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Fri Nov 3, 2017, 09:29 AM

 

The Democratic Party for Democrats

Let me start out by giving a little background about myself. I'm a union rep who sits on a number of Political Action Committees. I am also the chairman of my city's ward committee for the State Democratic Party. I have attended each state convention as a delegate for the past 16 years. I contribute financially to the party and individual candidates every year. I think that background information is necessary to put my opinion in perspective.

Independents are not Democrats. I love Bernie and his ideas. I, too, am a Socialist at heart. But Bernie was never a Democrat until this past primary season, and he has returned to being an Independent since the election. As I said, I'm a Democrat. That means that I advance the party's agenda in every election, all the time. Sometimes, my candidate loses in the primary, as Hillary did in 2008. I was an ardent Obama supporter the day after Hillary conceded. You see, I know any Democratic President is better than any Republican President, every time. Supreme Court appointments, lesser federal judges, Labor Board appointments, cabinet members, the entire executive branch. I might not get 100% of what I want, but I know I will be happier about my government on more days than not with a Democrat in the White House.

The Democratic Party stands for something. Workers' Rights (my most important issue), but also other social issues I agree with: Women's Rights, Civil Rights, Voting Rights. They will spend our tax dollars on the most vulnerable of our citizens and work for a fairer tax system that is not tilted to the wealthy.

Hillary has been a Democrat for 50 years (just like me). Toiling in the vineyards of partisan politics. Bernie, on the other hand, was an Independent (albeit, as a Senator, he caucuses with the Democrats). But Bill and Hillary went out on the campaign trail for other Democrats who ran for Congress, Senator, Governor and lesser offices. Bill and Hillary raised money, helped get out the vote and infused energy into Democratic campaigns for decades. Many Democratic office holders owe their seats to the Clinton's. Is it that far fetched to think that that loyalty was transferable? "Super Delegates" have that designation because they have held office as Democrats, by campaigning as Democrats, or providing years of service to the Democratic Party.

Bernie, on the other hand, has great ideas, but has not dedicated his political life to the Democratic Party. As a result, the institutional strength of the Hillary campaign, within the party, should be understood by him and his supporters. When the party was struggling, financially, Hillary knew that would have a very negative effect on Democrats winning not only the White House, but elections at every level. Hillary entered the breach. Bernie did not. Did the people whose jobs she saved at the DNC appreciate her efforts. Well, ya, wouldn't you?

Bernie's a great Senator. But, in the end, he's not a Democrat, by his own admission.

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Arrow 87 replies Author Time Post
Reply The Democratic Party for Democrats (Original post)
louis c Nov 2017 OP
stonecutter357 Nov 2017 #1
IADEMO2004 Nov 2017 #2
leftofcool Nov 2017 #3
trueblue2007 Nov 2017 #61
SunSeeker Nov 2017 #4
dlk Nov 2017 #5
Rebl2 Nov 2017 #6
Wounded Bear Nov 2017 #7
NBachers Nov 2017 #8
rainin Nov 2017 #9
billh58 Nov 2017 #11
rainin Nov 2017 #14
billh58 Nov 2017 #16
rainin Nov 2017 #18
billh58 Nov 2017 #19
rainin Nov 2017 #20
billh58 Nov 2017 #23
louis c Nov 2017 #13
rainin Nov 2017 #17
louis c Nov 2017 #22
Blue_Roses Nov 2017 #30
Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #47
rainin Nov 2017 #86
billh58 Nov 2017 #24
louis c Nov 2017 #33
billh58 Nov 2017 #34
Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #49
brush Nov 2017 #43
tonedevil Nov 2017 #52
louis c Nov 2017 #65
Honeycombe8 Nov 2017 #25
Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #50
Honeycombe8 Nov 2017 #64
delisen Nov 2017 #81
FakeNoose Nov 2017 #10
Pepsidog Nov 2017 #12
Sedona Nov 2017 #15
Honeycombe8 Nov 2017 #21
traladeda Nov 2017 #26
Doodley Nov 2017 #27
wyldwolf Nov 2017 #28
moda253 Nov 2017 #41
The Polack MSgt Nov 2017 #42
brush Nov 2017 #44
NYC Liberal Nov 2017 #55
liquid diamond Nov 2017 #56
aka-chmeee Nov 2017 #69
lapucelle Nov 2017 #80
Bleacher Creature Nov 2017 #29
Post removed Nov 2017 #31
MadCrow Nov 2017 #36
louis c Nov 2017 #37
HopeAgain Nov 2017 #32
louis c Nov 2017 #35
Skittles Nov 2017 #45
videohead5 Nov 2017 #38
RiverStone Nov 2017 #40
Hekate Nov 2017 #39
Tarc Nov 2017 #46
Ken Burch Nov 2017 #77
liberalnarb Nov 2017 #48
Vinca Nov 2017 #51
lkinwi Nov 2017 #53
liquid diamond Nov 2017 #54
LittleBlue Nov 2017 #57
revmclaren Nov 2017 #84
guillaumeb Nov 2017 #58
louis c Nov 2017 #66
lkinwi Nov 2017 #70
Wellstone ruled Nov 2017 #59
Gothmog Nov 2017 #60
Madam45for2923 Nov 2017 #62
phylny Nov 2017 #63
ProfessorPlum Nov 2017 #67
louis c Nov 2017 #73
kcr Nov 2017 #83
TarponSnook Nov 2017 #68
louis c Nov 2017 #72
LenaBaby61 Nov 2017 #85
UTUSN Nov 2017 #71
Pacifist Patriot Nov 2017 #74
louis c Nov 2017 #75
Ken Burch Nov 2017 #76
aikoaiko Nov 2017 #78
Blue_true Nov 2017 #79
revmclaren Nov 2017 #82
KY_EnviroGuy Nov 2017 #87

Response to louis c (Original post)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 09:35 AM

1. K&R

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 09:37 AM

2. K&R

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 09:40 AM

3. No argument from me

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Response to leftofcool (Reply #3)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 02:31 PM

61. Bernie's guy JEFF WEAVER is trashing Democrats again

Apparently he just made an anti-Democrat comment on msnbc

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 10:22 AM

4. K & R

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 10:24 AM

5. Well Said!

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 10:27 AM

6. K&R

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 10:31 AM

7. K & R...nt

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 10:34 AM

8. That pretty much puts it all out there, doesn't it?

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 10:34 AM

9. No need to wonder why

Republicans put party before country. At the end of the day, many democrats will too.

I have never understood the party loyalty, personally. I vote on policies I want. If a republican decides to caucus with the democrats and fight for the agenda that I support, great!! I don't understand why all democrats wouldn't want our party to include Independents --- you know, stronger together?

Oh well.

Who will be the first to flame my low post count?

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Response to rainin (Reply #9)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 10:42 AM

11. Actually, you were the first

to flame your low post count. Have a nice day.

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Response to billh58 (Reply #11)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 10:54 AM

14. I didn't flame my

post count. I've just seen many here do that to people who have a low post count. It implies that having a low post count means the opinion is less worthy. I'm sure you've seen it, too.

I hope you have a nice day, too. billh58. Even though, I don't think you really were wishing me a nice day, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

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Response to rainin (Reply #14)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 11:00 AM

16. Sounds like post-count

envy to me...

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Response to billh58 (Reply #16)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 11:04 AM

18. You're sounding very hostile

this morning billh58. Did I say something that got under your skin?

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Response to rainin (Reply #18)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 11:06 AM

19. Not really.

But then again, I'm a Democrat on a Democratic discussion site.

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Response to billh58 (Reply #19)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 11:07 AM

20. Good.

Have a nice day, Billh58.

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Response to rainin (Reply #20)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 11:08 AM

23. I'm so honored

that you approve.

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Response to rainin (Reply #9)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 10:50 AM

13. Well, by your logic, we should allow a Republican to also run for the Democratic nomination

 

We want Independents to join us, but building a political party is a lot of work.

Loyalty means something. It can't be "if I don't get my way, I'm going home". Stay and fight for your cause, but to win that fight, it will probably take more than one election cycle.

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Response to louis c (Reply #13)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 11:03 AM

17. Although your example sounds extreme,

I suppose, if a Republican caucused with the Democrats, and his/her policies lined up so closely with mine.....hummm. I guess I would. Pretty hard to imagine such a scenario, but at the end of the day, I care about policy more than D, I, or R after the name.

We are watching the downside of "loyalty" as a guiding principle playing out in real time on the other side. I think it would be clear to all democrats that loyalty shouldn't be a primary value.



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Response to rainin (Reply #17)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 11:08 AM

22. That strategy is OK when voting in GE, but a Democrat should be a Democrat for more than 14 months..

 

..in order to be the Party's nominee for President.

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Response to louis c (Reply #22)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 11:16 AM

30. Well said

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Response to rainin (Reply #17)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 01:51 PM

47. This is a Democratic site. We don't vote for Republicans under any circumstance.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #47)

Mon Nov 6, 2017, 07:20 PM

86. You're right

It was an extreme example. I've never voted for a republican in my life, and I can't imagine it every happening. Frankly, if someone continues to identify as Republican, it says pretty much all I need to know. They are either ignorant or immoral, IMO.

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Response to louis c (Reply #13)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 11:09 AM

24. Isn't that primarily

how we ended up with Trump?

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Response to billh58 (Reply #24)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 11:31 AM

33. Actually, that's how we ended up with Obama

 

When Hilary was defeated in the 2008 primary, Hilary supporters went all out for Barack. As long time, loyal, devoted Democrats, the democratic nominee could count on us to work as hard in the General as we did for our defeated candidate in the Primary.

When you have an Independent defeated in a primary, that loyalty to party is less of a bond. Too many Sanders' supporters sat out the election, left the presidential option blank or voted for Stein. I'm not saying all or most, but certainly enough to make a difference. Look at the results in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, and you tell me that didn't matter.

As a loyal Democrat, the nominee can always take me for granted, because I know what a binary choice is. It doesn't work when the shoe is on the other foot.

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Response to louis c (Reply #33)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 11:34 AM

34. I totally agree, and I was just

pointing out that the "vote for issues/person, and not Party" mentality was a factor in electing Trump (along with some help from the Russians).

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Response to billh58 (Reply #34)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 01:55 PM

49. That is exactly how Trump won...issues are meaningless if you lose...and our 'friend' who

feels a Republican could in some circumstances be acceptable, is wrong and wooing voters who think like that is doomed to failure.

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Response to louis c (Reply #33)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 01:26 PM

43. Now you're talking. That's exactly it. My if I use that from now on to explain how Sanders...

and his supporters non-loyalty to the Democratic Party hurts us.

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Response to louis c (Reply #33)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 02:05 PM

52. All Hillary supporters...

you may have conveniently forgotten the PUMA movement.

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Response to tonedevil (Reply #52)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 02:52 PM

65. Short lived and Repudiated by the Candidate (NT)

 

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Response to louis c (Reply #13)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 11:11 AM

25. The Dem Party has rules setting forth what a candidate with a "D" by his/her name must have.

It's something along the lines of working for and believing in, supports, etc., the issues/items in the Dem Party Platform, and has for some years....something like that.

So Bernie qualified, but a Republican would not qualify, because if they belong to the Republican Party, he, by definition, is not aligned with the Democratic Party Platform.

The person doesn't have to be a registered Dem, because not all states require registering as one party or another.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #25)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 01:56 PM

50. No independent should be permitted to run as a Democrat ever again after what happened in 16.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #50)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 02:51 PM

64. I would agree with that. It was always confusing, and it is different.

It sets groups against each other, unnecessarily. It could be that the Dem Party owed Sanders.

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Response to rainin (Reply #9)

Mon Nov 6, 2017, 05:34 PM

81. Party Loyalty means building an organization of

like-minded people to develop and achieve common goals and to keep working together on that shared vision over time.

Personal loyalty, such as many supporters of Sanders have toward Sanders and his personal vision and agenda, is different.

Party loyalty has some similarity to the old-fashioned style of patriotism best expressed as: My country right or wrong. When it is right or true, I work to keep it right, when it is wrong, I work to set it right.
Basically I am a member committed to building a shared vision within that framework or, if you will, home or establishment and keeping it going.
I appreciate what it has taken to build it and maintain it. I understand and respect its value.

There is a difference in how people view the Democratic Party., expressed recently here.
Some have said they see the Democratic Party as a vehicle, they have already built their own agenda or political destination and are looking for a bus, a car, a plane - a vehicle to carry them to that self-determined destination.
They think they can use the Democratic Party to get them where they want to go and if at some point they decide it can't-they plan to move on and find a different vehicle.

Others are in it for the long haul. They see the Democratic Party as a home, a place where they meet with other like-minded people and build a shared vision.

They build it and maintain it and if there are points in time when is not meeting their political goals-they don't leave home and say this house was really just a means of transport to get me to my personal political goal, so I am leaving to catch a different bus.

These different views of what a political party is are not going to be reconciled.













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Response to louis c (Original post)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 10:41 AM

10. Well said! Bernie was invited but he didn't accept the invitation

He's not a Democrat, and we need to move on.
He can no longer take advantage of us, and he can't destroy our unity.

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 10:45 AM

12. Words of wisdom for all of us to remember

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 10:58 AM

15. K&R

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 11:07 AM

21. This is true. nt

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 11:13 AM

26. K&R

Excellent post. Thank you.

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 11:14 AM

27. There should be rules such as must be a Democrat for at least three years to run as a candidate.

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 11:16 AM

28. Bernie showed up at the church, refused to join, condemned the members, then asked to be the pastor.

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #28)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 12:24 PM

41. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Everything

 

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #28)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 01:03 PM

42. My oh my.


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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #28)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 01:29 PM

44. Hahahahahahahahahaha! Thanks, I needed a chuckle. You nailed it.

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #28)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 02:12 PM

55. Perfect.

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #28)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 02:16 PM

56. Great analogy.

 

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #28)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 06:03 PM

69. That's sure as hell the way I saw it..

Except it after he could no longer use the party, he started demanding to be pope.

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #28)

Mon Nov 6, 2017, 05:31 PM

80. +++++++++++++

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 11:16 AM

29. You said it perfectly. Thank you! NT

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Response to louis c (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #31)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 11:41 AM

36. I am a registered Democrat

and have been for most of my 77 years. However, I did support and vote for Bernie in the primary . Then like a good and loyal Democrat I voted for Hillary, the party's nominee, in the GE. I always thought that the Democratic party was a big tent party and welcomed everybody, Democrat, Independent, disillusioned Republicans, as long as they adhered to the general principles of the party. I put the good of the country above petty party politics, and I think this bickering and harping on past events is only detrimental to our future success. Enough is enough! Let's move on.

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Response to MadCrow (Reply #36)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 12:03 PM

37. We're talking about who we should nominate, not who should vote for us

 

During a General Election, party loyalty means everything, especially in a close election.

I met too many Bernie people who said they couldn't vote for Trump, but they didn't like Hilary. "I might just leave it blank."

Let's look at the contrast. Trump ridiculed Ted Cruz's wife on twitter and publicly accused Ted's Father of being part of the JFK assassination conspiracy.

Yet, in the General, Ted Cruz was out campaigning for that fucking asshole. Do you know why? Because Cruz knows what a binary choice is.

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 11:29 AM

32. Time for a new face

The party feels leaderless and will continue to appear so the longer people hang on to Hillary and/or Bernie. We have a chance to win a lot of seats by being anti-Trump, but in the end, someone needs to be there to articulate and upbeat, appealing and coherent Democratic message.

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Response to HopeAgain (Reply #32)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 11:35 AM

35. My political loyalty is to my party over any individual candidate

 

I know Hilary is in the past, but that doesn't mean we can't learn a lesson from this defeat.

I will support a candidate 3 years from now in the primary. I have never and will never speak ill of the Democratic Primary candidates who oppose my preferred candidate, because I may have to support him or her in the General, if my candidate loses.

That's how a political party works.

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Response to HopeAgain (Reply #32)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 01:42 PM

45. I agree

AND NO JOE BIDEN EITHER

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 12:10 PM

38. Read this...Brazile is full of crap!

Brazile’s allegation is over a Joint Fundraising Agreement that Clinton signed with the DNC in August 2015, and JFAs are standard operating procedure for presidential candidates – Trump signed one with the RNC, and Bernie Sanders did, too, in November 2015.
What Brazile contends, however, is that the Clinton campaign made personnel and spending demands with its agreement.
Now all presidential nominees take over the party as soon as they become the presumptive nominee – Trump and Clinton did it in 2016, Mitt Romney did it in 2012, Barack Obama in 2008.
But Brazile says that the Clinton takeover of the DNC came too soon. In fact, Clinton campaign sources tell NBC News that they didn’t control the DNC until June (after the primary season had ended), but they did use money from the JFA to build out general-election infrastructure and pay DNC/state party bills before then.

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Response to videohead5 (Reply #38)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 12:22 PM

40. Should any campaign --ever-- have control over the DNC?

Regardless of timing...

The DNC has to be a completely level playing field, free of influence.

It's critical ALL see this as we focus on winning the war against the orange fascist and his minions in 2018!

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 12:20 PM

39. KnR

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 01:45 PM

46. As a rabid Hillary supporter, I say...pretty please...go away. This is divisive.

If Bernie had won the nomination, I would have gladly voted for him, as his win would have reflected the will of the primary voters.

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Response to Tarc (Reply #46)

Mon Nov 6, 2017, 05:09 PM

77. Thank you.

 

Your attitude represents hope for the future.

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 01:52 PM

48. No, hes not a registered Democrat, but he has fundraised for and supported Democrats for many years.

 

He has never had a Democratic opponent in his Senate races. Bernie Sanders is the country's most popular Senator. His involvement in the Party (whether he has a D next to his name or not) can only benefit it. The Democratic Party's popularity is at an almost all time low.

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 02:00 PM

51. At the same time, as you say all this, you have to remember that the fastest growing political

affiliation is "Independent" and it's people leaving both the Democratic and Republican parties. I suggest we embrace Indies because disregarding them is political suicide.

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 02:08 PM

53. This retired union rep feels exactly the same way as louis c.

He was much more eloquent than I could have been.

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 02:11 PM

54. Amen. Any true democrat who has been loyal

 

to the party their whole career would beat him in the primaries on that virtue alone. We will not be imposed on or held hostage. The voters decide.

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 02:20 PM

57. Tribalism for the win!

 

Just what we need in American politics, more clannish tribalism

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #57)

Mon Nov 6, 2017, 06:19 PM

84. And lonerism is a recipe for chaos and failure.





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Response to louis c (Original post)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 02:23 PM

58. Speaking about workers and unions, and as a retired union representative

and 43 year union member in 2 unions, what did Barack Obama accomplish for workers? Did he ever show the slightest interest in strengthening the right to organize? Yes, he talked about lacing up the walking boots and walking that picket line in Wisconsin, but no one saw him on that line. Card check recognition was never mentioned, and I do not remember him ever mentioning unions in any speeches.

Workers won their greatest victories in the 1930s, and after that it has been loss after loss as the laws have been weakened in favor of businesses and the rich.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #58)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 03:10 PM

66. Labor Board appointments who sided with unions

 

Supreme Court appointments that voted against right to work laws.

Sent Perez to settle IBEW contract dispute with Verizon. I know the negotiators during that dispute and they said they could not have "won" that dispute without Perez's assistance.

As an organizer, the rules became much more union friendly under Obama.

Most of the anti-union laws are coming from individual states. Whenever the Republicans gain all three braches in a state government (i.e Gov, Senate, House) it becomes a right to work state. At the Fed. level, just having that veto in the White House prevents RTW from being a National Law.

Unfortunately, brother, too many of our own rank and file vote against their own best interests. Too many "Reagan Democrats" wore hard hats.

Look at the voting demographics for Trump. Too often our own rank and file cut their own throats.

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Response to louis c (Reply #66)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 06:48 PM

70. Our rank and file certainly do cut their own throats.

I know many teachers who dropped the union and continued to vote for Scott Walker after he decimated WEAC. I can’t tell you how many times I heard that Act 10 wouldn’t really affect them. Some of these same people expected union protection when they ran into problems on the job, and were angry that the union didn’t support them for free.

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 02:27 PM

59. So agree with you fellow Union Person.

 

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 02:29 PM

60. K&R

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 02:43 PM

62. Kicking!

 

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 02:49 PM

63. K&R, perfectly written, and I agree totally.

I'm not allowing this crap to distract me - we have a very important election in Virginia Tuesday.

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 03:53 PM

67. Nobody gives two shits about this

That is all

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #67)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 07:53 PM

73. 73 Recs. First in Trending today and 3 stars on Greatest Page. Somebody cares.

 

That is all.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #67)

Mon Nov 6, 2017, 06:17 PM

83. Actually it appears that many do.

So infuriating, isn't it? Awww.

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 05:45 PM

68. As of today 11/03/2017, I have resigned my life time membership to the Democratic Party!

 

I have officially changed my Florida voter registration to unaffiliated, I submitted my resignation to the DNC, and I denounce the dirty money hungry grubbing insider methodology employed by the DNC against Mr. Bernie Sanders. FYI I was supportive of the democratic party by maintaining unity and voting for Mrs. Hillary Clinton and twice for Mr. Obama. I will not contribute any of my hard earned money to the DNC or candidate. DROP DEAD SORRY DNC BASTARDS AND FILTHY REPUBLICANS FOR THE POS IN THE WHITE HOUSE!

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Response to TarponSnook (Reply #68)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 07:51 PM

72. Maybe we can beat Trump next election with the Green Party

 

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Response to louis c (Reply #72)

Mon Nov 6, 2017, 06:25 PM

85. Maybe we can beat Trump next election with the Green Party.

Is that Green Party Jill Stein with putin?

**Clutches Pearls**



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Response to louis c (Original post)

Fri Nov 3, 2017, 06:53 PM

71. *GIGANTIC* r#73 &k!!!!!

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Sat Nov 4, 2017, 08:18 AM

74. Well said.

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Response to Pacifist Patriot (Reply #74)

Mon Nov 6, 2017, 04:39 PM

75. thanks

 

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Mon Nov 6, 2017, 05:06 PM

76. It doesn't matter whether Bernie is a Democrat or not.

 

The larger question was never about Bernie as a person vs. Hillary as a person.

It's about the way this party is run and the question of how it should be run.

The idea of how this party should be run that was associated with(but did not originate with)Bernie's campaign is that the party should be run from below, should be the fighting voice of those kept from power, for the non-rich and the historically oppressed against the rich and the historically privileged.

The idea of how this party should be run that was kept in place in the primaries, which was associated with Hillary's campaign but, again, was not originate by it, was that it was silly to actually let the grassroots run the party, that instead it needed to be run with an understanding that a small, self-designated group of "professionals" within the party were the natural leaders and the natural arbiters of what is and what is not within the range of the possible.

Those who backed Bernie who were and are "indepedents" are people whose natural place would have been within this party had not this party, starting in the late Eighties, started blaming progressives for ALL its problems and decided that the key to victory lay in putting progressives(and I'm including POC and working-class people of all races in that category, along with activists for peace and against corporate greed)in their place or driving the out into the cold, while welcoming in a lot of millionaires and billionaires in their place.

Bernie shouldn't run again...but as a party, we need to recognize that the economic ideas of his campaign(ideas no other Dem candidate was remotely close to) must be part of where we go, and that the energy and commitment of the his supporters is also a necessary component of a Democratic comeback. To make the connections that are needed with the Sanders movement, we need to accept that the Sanders campaign was legitimate and that the ideas that campaign was based on were valid and remain popular, and that his supporters should be made welcome as a group into this party if they wish to be a part of it.

While I understand your wish to defend the legitimacy of Hillary's nomination(the vast majority of people who worked for Bernie DID accept it and did campaign for her in the fall) it serves no good purpose for anyone to be starting threads that even go close to arguing that he should never have been permitted in those primaries and that we should go forward as if that campaign never happened.

Let's just all stipulate this:

1)Hillary was nominated and would have won the nomination under any scenario;
2)Bernie's primary campaign had a right to happen, and essentially HAD to happen;
3)We need the ideas and people from both campaigns, as well as as many new progressive ideas and new people as possible, if we are to win.

OK?

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Mon Nov 6, 2017, 05:09 PM

78. That's all well and good, but Democratic Party needs to be for more than Democrats...


...if we want to win.

There are too many independents who lean Democratic but not always.

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Mon Nov 6, 2017, 05:22 PM

79. BOOOOMMMM!!!!! Great post. Dead on. nt

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Mon Nov 6, 2017, 06:09 PM

82. K&R...


And

ONLY AND FOREVER!

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Response to louis c (Original post)

Mon Nov 6, 2017, 09:39 PM

87. K&R - Thanks, Louis. n/t


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