I believe Roy Moore's victims, but what frustrates me is why didn't they come forward during runoff

[still_one]

election, or did they, but the media didn't pursue it?

[BannonsLiver]

1. ...

[lapfog_1]

2. The national catharsis

on sexual harassment had not yet happened.

[Kaleva]

3. WP tracked down the first 4

[hlthe2b]

4. The first four did not come forward at all. WaPo contacted them following a lead

[still_one]

6. I wish it would have happened earlier. That Moore was even a candidate is a disgrace

[Roland99]

35. Exactly. People need to read the WaPo article! Explains it.

Someone heard talk/rumor and started digging. Eventually interviewed 30 people and convinced the victims to go on the record

[NCTraveler]

5. If I'm correct.

The Washington Posts investigative journalist team is what got the ball rolling here. Some had come out to friends and family over the years but it was their willingness to talk to the WaPo that set the timing in this instance.

[Sugarcoated]

7. I'd like to know if any of them tried to come out

when he was on his way to becoming a judge.

[still_one]

8. I suspect back then it would have been extremely difficult, and they would not be believed.

I have friends who were tormented in extremely harsh ways, NOT in a sexual way, by members of the Catholic school they went to, and when they told their parents, the parents would not believe their kids at the time.

[Kaleva]

9. I didn't ever tell my parents about the times I was whacked pretty hard by a teacher,

or had my head slammed against my desk or was lifted off my seat by my hair 'cause I'd get it worse at home for causing trouble at school.

[still_one]

12. Yes, sadly I hear you

[MyOwnPeace]

30. OMG!

That is terrible!

I HATE to hear reports like that - this is NOT what we should expect from people given oversight of our children. We need to be confident in the desired environment for our children, be it daycare, schools, or public youth facilities.

[Kaleva]

32. That was pretty much the norm when I was young

Kids could smoke on the school bus as long as the bus driver was smoking. You could bring guns to school during bird and deer season. Teachers were very physical when it came down to punishment.

[MyOwnPeace]

34. Interesting!

Where in the US was that?
I spent 35 years in schools in Pennsylvania and saw the decrease of "physical punishment" over that time.
I had paddled on a few occasions in my first few years - I grew to realize that I was doing what I had grown up with - realized that it was NOT the best way - and resolved to support the rights of kids regarding all types of "discipline" and behavior towards children.
Also, the "smoking" thing has taken major turns through time. I'm truly amazed that it has done that - didn't think I'd see it in my own lifetime.

[Sugarcoated]

10. True

but I hope reporters are digging into it, it would put another RW talking point to rest.

[Mariana]

48. Lots of people don't believe them now.

Especially Christian voters in Alabama, apparently.

[procon]

11. As a survivor, I can only speak for my own experience.

I hope to address your frustration, but every girl and woman deals with being sexually assaulted differently, so please don't judge our methods of coping with such a life shattering ordeal.

For me, the undeserved guilt and shame was overwhelming, I was terrified someone would find out and I would be branded and outcast forever; a fate worse than death for any teen. I couldn't cope with the self loathing stigma that I created in my own mind, so I walled the whole episode off. I did my best to ignore what had happened to me and to some extent that worked. I stopped thinking about it and my pain and anguish disappeared. Looking back now, it was almost like a self induced amnesia.

Then one day, 30+ some years later, I was diving home from work and listening to an oldies radio station when I heard a song that was popular at the time I was assaulted. All of a sudden the floodgates opened and everything that happened to me broke open as fresh and ugly as the day it happened. That's when I finally looked at the incident from an adult's perspective, and not that of a scared 17 yo girl, and I knew I was not at fault. Once the guilt was gone, I was able to talk about what happened.

[RussBLib]

15. about 16% of females have been sexually assaulted by age 18

according to a relatively recent study noted here.

And just over 1% of all subjects were the victims of incest by their fathers.

That's a lot of damaged women.

Damn, men can be such bastards sometimes.

I'm sorry that happened to you but it sounds like you have overcome it. Congratulations.

[Ms. Toad]

24. Thank you. #MeToo - albeit the circumstances are diffferent.

One day - in response to an impending prison visit & crude joke by a law school professor, 2 decades after I was raped as a teen, I was finally free.

In my case, I had been very vocal about the rape immediately after - and worked for more than a decade as a rape crisis center advocate.

But there was still a knot held tight around so strongly needing to appear unattractive/non-sexual to potential rapists that I - completely unconsciously - developed eating habits that kept me 50+ lbs above my ideal weight for most of my adult life.

That doesn't mean I'm now easily able to control my eating habits - they are called habits for a reason. But it does mean that what I eat is my choice - rather than a product of an unconscious desire to be perceived as non-sexual.

Whatever the trigger, however long after the fact, our minds and bodies protect us from what we are not yet ready to know. And then, when we're ready, something breaks and it all comes flooding back - and it's ok.

[justiceischeap]

13. Its simple...NO ONE ASKED THEM BEFORE NOW.

It takes real courage to come forward about sexual assault, especially if it happens as a youngster by an adult.

For example, it took me 9-10 years to tell my parents about what happened to me as a kid at the hands of a relative. They didn’t believe me when I did until that relative was arrested years later for the same thing.

I was younger than the 14 yr old (and mine was over several years). I didn’t know how to deal with it at that age. Was it my fault? Did I ask for it? Did I do something that encouraged him? The tools to deal with this are missing at that age. Even grown women that are raped/assaulted have a hard time dealing with it.

So, don’t ask—EVER—why it takes a victim so long to come forward, especially if it’s for political expediency.

[Ms. Toad]

23. Thread winner.

So, don’t ask—EVER—why it takes a victim so long to come forward, especially if it’s for political expediency.

My first reaction on reading the OP subject line was anger/how dare you. I wasn't sure I wanted to even look through the thread.

Thank you for making it worthwhile.

[justiceischeap]

41. Youre welcome!

One of the thing’s that really bothers me about this situation is the further victimization of these women. We’re seeing it already for the sake of politics.

[pnwmom]

28. Yes. No one is required to report their victimization to suit the needs of other people. n/t

[Laffy Kat]

14. I don't think they "timed" it.

It happened rather organically didn't it?

[tanyev]

16. Maybe they were hoping Strange would win the runoff and they wouldn't have to come forward.

As it became more and more apparent that Moore was going to win the general, they realized they had to try.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

17. They aren't exactly "coming forward" now. WaPo is tracking them down.

Once contacted, some are apparently willing to talk about it.

It seems like good reporting work.

If Moore had just stayed in Alabama politics, this might have never been a story. But he walked onto the national stage ...

[Voltaire2]

18. why exactly does this frustrate you?

[jalan48]

19. Better they didn't. We'd have right wing Luther Strange getting elected.

This way there is a chance we get a Democrat.

[pnwmom]

26. +1 nt

[secondwind]

20. Women are almost always too embarrassed to come forward.

There are more women raped in this country than the statistics show.

[SoCalDem]

21. because they thought no one would believe them...and

they have lives of their own that they did not want trashed..

[Mariana]

49. And it turns out, they were right.

Many people don't believe them. Even worse, some believe them but are twisting themselves in knots excusing Moore.

[gollygee]

22. Women are generally not believed

What we're seeing here is some women being believed, and so other women finally feel like they might be as well and are starting to talk.

[pnwmom]

25. None of the first four CAME FORWARD even now. They were approached

by the reporters who already knew about them -- rumors had been passing in the town over decades. And over the course of several interviews, they grew comfortable enough with the reporters and how their stories would be reported to allow their names to be published.

Beverly Young Nelson, who did come forward today, said she only became brave enough because of the courage of the first four women. She said that after Moore attacked her he told her not to tell anyone because no one would take her word over his.

[still_one]

38. Appreciate the background information which I wasn't aware

[FarPoint]

27. Because the GOP as another plan/ scheme....

I just don't know what their end game is at the moment....

[benld74]

29. Come forward earlier?!

Perhaps they tried
Perhaps nobody heard them

A lot of us sometimes wished we would have done something differently
Some have, some have not

These did
No matter the time

[blueinredohio]

31. I don't know if I believe these stories, it all sounds fishy. I don't trust any republican.

[pnwmom]

40. The WA Post got wind of rumors that have been common knowledge in the town of Gadsden

for decades.

They talked to 30 people who knew about Roy and the rumors, including the 4 women in the first story -- who after several interviews finally agreed to be publicly named. Imagine the courage it took for these women to do so.

The 14 year old in the WA Post report had shared her story with 2 friends shortly after it happened, and one of these women consented to being named publicly. The 14 yr. old told her mother ten years later. The mother told a good friend of her own -- and that woman, Mary Jo West, came forward today to say she remembers the mother telling her about the assault years ago, and how bad the mother felt that she'd let it happen.

Then today, yet another woman, Beverly Young Nelson, told of Roy's assault on her after he offered to give her a ride home from her after school job at a restaurant. She showed her high school yearbook from when she was 16 -- with his signature and a comment on her beauty and the name of the restaurant.

For cases that were this long ago, there is a LOT of evidence.

And here is a new story from today:

This past weekend, I spoke or messaged with more than a dozen people—including a major political figure in the state—who told me that they had heard, over the years, that Moore had been banned from the mall because he repeatedly badgered teen-age girls. Some say that they heard this at the time, others in the years since. These people include five members of the local legal community, two cops who worked in the town, several people who hung out at the mall in the early eighties, and a number of former mall employees. (A request for comment from the Moore campaign was not answered.) Several of them asked that I leave their names out of this piece. The stories that they say they’ve heard for years have been swirling online in the days since the Post published its report. “Sources tell me Moore was actually banned from the Gadsden Mall and the YMCA for his inappropriate behavior of soliciting sex from young girls,” the independent Alabama journalist Glynn Wilson wrote on his Web site on Sunday. (Wilson declined to divulge his sources.) Teresa Jones, a deputy district attorney for Etowah County in the early eighties, told CNN last week that “it was common knowledge that Roy dated high-school girls.” Jones told me that she couldn’t confirm the alleged mall banning, but said, “It’s a rumor I’ve heard for years.”

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/locals-were-troubled-by-roy-moores-interactions-with-teen-girls-at-the-gadsden-mall

[tblue37]

33. The WaPo sought the first 4 out and persuaded them to go on record. The others then

came out to reinforce their claims when the Moore campaign and the RW hate machine went after the first 4. The current atmosphere, in which powerful, formerly untouchable men are finally being held to account, helps give them courage.

[still_one]

37. No doubt. In that case I just wish the WP found out about it earlier, so this scum bag wouldn't

perhaps even make it to the runoff

[Gabi Hayes]

39. It was Hillarys fault they came out

I mean, Obama!

I mean, Pocahontas

Just ask Bannon

They all conspired to make these women lie and lie and lie

Besides, who cares? Vote for the Judge...here come de Judge!

[WhiskeyGrinder]

36. Note to victims: Please consult with still_one on the best time to report your complaints.

[Orsino]

42. Look at what's happening to them in the national press.

Now imagine that notoriety writ small in Alabama, and the fear and/or shame that they've lived with.

It is probably the time to retire "why didn't they come forward" as a challenge to the stories of those targeted by predators. They were selected, isolated and groomed for vulnerability in their youth. We might as well ask why pigeons don't stand up to hawks.

[still_one]

43. If you read my OP that isn't what I said. I said I wish this would have occurred a few months ago

to lessen the likely hood that Moore would have been in the run offs. I understood perfectly well why they didn't come out, because of the victim shaming that would have occurred. It was when the victims came forward now, that I wished this information would have been present during the run off election a few months ago.

I wasn't aware, and it wasn't pointed out in this thread, that the Washington Post approached them on what happened. The victims didn't make the initial move.

[Orsino]

44. OP still asks "why didn't they come forward...?"

That phrasing is falling out of favor for what seem to me to be good reasons.

A lot is changing in the national dialogue in the last month or two, and Moore's targets have a bit more public support, but just allowing their stories to be told is still going to be hard on them.

[still_one]

45. Why did you leave off "during the runoffs"? Do you think that context is not significant?

I explained myself very clearly. If they came out now, why not a few months before when Moore could have been prevented from being in the runoffs.

I was also unaware that it was the WP that initiated them to come forward, so I would ask the WP, if they were going to push those victims to come out, why didn't they do it during the runoffs?

[Orsino]

46. Not when the national dialogue is only just now offering more support to targets of predators.

Media such as WaPo may have been investigating for a long time, but have recently focused their efforts, and it may be that doors are no longer getting slammed in their faces. We probably could have predicted an avalanche of allegations, but that harassment and predation are suddenly being taken seriously still surprises me.

[still_one]

47. The only national dialogue I am aware of giving support to the predator Moore is Fox. Regardless, I

understand your point, and agree that victim shaming is an all too common occurrence