Uh-oh! I'd hate to be this doctor...

[Towlie]

https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/the-strip/las-vegas-strip-shooter-prescribed-anti-anxiety-drug-in-june/

Stephen Paddock, who killed at least 58 people and wounded hundreds more in Las Vegas on Sunday with high-powered rifles, was prescribed an anti-anxiety drug in June that can lead to aggressive behavior, the Las Vegas Review-Journal has learned.

...

Records from the Nevada Prescription Monitoring Program obtained Tuesday show Paddock was prescribed 50 10-milligram diazepam tablets by Henderson physician Dr. Steven Winkler on June 21.

Nothing can be done to Stephen Paddock, who's already dead, but someone has to pay, and it might turn out that this unlucky doctor has drawn the short straw.

EDIT: Obviously I don't personally believe that "someone has to pay", I'm just saying that it's the way people tend to look at it.

[HipChick]

1. Why would the dr pay?

If he had been under treatment...
Who can predict what reactions are going to be?

[Towlie]

22. I absolutely agree! Please see the edit I added for those who misunderstood me.

[BigmanPigman]

2. Many drugs come with similar warnings. If the info was provided to him via a pharmacist,

his doctor, or the drug manufacturer in writing then no one will pay. This is all on Paddock.

[HipChick]

4. Exactly...

[Hassin Bin Sober]

11. We'll see.

I wouldn't be surprised to see suits against the Doctor, the Mandalay Bay, the drug manufacturer or the City.

Not saying they would be justified. But someone might settle.

[Orrex]

15. Don't hold your breath, alas

Paddock almost certainly signed something either when submitting or picking up his prescription that indemnifies the pharmacist and pharmacy from responsibility. Either he acknowledges that they explained the side effects to him (and these were likely included with the drugs when he picked them up) or he explicitly and formally declined to have them explained to him.

This is fairly standard, in fact, even when picking up antibiotics or birth control.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

21. Any drug that's ever showed to have adverse side effects has the same disclosures.

Yet people still sue and win or get settlements.

Again, I'm not saying I agree or think it is right. Nor am I holding my breath. But I do understand the deep pockets theory. And no one wants to be seen as the bad guy in these high profile tragedies.

I'm certain there are some lawyers right now looking for some angle for a deep pocket to share liability with the shooter.

[Orrex]

32. Sounds like we agree completely

Sadly, I'm confident that a single horror like this one won't result in a settlement, because it will be dismissed as an anomaly (in much the same way that gun advocates tend to dismiss mass shootings when discussing gun regulation, incidentally. But a mass killing by a vehicle is somehow emblematic of the raw lethality of all vehicles, etc.).

It would take a pattern of similarly aggressive behavior before anyone could make an actionable case against pharmaceutical companies, which will almost certainly entail no admission of fault. Otherwise they'll claim that Paddock is an extreme aberration that no one could have predicted.

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

39. Yes. A suit doesn't have to have merit to cause a settlement.

Most times it's cheaper. And in tragedies like this it is better PR.

The Sandy Hook shooter's mom's home insurance settled for full policy amount even though there are all kinds of disclaimers for criminal acts committed by you or your invited guests. What insurance company wants to go up against that.

In a less serious matter: My partner had a bicyclist riding the wrong way down a one way street slam in to his car door broad side. No lights or reflectors.

The bicyclist apologized profusely. The cop made no reports. No injuries. Didn't contact his insurance.

When my partner came home I said "you know you are going to get sued, yes?" He hit the ceiling. No fucking way. He blew through an intersection the wrong way!!!

The next day we get we get a call from the guy. "My family thinks I should go to the hospital to get checked out"

Our insurance settled with him. Never did get the amount. I'm guessing $3-5 thousand. With a lawyer involved on his side it would be closer to $20k.

[Orrex]

41. Ick. Yeah, doesn't surprise me. (nt)

[R B Garr]

29. Let me guess. The gun corporations are exempt from lawsuits because

that's what some Senator's voted for? But it's okay for other corporations to be sued.

[klook]

3. There's another thread on this, where it's pointed out that

the drug is in the same family as Valium -- hardly a reliable trigger for murderous behavior.

[moriah]

20. The drug IS Valium. ;)

Now, abrupt withdrawal from a high dose can cause psychosis.

If that's the only script he was given, it's unlikely he was that hooked.

I certainly wouldn't want to be that doctor just because I'd be questioning myself about why I didn't see it, why I bought whatever explanation he gave for being stressed out, why I didn't do more....

But I certainly don't think he should be made to "pay" any more than the brother who didn't see it after helping him move, etc.

[Siwsan]

5. Why on earth would the writer of this article feel the need to quote Kirstie Alley!?!?

Makes me wonder if he is a scientologist.

I didn't see anything in the article that said he was currently taking the medication. I'm more interested in learning if there was any invasive brain pathology. I'm not sure how easy that will be to find, depending on the extent of his self inflicted head wound. This just sounds so much like the Charles Whitman case.

[Orrex]

33. Yeah, that was weird.

It struck me more as pointing out Alley's freakishly inappropriate comment, rather than endorsing it.

But still, why mention her at all?

[longship]

34. You are right. Scientologists are mental health denialists.

They are all about thetans and Xenu and his deadly volcano. That, and ripping off rich Hollywood actors and turning their brains into mush-push. However, mental health is somehow rubbish. And L. Ron's SciFi wet dreams are really, really true.

Really! Just ask Kirstie and Tom Cruise and a whole lot of other Hollywood idiots.

[Siwsan]

35. I've been watching the Leah Remini Scientology series on A&E

I'd read quite a bit about them, but watching her show is a real eye opener.

My niece is getting married in Clearwater, in January. I think I'll avoid wandering around that town, since it is Scientology Central.

[Weekend Warrior]

6. Someone other than the victims will most likely have to pay. I agree with you there.

Unfortunately, that means someone else might simply be a victim for reasons of vengeance. We see it often.

[BigmanPigman]

9. The gun manufacturers, NRA and the legislators

Last edited Wed Oct 4, 2017, 11:46 AM - Edit history (1)

who protect gun sales with laws are the ones who should have to pay. They are as guilty as the murderer themselves. Whether it is a single murderer and one victim or a single shooter with multiple murders it is still a shooting by mass murderers (GOP/NRA). They didn't directly do it but they definately made sure that it did happen and will again and again.

[Weekend Warrior]

10. Yes!!! Yes!!! Yes!!! nt.

[R B Garr]

31. Agreed, but let's watch as the gun corporations are exempt from all that because

of who protected them from lawsuits. The irony of the most evil corporations being protected is just pure hypocrisy.

[LiberalArkie]

7. It is Valium

From the article:
Paddock purchased the drug — its brand name is Valium — without insurance at a Walgreens store in Reno on the same day it was prescribed. He was supposed to take one pill a day



Valium is also an excellent muscle relaxer.

[Iggo]

8. Actually, someone doesn't have to pay.

That's how we get people imprisoned for crimes they didn't commit.

[uppityperson]

12. "Mother's little helper" made him plan this out and do it? Bull

[moriah]

18. Agreed.

Now it might be that the doctor should have asked why he was stressing before throwing him anti-stress pills. But he might have, and Paddock might have said something easily explained. And I'm sure he's asking himself why he didn't see it.

And that's a pretty small script besides, honestly.

[cwydro]

19. Agree.

Valium makes you chill. Puts me to sleep.

[Caliman73]

28. It does different things to different people.

It is a sedative so yes, the intended clinical action is to calm the user. However, it acts on the same neurotransmitters and in a similar way to alcohol so part of the action may lead to disinhibition and diminishing the activity in the judgment center in the brain.

[treestar]

13. You bet

Every time the perpetrator kills themselves, the blame starts getting shifted.

[Towlie]

25. Thanks for understanding what I meant. Many here did not.

[yardwork]

14. No.

[GeorgeGist]

16. Ever studied Critical Thinking?

[Towlie]

23. Woosh!

(That means my post went over your head.)

[B2G]

17. This doesn't mean the meds caused anything.

Maybe what he was being treated for did. I'm sure they will be looking into it.

Just because he was prescribed a med doesn't mean he took it. Perhaps he was OFF his meds at the time, which contributed to his mental condition.

Either way, it's a valuable piece of information.

[Happyhippychick]

24. Sure. Valium made him purchase 47 weapons and carry out the worst mass murder in history

Sounds believable. Not.

[janterry]

26. He won't pay, but s/he DID misdiagnose

and s/he knows that by now. It reveals a larger problem with these drugs (which are addictive and over prescribed).

[B2G]

27. How do you know that? nt

[janterry]

43. People with anxiety disorders

rarely start shooting at thousands of people. (That's the likely dx). Moreover, even if he did have an anxiety dx, his problem was more severe (unremitting) than what should have been treated with valium. I suppose you could have argued for a longterm anti-anxiety med (paxil) since it has anti-depression features.

Valium is usually prescribed for short term effects - not give out as a long term script (not that many psych. MD's don't do the wrong thing.........sigh).

This guy had serious problems and his real dx was more disturbed than anxiety.

Valium and all of the benzo's - as you probably know - are addictive and highly sought after by addicts and legit patients alike.

[madokie]

30. I've never heard of Valium causing

aggressive behavior. Sleeping maybe but aggressive behavior. But then again about all the drugs prescribed has some serious side effects

[inwiththenew]

36. This is why you will never get doctors to sign off on psych evals for gun owners

Way too much liability. This doctor was seeing him and prescribing him medicine and he probably didn't feel like he was an immediate threat to himself or others.

[HockeyMom]

37. Did anything happen to that German Pilot's Doctor,

or the Drug Manufacturer, after he committed suicide taking 100 passengers with him? Paxil Anti-Depressant. Watch the commercials. Adverse side effect. "Thoughts of Suicide". To quote my daughter, "Why do I want to slash my wrists, when I am taking "happy pills"?

Nothing will happen to Paddock's doctor either. This is non-issue. You don't amass an arsenal in one day.

I will say though that any money Paddock has in his estate should go to his victims. Bigger question is how did he amass that much money as an Accountant to retire at 32, buy two homes and all this arsenal, wire his GF $100,000. THAT needs investigation.

[anneboleyn]

40. Yes -- the German pilot. Since there was no "terrorism" (Islamic) related our media dropped the

story relatively quickly. That guy committed suicide by deliberately crashing a jet full of passengers. He killed a large number of people in addition to himself. Yet once there was no apparent "Islamic terrorism" angle the story got dropped by our media. He also clearly planned his action as he waited for the right time to lock the other pilot out of the cockpit and when the plane was above the right terrain so he could take it down relatively quickly and without being intercepted by military jets or anything else that might thwart his plans. To me, it's very similar. I think people just look for "motives" that are out of melodrama and cop shows, not real life.

[oasis]

38. "Guns don't kill people, pills do" look for a NRA press release. nt

[LuckyCharms]

42. Good post because it created some good discussion. My opinion:

Not an expert by any means, but "aggressive behavior" as a side effect is probably akin to something like losing your temper and lashing out over everyday problems.

If we were to look at the controlled studies for the drug, it probably didn't make anyone stockpile weapons and plan an elaborate mass murder. That's not aggressive behavior, but rather, a complete detachment from reality and right vs. wrong.

I really doubt that the drug had any play in this regardless.

I'm really anxious to find out what motivated this guy.