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[Chasstev365]

This message was self-deleted by its author (Chasstev365) on Wed Nov 8, 2017, 01:04 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[malaise]

1. It will be a win n/t

[Chasstev365]

4. Oh, God I hope so!

[sunonmars]

2. Why should it be an easy win, nothing is an easy win. Especially not in Va.

[Chasstev365]

7. With the abomination of the Trump administration, it should be an easy win if people bother to vote!

[Honeycombe8]

42. I think he means a CLEAR win. And it should be. nt

[Initech]

71. Two words: Greg Gianforte

This guy fucking committed blatant 1st degree assault - and still won! I'm convinced at this point the GOP could run Ted Bundy and Charles Manson in some areas and they'd win! Which is why we really need to GOTV!

[Matthew28]

3. These elections tonight

are the real test on the strength of Trumps base. If we lose bad tonight I wouldn't feel too good going into 2018 sadly.

[emulatorloo]

9. Yeah. never underestimate the power of telling white people they are victims

Definitely worked for Trump

[LenaBaby61]

79. If we lose bad tonight I wouldn't feel too good going into 2018 sadly.

Even if Dems take Virginia, I'm STILL not feeling too good about 2018 or 2020.

Gerrymandering, voter-purging, voter-crosschecking and the ruskies STILL interfering. And yet, LITTLE to NOTHING that I can see is being done about it. Also, that ruling from the Supreme Court about gerrymandering in Wisconsin will set the tone for 2018 and 2020. IF the Supreme Court rules in favor of thuglicans and gerrymandering can remain and continue disenfranchising Dems in Wisconsin, then it's "Katy, bar the door!" all across this country for Dems.

[marylandblue]

5. We need to have a better message either way

My first thought when you asked about staying the course, was "what course are we on now?" I don't know the answer to that.

[Chasstev365]

10. A cautious, defensive position because the Dems are afraid of being Democrats!

[marylandblue]

13. I've thought we've been too cautious for years

Too much caution accounts for Bernie's success. He was downright imprudent, even, horrors, rash!

[OilemFirchen]

59. His success?

Last I checked, he lost. Pretty decisively.

"Caution" (and reasoned discourse, sane policy and true progressivism) led to a Clinton electoral victory.

[marylandblue]

67. Did better than expected with a far left message

There is some demand for that sort of thing. And before people jump on me, I supported Clinton.

[Ken Burch]

68. 43% for a candidate who had no national presence six months earlier is a success.

Changing the discussion is a success.

Getting a lot of your campaign's ideas into the platform is a success.

Being nominated isn't the only measure of "success".

Bernie shouldn't run again, but what harm is done by admitting that the ideas his campaign was about have support and resonance and that they should be part of our future?

Why not be the party of "FOR....." rather than just the party of "Stop....!" and "Against"?

[OilemFirchen]

70. "Being nominated isn't the only measure of 'success'. "

In the context of this discussion, it is.

Did he have some successes? Yes. Did he succeed? No.

Why not be the party of "FOR....." rather than just the party of "Stop....!" and "Against"?

I do believe that you have your candidates, and possibly parties, confused. Pretty sure that Sanders' overarching message was "Stop", and that the Republicans' was "Against". It wasn't that long ago. I may not remember much, but I remember that much.

[emulatorloo]

83. i am not so sure the discussion was changed as radically as some seem to believe.

Democrats have long argued for

- leveling the playing field
- campaign finance reform and ending Citizens United
- strong public education
- universal healthcare
- strong regulation of the financial sector
- no wars of choice
- good jobs
- retraining and education for people in moribund industries
- strengthening the safety net

As you may recall the first several debates were a lot of Bernie saying 'I agree with Senator Clinton" and HRC saying "I agree with Senator Sanders". There was never a vast chasm between their policy positions

Bernie caucuses with Dems for a reason, he agrees with Dems on policy goals.

[NurseJackie]

43. Good grief.

[sheshe2]

66. "what course are we on now?"

This one.

2016 Democratic Party Platform

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/papers_pdf/117717.pdf

[emulatorloo]

6. We haven't lost Virginia

[bearsfootball516]

8. I think theyll win

But if they don’t, I think it’s a sign that we need to shift left. Northam ran a fairly left/moderate campaign, and never really attached Gillespie to Trump. Although I think Northam wins, I do this he could have been more aggressive and doing so may have widened his lead.

[Fresh_Start]

11. if the democrats lose Virginia tonight...the purity democrats will be partially to blame

unfortunately purity democrats only think their own purity view is valid...
and they accept no blame for their role in dividing the party

Any fault always belongs to someone else.
Its a point of view they share with Trump and GOP.

[RKP5637]

22. Agree!!! n/t

[Wwcd]

33. + 1000

This reminds me of the way religions claim to be closer to god than the others.

[Crunchy Frog]

38. I'm pretty sure that both sides in the debates I've been seeing on DU

would fit that definition of "purity Democrats"

[Fresh_Start]

48. I don't think all sides are 'purity' seekers

however I agree that being unable to see others points of views seem to be sorely lacking across the board.

We are in a tough environment due to trumpism's appeal to groups whose main issue with democrats and democracy is that all people are created equal and deserve the same rights and privileges.

Democrats have always had a difficult time compromising to move the ball forward. And we're paying in spades for that.

[leftofcool]

55. Yea, Democracy for America told them not to vote for Northam

[Progressive dog]

78. I agree with you,

purity democrats are good at assigning blame and like most of the GOP are more interested in revenge than in progress.

[OldManTarHeel]

12. C'Mon Folks . . Have Some Faith

The Commonwealth voted in favor of Clinton . . nothing that Trump has done since inauguration should sway this great state in the GOP's favor.

Remember also, that NoVA vote tallies come in late, but, we are strong and mighty, and btw, the younger folks in this area hate Trump.

We're not losing Virginia . . !

[still_one]

14. No, itwill mean exactly what happened in 2016 that the country is full with f racist bigots who want

honor their racist confederate general statues

Gee I guess when Russ Feingold and every Democrat who ran for Senate in those critical swing states lost, that progressive message didn’t resonate

[Hoyt]

15. If we lose tonight, it means white wingers are more behind Trump, and those like him, than we

ever imagined. A change in message may be in order, but white wing voters aren't interested in hearing it.

[VermontKevin]

17. This.

[RKP5637]

23. Sadly, this is quite true!!! n/t

[Blue_Tires]

16. Can we at least wait for the votes to get counted before having this conversation??

[TexasTowelie]

20. +1

[FSogol]

45. Seriously, WTF?

[MontanaMama]

18. I'd really like to see Dems

better articulate what we're FOR not just that we're not DT. It isn't enough to say we don't support the Dotard's policies. Hope it is a win tonight! Fingers crossed people!!

[L. Coyote]

19. Why wait for the result when you can bash the Dems now? Seriously?

If we lose this one, it is as rigged as the last one.

[Wwcd]

36. "Applause"

Post winner

[vdogg]

21. I've lived in Virginia for 20 years, our elections are always close.

Don't freak out when the initial returns come in with Gillespie ahead, this always happens until Northern Virginia comes in.

[FSogol]

47. True. n/t

[frazzled]

24. I don't even know what you're talking about

except "cautious."

What course--specifically--are you suggesting be taken?

(All I can see is that if the Republican wins, then we should do what they did to win: incautiously promote anti-Muslim, racist, homophobic postures and tell them they're all going to be rich like that hero Donald Trump. Oh, and lie a lot. I don't want to do that.)

And this "better message" thing is getting real tired. Either state your preferred message or stop posting that we need a "better message."

[emulatorloo]

58. There's a thread about what the "better message" should be. It's basically the message w had

in 2016, 2012, 2008, etc. strong safety net, good jobs, retraining programs for people in dying industries, good education, leveling the playing field, et cetera.

Allegedly the Dems only idea is "We are not Trump," they might have heard that on rightwing radio?

[frazzled]

65. What you list is exactly the message of the 2016 Democratic convention.

Better idea than getting a new message might be to ask people to listen to the existing one.

[emulatorloo]

76. Indeed

And actually start helping Dems get that message out there

[ileus]

25. We'll never lose Virginia....again.

much less tonight...

[DFW]

26. And if we DON'T lose Virginia tonight....

Do we get relief from posts like these?

спокойно, там, спокойно

[samnsara]

27. if we lose its cuz the Repugs are cheating again...

[SoCalMusicLover]

31. And The Dems Are Letting Them Get Away With It

Funny how Democrats just give up and concede, while repubs would be screaming bloody murder if something seemed amiss.

It appears highly likely that the Democrat will win, so if that doesn't happen, it's probably due to cheating.

[NCTraveler]

28. I take it you will say stay the course if we win tonight.

Just joking. I see you hedges against that option already.

[Squinch]

29. If we lose Virginia tonight, to me it will be a clear sign that Democrats need to stop

trashing Democrats.

[Chasstev365]

32. Yes, because we can NEVER be critical of the party!

Give me a break!

If poll after poll shows people agree with Democrats on the issues, why don't we sweep these elections? Can't we be critical to be better in the future?

[Squinch]

35. You seem to be angered by the suggestion we should stop trashing Democrats.

There are many like you here. That's probably a big part of the problem.

[Chasstev365]

40. No; you personally trash all of my post. Don't think I haven't noticed

I asked a fair question that you seem threatened by.

[Squinch]

46. Well, I haven't noticed, so it hasn't been personal. Perhaps I simply disagree with you often.

Certainly I'm not threatened, but I'm not going to fight with you.

[sheshe2]

62. This is our Democratic Platform.

Please explain what you need for a better future that is not explained here. TIA.

This is a message that resonates with me and all the Democrats I know. What's it missing for you to get on board?"

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/papers_pdf/117717.pdf

[NurseJackie]

82. Thank you!

[NurseJackie]

34. Bingo! I'm sick of the smears and lies and denigrating of Democrats and the Democratic Party.

29. If we lose Virginia tonight, to me it will be a clear sign that Democrats need to stop
trashing Democrats.

Not just Democrats. But Democrats and our allies. (I'll just leave it at that.)

[Squinch]

37. I've had multiple conversations here in the past couple of days with Democrats who insist

that it is impossible to discuss political issues without trashing Democrats. It's really shocking.

[leftofcool]

56. Looks like trashing Democrats is the new norm.

[Squinch]

61. It costs us dearly. Imagine if we presented a united front and if all of our pundits, when asked

about the disarray in the party responded, "Where are you getting this garbage? We're as strong and united as we could be, and we are fully in agreement about what needs to be done to defeat Republicans."

If something like the Brazile nonsense came up and was brought up in the news and ALL OF US responded, "So what? It's ridiculous to be talking about that when Republicans are dismantling the country and inciting wars, wrecking our education system and lining the pockets of billionaires with money stolen from people who make less than 50k a year."

If we had that kind of message discipline, like the Republicans have message discipline, no one would beat us.

[beachbum bob]

30. its an easy win if democrats vote, as long as they sit, GOP wins

nothing to do with stay the course but just plain uncaring voters who rather complain than vote...

[StevieM]

39. So if we lose the lesson is that in the future we should only run candidates who support

single payer health care? Because with that as part of their platform they are much more likely to win?

Right now the poll numbers don't indicate the public supports it. Maybe that will change in the future. But for now it doesn't make sense for candidates in some districts or states to support it. And it certainly doesn't seem reasonable to suggest that Democratic candidates can't win without this position, even if Northam doesn't win tonight.

[Chasstev365]

41. When did I ever say anything about Single Payer?

[StevieM]

50. It just seems like lately Democrats who don't support single payer health care are automatically

labeled as "not a progressive."

You're right, you didn't say anything about single payer. I should have recognized that in my post and made my point more clearly.

[bullimiami]

44. I dont want to stay the course regardless

Turn left.

[Honeycombe8]

49. No matter what happens, I still think there needs to be a clearer message.

There this "better deal" thing. But what is the message exactly? It's not clear. "We're not Republicans...and Trump is terrible" isn't enough.

Maybe something along the lines of...protecting the middle class, protecting Social Security and Medicare, growing the economy so that all benefit, increasing jobs. Things like that. All that is true, BTW.

[brush]

51. Why not wait and see before sentencing, please?

[SandyZ]

52. I want the suppression explored and prosecuted.

[Chasstev365]

53. Amen: Totally with you on that!

[.99center]

63. The media is exploring how our primary works

As the GOP leads a coordinated suppression effort to prevent Americans from voting.

[uponit7771]

75. +1

[LexVegas]

54. Hopin' huh? nt

[Zen Democrat]

57. Win or lose, I'm against any staying of the course. The course is jacked up!

[Persondem]

60. It's one state in an off year. It's not a time for broad sweeping judgements about anything ...

... involving the direction of the party on the national level.

[FSogol]

64. Rooting for Northam to lose so you can advocate blowing everything up?

Sorry, but you're going to be massively disappointed. The Democrats are pulling this one out.

[Chasstev365]

69. I am NOT rooting for him to lose!

I am being critical becuase I want Democrats to do better!

If Northam wins, I will be thrilled!

[vdogg]

72. I think we've got this.

Gillespie is ahead, but he is not pulling the numbers he needs from the deep red areas to overcome the Urban Crescent. This probably won't be all that close. Once Nova, HR, and Richmond come in Northam will start pulling away.

[MFM008]

73. Because maggot is so

Much better.

[LuvLoogie]

74. Yes I think we should remain Democrats.

Tired of all this chicken shit.

[NastyRiffraff]

77. If we WIN VA tonight, will you stop whining about the Democratic Party?

Well?

[NurseJackie]

81. I sincerely doubt it.

[bettyellen]

80. I'd like to force DNC "untity comission" to support Dems in all important races. How about you?