General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsYesterday in youtube chat of a progressive talk show I said:
"Soon not only will abortion be illegal but birth control also, and rape we will be legal again"
Immediately a person jumped on me as being "hyperbolic"
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/05/31/trump-administration-reversing-obamacares-birth-control-mandate/102346078/
https://newrepublic.com/article/120875/republicans-20-week-abortion-ban-relies-rape-culture
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/01/republican-plan-redefine-rape-abortion/
I could go on.
Anyone here believe trump judge and justice picks WONT try and ban abortion, birth control and redefine rape?
Elections have consequences, I sure hope we all learned something.
So, when someone who pays attention, who ALWAYS votes for ANY democrat on the ballot in November, says something like I said, pay the fuck attention. I dont do this for fun, I dont allege trump is trying to kill me and you because that is more fun to do than playing my PlayStation or watching a movie, I do it because he is trying to kill me and you.
I do it because they ARE going to ban women's rights, gay rights, minority rights, voting rights, and destroy the environment. They arent going to try, they ARE.
And there is one tiny barely existing chance we have to stop them. Just one,
1. show up to vote
2. vote for any Democrat, no matter if he or she is the devil or not
3. stop bad mouthing democrats, at least until we get the Nazis out of our white house, eh?
Towlie
(5,328 posts)You lose credibility and your argument loses all effectiveness when you say things like that. It's better to stick to reality.
And what do you mean by "rape will be legal again"? When was it legal before?
enough
(13,264 posts)which is what the third link in the OP is discussing.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,131 posts)Me.
(35,454 posts)How many women have been derided, told they're liars. that they wanted it, should dress more modestly, called whores.....
and then tell me rape isn't becoming legal
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)However there are still 13 states that make some exceptions for marital rape.
http://www.vocativ.com/215942/these-13-states-still-make-exceptions-for-marital-rape/index.html
Cary
(11,746 posts)You're getting awfully close to ad hominem. Elliot is entitled to his opinion and he seems to me have an objectively reasonable argument. When you decree that he loses credibility, you're speaking for others. Who authorized you to speak for them? Not I.
Elliot has maximum credibility and you can't take that away.
BainsBane
(53,082 posts)Less than 3% of rapists are convicted, and the thing is for some that's too much.
When was it legal before hand? Have you never studied history? Rape of wives was legal until a couple of decades ago because women were seen as legal property of their husbands. For centuries, rape was only illegal if a woman was a virgin, and no woman who was not wealthy could be considered of sufficient virtue. Therefore rape was legal in all but very few cases. In fact, legal statutes often designated the crime as "deflowering a virgin" or kidnapping with nefarious intent, rather than rape, which was not itself illegal.
Now it is exceedingly difficult to prosecute rape cases because as we have seen, people will always defend rapists--whether they are a football player on their favorite team, someone like Julian Assange or Woody Allen, they've decided are more valuable than the lives of women and children. And the fact is many people will always consider the lives of rapists they see as part of their side as superior to women, and plenty of women, disgustingly, share that view, as we have seen when liberal/progressive or even Russian shills like Assange are accused of rape. The so-called progressive position on Assange was to deny the rape charges and warrant, willfully refuse to examine any of the legal documents when presented in black and white, and instead ape his comments and those of his lawyers as supposedly factual. It was disgusting and a perfect example of rape culture in action. Even knowing he is a cut out for the Kremlin, we see people continue to defend him because rape is always something that some need to see deligitimated in order to maintain their own power over women, or for women their own status as defined by their attachment to men.
Now Betsy Devos has rolled back the Obama administration's use of Title IX to try to induce college campus to continue to allow rapes to go unpunished, something that has been notorious on virtually every campus in America. We saw men, not just on the right, in outrage over those policies because the lives of the rapists are more valuable than mere women.
We are told women who dress a certain way get what's coming to them, that men shouldn't be held responsible for their own actions, shouldn't have to seek consent or avoid forcing themselves of women who are drunk or unconscious. We've seen people defend videos of men raping women who are passed out. That is the rape culture that we are told doesn't exist.
Anytime anyone dares mention rape culture on this site, we are told the fact that any man is ever punished means that no such thing exists. Not only that, we see constant claims that men are treated unfairly by women who dare to lodge charges of rape.
Rape is essential to the violent enforcement of the established social order. It keeps women in line, just as restrictions on abortion and killings of African Americans do. It is a means of enforcing power and hierarchy. Efforts to prop up and even roll back the social order with white men at the top and women and people of color are experiencing a dramatic resurgence. A rapist sits in the White House, and millions of Americans either voted for him or helped him gain power by attacking a woman who dared to exceed her place and run for president. Yet Trumpism isn't the only attack. Some have seized upon his victories to demand that the Democratic Party abandon civil rights and reproductive rights in favor of the increased wealth and privilege of white men. For all the cries about "establishment," what we see is an unyielding commitment to maintaining the established social order--power and hierarchy that is far stronger and more enduring that any governmental action, hierarchy that goes back centuries. And not only is there renewed commitment to propping up that hierarchy, we see arguments that "economic justice" requires returning to the early-to mid-20th century--that every time when women were property and the Democratic Party enforced Jim Crow and allowed lynchings to go unfettered.
And now, we see the greatest outrage is not that rape goes virtually unpunished but that a poster dares to talk about it the fact he fears it will become legal.
George II
(67,782 posts)....spoke of "legitimate rape"?
sheshe2
(83,953 posts)When it is excused by men in power and sadly some women as well.
Like this...
https://www.ranker.com/list/the-8-most-horribly-insensitive-republican-rape-comments/molly-Mahan
radical noodle
(8,015 posts)All they have to do is change a few rules. DeVos is already working on that in colleges and universities.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,131 posts)from above links
Eliot Rosewater
(31,131 posts)A House bill banning abortions after 20 weeks includes provisions requiring women to report rape to police to qualify for exemptions.
Cary
(11,746 posts)Eliot Rosewater
(31,131 posts)Nick Baumann writes for Mother Jones: Drugged, raped, and pregnant? Too bad. Republicans are pushing to limit rape and incest cases eligible for government abortion funding.
baby steps
Mediumsizedhand
(531 posts)Me.
(35,454 posts)Swimmers got to swim
maxsolomon
(33,432 posts)You're hyberbolic in the rest of this OP as well. Its so easily dismissed as emotional, which is a finger the Right loves to point at us.
There's murder, and there's death caused by depraved indifference. To me the latter is how Republicans "kill".
Don't be a Chicken Little!
lapfog_1
(29,228 posts)but they won't pay for poor women to have access to it... and will (already have) allowed any organization to exclude it from medical insurance coverage.
and it wouldn't surprise me that they limit access to contraception only to married women over the age of 18 (or 21).
I admit that there is a segment of the right (used to be far right, but they are ALL far right now) that wants to ban all contraception methods because they (falsely) believe that they induce "abortions". But I don't think that this group yet represents anywhere near 50% of all republicans.
angrychair
(8,738 posts)But it goes deeper than that as there has been ongoing debates among elected Democrats and even here, that restricting a womens ability to get an abortion or access to birth control in certain cases is legitimate.
2 years ago, a year ago, I would have never thought Id be debating Democrats about why its wrong to restrict a womens reproductive healthcare rights but I have and I am.
Some feel its completely legit to advocate for those type of restrictions if it gets a couple extra Dem votes in certain regions.
No. Not. Ever. No.
Me.
(35,454 posts)ms liberty
(8,609 posts)You use hyperbole to excess regularly, meaning in virtually every post of yours that I've read here at DU. It leads many people to dismiss your views as unreliable and unreasonable, and I am one of those people.
Lecturing people who are as well informed or are better informed than you gets you nothing and nowhere.
And what, pray tell, do you imagine you do in the above post?
Eliot Rosewater
(31,131 posts)the liberal drawing attention to trump trying to kill Obama voters, that is who is the problem
it is so fucking sad it makes me laugh
Hyperbolic, chicken little, all designed to do one thing, to imply the problem isnt as extreme as it is.
But I have been told that over and over, and each day my predictions come true. In fact as negative as I am sometimes I cant even predict how deadly or low these filthy fucking cons will go.
They ARE trying to legalize rape, they ARE trying to outlaw all birth control...
Cary
(11,746 posts)Assume the worst. Appease them at your peril.
mcar
(42,403 posts)Eliot Rosewater
(31,131 posts)But I can barely keep up with how bad it is ACTUALLY getting.