Especially in the Age of Trump, it just seems like so many angry old white men are powder kegs waiting for a spark.

Makes me suspicious of all the rest of my fellow old white men!