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louis c

(8,652 posts)
Sat Nov 11, 2017, 07:38 PM Nov 2017

Are the Democrats Better Off if Roy Moore Wins or Loses

I'm a pragmatist. so I want a win to reduce the Senate to a 51 to 49 caucus split. I think that an Alabama win, under any circumstances, increases the Democratic momentum going into election season, 2018.

On the other hand, a political argument can be made that Roy Moore becomes such a negative distraction to the GOP and creates another issue, in and of itself, that it can't help but juice up the Democratic base in every 2018 election. Moore can become an issue everywhere in this country.

Now, please don't get me wrong. I know the morality of what Roy Moore did makes the case that it's better if our guy, Doug Jones wins. But, the alternative is not a political disaster, by any means. Remember, the Republican establishment didn't want Moore in the Senate in the first place because of his outlandish positions and actions, even before his pedophilia scandal. Can you imagine they're panic now? Even they know his vote is not worth the trouble it brings.

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Are the Democrats Better Off if Roy Moore Wins or Loses (Original Post) louis c Nov 2017 OP
6 Of One...1/2 Dozen Of The Other Me. Nov 2017 #1
No one will remember this story this time next year. So I don't understand why you would SweetieD Nov 2017 #2
If Moore wins, he will be a Senator the whole year louis c Nov 2017 #8
Its better if he loses, no question bearsfootball516 Nov 2017 #3
humanity is better off if Pedo Roy loses 0rganism Nov 2017 #4
+1000 mercuryblues Nov 2017 #21
As I said in another thread, Moore winning would throw the GOP into chaos. Ligyron Nov 2017 #5
Moore can't do anything to the party which 45 hasn't already done. He needs to lose. Period. LonePirate Nov 2017 #6
That reminds me of Susan Sarandan's suggestion RandySF Nov 2017 #7
One Senator has a lot less impact than a President louis c Nov 2017 #9
THere's no substitute for winning. RandySF Nov 2017 #12
I'm all for winning louis c Nov 2017 #13
Pedophiles are not winners. Blue Owl Nov 2017 #10
If he loses to Jones, then for two years at least we have a Senate seat that was as unlikely karynnj Nov 2017 #11
the question is how expedient are one's moral's values. for what gain are they expendable nt msongs Nov 2017 #14
Don't know about Democrats as a whole ClarendonDem Nov 2017 #15
I honestly don't understand how you make a case for Moore winning. Blue_true Nov 2017 #16
I don't vote in Alabama louis c Nov 2017 #19
One Senate seat in the hand Bradshaw3 Nov 2017 #17
Well, exactly. LisaL Nov 2017 #18
Wow, did you read the post? louis c Nov 2017 #20

SweetieD

(1,660 posts)
2. No one will remember this story this time next year. So I don't understand why you would
Sat Nov 11, 2017, 07:40 PM
Nov 2017

think this would impact 2018 in anyway.

It is obviously better for a Democrat to win this seat.

 

louis c

(8,652 posts)
8. If Moore wins, he will be a Senator the whole year
Sat Nov 11, 2017, 07:54 PM
Nov 2017

do you think, for a moment, he won't do or say something stupid in that time?

And every time Roy Moore says something stupid, this issue will reappear.

bearsfootball516

(6,384 posts)
3. Its better if he loses, no question
Sat Nov 11, 2017, 07:41 PM
Nov 2017

There would be no bigger momentum heading into 2018 than taking a senate seat in ALABAMA.

0rganism

(24,229 posts)
4. humanity is better off if Pedo Roy loses
Sat Nov 11, 2017, 07:44 PM
Nov 2017

if/when he wins, it represents one more step towards normalizing all kinds of criminal activity, including sexual abuse and child molestation, by Republicans in particular and powerful men in general.

political arguments can gtfo, this is basic human decency at stake now. granted, the market value for basic human decency has taken quite a tumble over the last year, but some of us still hold it dear.

Ligyron

(7,768 posts)
5. As I said in another thread, Moore winning would throw the GOP into chaos.
Sat Nov 11, 2017, 07:45 PM
Nov 2017

I think that would be a net positive for the reasons you mentioned, but most disagreed.

Of course, we would really prefer the Democratic candidate to win and that could happen

LonePirate

(13,654 posts)
6. Moore can't do anything to the party which 45 hasn't already done. He needs to lose. Period.
Sat Nov 11, 2017, 07:50 PM
Nov 2017

If he loses, it's easier for us to regain the Senate in 2018.

 

louis c

(8,652 posts)
13. I'm all for winning
Sat Nov 11, 2017, 08:14 PM
Nov 2017

but this is still an uphill climb and no Massachusetts Liberal is going to change the mind of an Alabama voter.

What can we do with this election if Moore wins? There is a silver lining. After all, Alabama is just one state.

karynnj

(59,625 posts)
11. If he loses to Jones, then for two years at least we have a Senate seat that was as unlikely
Sat Nov 11, 2017, 08:03 PM
Nov 2017

to belong to us as Scott Brown getting the MA seat was for them.

If he votes with the Democrats - and they have done a good job sticking together - then it would mean that instead of needing 3 Republicans we need two. That is a major difference - especially because it is possible that we will continue to have Collins on healthcare. The Republican control of the Senate is pretty weak and if they were down to 51, it is weaker. They talk and act as if they have the supermajority Obama had - if only for 4 months.

I would suspect that the outrage factor on Ray Moore, unless he would show interest in a young girl now, will fade. He could continue as Alabama's Senator for years.

 

ClarendonDem

(720 posts)
15. Don't know about Democrats as a whole
Sat Nov 11, 2017, 08:34 PM
Nov 2017

But Alabama and America are certainly better off if Moore loses. He's worse than Trump.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
16. I honestly don't understand how you make a case for Moore winning.
Sat Nov 11, 2017, 08:43 PM
Nov 2017

If Moore wins that adds to the moral bankruptcy that is creeping through society. He must lose and lose decisively.

 

louis c

(8,652 posts)
19. I don't vote in Alabama
Sat Nov 11, 2017, 10:23 PM
Nov 2017

That is a very, very, very Conservative, Republican, Red state.

They dig in. The voters are among the least educated in the country and the most right wing. Confederate flags everywhere. The Klan is not a bad word there. It would be no surprise to me if Moore wins. I'd rather he lose. I want the Dems to have that seat.

But we must prepare for the possible eventuality of Roy Moore in the US Senate and make the most of all his negatives, if it happens.

Bradshaw3

(7,688 posts)
17. One Senate seat in the hand
Sat Nov 11, 2017, 08:49 PM
Nov 2017

is worth more than what impact Moore may have on the 2018 election. You take control of the Senate any way you can get it and as narrow a chance as the Dems have in 2018, one seat could be the difference. You have control of judicial nominees, chairmanships, investigations, etc. Not even a close call, apart from the morality of thinking a Moore win would be good. As another poster said, this smacks of Sarandon logic.

LisaL

(45,747 posts)
18. Well, exactly.
Sat Nov 11, 2017, 08:56 PM
Nov 2017

I don't understand how is that even a question. I am guessing OP doesn't believe a democrat can win in Alabama and is devising some way that losing would be better than winning.

 

louis c

(8,652 posts)
20. Wow, did you read the post?
Sat Nov 11, 2017, 10:24 PM
Nov 2017

I said, in the first line, that I'd rather a win than a loss. But, "an argument can be made" that a loss still has some advantage to it, as Roy Moore will say and do things that will weaken the Republicans in other areas, by forcing vulnerable, sitting Republican Senators and Challengers in reasonable states (Arizona, Nevada, Missouri, etc.) to defend indefensible statements from a sitting Senator in their own party. He can be used against them.

I hope you get my point.

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