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Sat Nov 18, 2017, 11:26 AM

"Russian troll" accusations

I'm seeing this a lot over the past few days, in various more or less heated threads, usually about the Franken issue.

It's an easy way to try to shut down an argument.

It's also exactly the sort of tactic a true "Russian troll", on whatever side of an argument, would deploy to sow division! Beware when you point at someone, because your other fingers are pointing at you.

It would be really neat if those in the habit of throwing this accusation around would cut it out.

If you genuinely suspect somebody's up to no good, I believe MIRT would like to hear from you.

Trolls may well be among us - Russian or just plain old GOP or simple mischief-makers, as has long been the case.

If so, it's going to take a bit more subtlety to identify them.

If they have bad arguments or are spreading misinformation, that should be easy enough to challenge without resorting to a cheap jibe.

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 32 replies Author Time Post
Reply "Russian troll" accusations (Original post)
Denzil_DC Nov 2017 OP
tblue37 Nov 2017 #1
Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #3
rzemanfl Nov 2017 #4
sarah FAILIN Nov 2017 #2
Reiyuki Nov 2017 #30
bagelsforbreakfast Nov 2017 #5
Control-Z Nov 2017 #6
WhiteTara Nov 2017 #15
crosinski Nov 2017 #7
Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #9
Kirk Lover Nov 2017 #8
Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #11
Kingofalldems Nov 2017 #20
Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #22
Kingofalldems Nov 2017 #27
Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #28
rzemanfl Nov 2017 #31
Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #32
moriah Nov 2017 #25
rzemanfl Nov 2017 #12
Kirk Lover Nov 2017 #14
moriah Nov 2017 #17
moriah Nov 2017 #18
MrsCoffee Nov 2017 #19
moriah Nov 2017 #21
Codeine Nov 2017 #10
Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #13
moriah Nov 2017 #16
Kirk Lover Nov 2017 #23
moriah Nov 2017 #24
Kirk Lover Nov 2017 #26
trueblue2007 Nov 2017 #29

Response to Denzil_DC (Original post)

Sat Nov 18, 2017, 11:34 AM

1. To post accusing a DU member of being a troll violates the rules and should be alerted.

If someone thinks he has spotted a troll, that person should alert on the suspected troll, not write an accusatory post.

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Response to tblue37 (Reply #1)

Sat Nov 18, 2017, 11:40 AM

3. Sometimes it's in the form "How's the weather in ...?" or a Russian term ("Da" or whatever)

It's hard to tell whether that could be classed as jokey or an alertworthy accusation.

There's enough tension around right now without people alerting each other willy-nilly, either for being a suspected troll or for insinuating somebody else might be one, but you're right - according to the TOS, an outright accusation would be alertable.

It would be easier just to stop doing it in our threads altogether.

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Response to Denzil_DC (Reply #3)

Sat Nov 18, 2017, 11:47 AM

4. In earlier days I used to use-

"When you fish, do you cast or just drag the lure behind the boat?"

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Response to Denzil_DC (Original post)

Sat Nov 18, 2017, 11:35 AM

2. These trolls are everywhere right now.

Granted, I am in Alabama and they are fighting like crazy for Roy Moore on every public FB post, but this is real. I just reported 2 in the last hour on FB. We call them out so others will realize they are bots and trolls then we report them and hope for the best.

I'm not telling someone here how to respond to people they see as trolls.

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Response to sarah FAILIN (Reply #2)

Sat Nov 18, 2017, 04:01 PM

30. How do you tell the difference between Russian trolls and regular trumpers?

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Response to Denzil_DC (Original post)

Sat Nov 18, 2017, 11:47 AM

5. Whenever I see one equate kissing an adult woman (Franken) with

 

a 30-something putting his hands down a 14-year old's pants (Moore) I say, if the Valenki fits, wear it. They usually disappear.

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Response to bagelsforbreakfast (Reply #5)

Sat Nov 18, 2017, 12:02 PM

6. I learned something new.

Had to look up Valenki. Is that something everyone else knows? Sometimes I feel so out of the loop. Especially since my kids call me out for not knowing something they know every chance they get.

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Response to Control-Z (Reply #6)

Sat Nov 18, 2017, 02:59 PM

15. This why I love DU!

I get to learn new words.

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Response to Denzil_DC (Original post)

Sat Nov 18, 2017, 12:04 PM

7. We get so many fingers pointing at each other here,

... that I lose track of who's accusing whom of what liberal offense on each particular day. The repugs know we do this to each other and use it against us. They set us up, like the Franken deal, and set back and watch while we tear each other apart. Sooner or later though, we won't take the bait anymore and find more effective responses.

But, in the meantime

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Response to crosinski (Reply #7)

Sat Nov 18, 2017, 12:09 PM

9. "The repugs know we do this to each other and use it against us."

Yup. I've seen it so many times over the years. Some even boast about doing it on some of the anti-DU sites.

Repugs or "Russians", doesn't really matter - similar agenda, similar tactics.

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Response to Denzil_DC (Original post)

Sat Nov 18, 2017, 12:04 PM

8. Being able to see someone's post history would clear up a lot of the suspicion I think.

 

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Response to Kirk Lover (Reply #8)

Sat Nov 18, 2017, 12:16 PM

11. That's really MIRT's job. They can see a lot about metadata that we can't.

You can usually find past posts via a Google or advanced search, but there's a danger of that turning into stalking and just feeding more paranoia.

I wouldn't be against introducing that sort of transparency, but for whatever reason, admin have chosen not to provide it (I've been a member of, even moderated, forums where it's available, and it can be a mixed blessing).

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Response to Denzil_DC (Reply #11)

Sat Nov 18, 2017, 03:10 PM

20. MIRT has no responsibility for anyone with over 100 posts.

You should learn the facts.

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Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #20)

Sat Nov 18, 2017, 03:41 PM

22. Then re-write that post in your mind to read:

"That's really MIRT's job if it's somebody with fewer than 100 posts. They can see a lot about metadata that we can't."

If it's a member of longer standing, despite MIRT's best efforts, I guess a message to admin might do the trick.

And if we're offering advice, you should learn some manners!

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Response to Denzil_DC (Reply #22)

Sat Nov 18, 2017, 03:51 PM

27. Ooh! I've been chastised!

For posting that you should get the facts. I'm ashamed.

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Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #27)

Sat Nov 18, 2017, 03:54 PM

28. Me too!

And that out of the blue.

It would be nice if this didn't turn into a head for trolling and backbiting.

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Response to Denzil_DC (Reply #22)

Sat Nov 18, 2017, 04:16 PM

31. Thank you for telling the trolls.

Just how many innocuous posts they need.

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Response to rzemanfl (Reply #31)

Sat Nov 18, 2017, 04:29 PM

32. Take it up with Kingofalldems (and see below for some dissent on his assertion).

Why, it's almost as if MIRT is the only DU body that can take action on true trolls.

Anyway, don't you have some "victimhood" you should be pursuing?

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Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #20)

Sat Nov 18, 2017, 03:45 PM

25. Maybe things have changed since I last served.

They were still capable of escalating a troll not caught over 100 posts to Admin at that point, but I also don't think we had the "5 post hide detention" yet then either.

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Response to Kirk Lover (Reply #8)

Sat Nov 18, 2017, 12:16 PM

12. Good afternoon. I have been thinking about using your victimhood at my hands

as an example. Real people know how to respond and clear the air.

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Response to rzemanfl (Reply #12)

Sat Nov 18, 2017, 12:26 PM

14. I'm not even sure why people would want to troll this forum...they get rid of you so fast that the

 

troll can't really operate effectively.

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Response to Kirk Lover (Reply #14)

Sat Nov 18, 2017, 03:05 PM

17. Which is why we all owe a salute to MIRT!

Usually obvious trolls are obvious, and they do have a forum where they keep track of less-obvious potential "trolls" to differentiate between truly malicious intruders and opinionated new people.

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Response to Kirk Lover (Reply #8)

Sat Nov 18, 2017, 03:08 PM

18. You can, if you use the advanced search.

But I've only done that when submitting a report to MIRT because someone has been acting in a way I remember from my time served there is truly suspicious.

It's best not to try to play detective publicly, though. We do have great people who do exactly that privately.

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Response to moriah (Reply #18)

Sat Nov 18, 2017, 03:10 PM

19. Advanced search is only available to star members.

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Response to MrsCoffee (Reply #19)

Sat Nov 18, 2017, 03:11 PM

21. Ahh! Okay, so you have to demonstrate investment before...

... you get to snoop through everything someone posted.

That probably does help keep amateur witchhunts to a minimum.

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Response to Denzil_DC (Original post)

Sat Nov 18, 2017, 12:15 PM

10. Exactly the sort of post I would expect from you, comrade.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #10)

Sat Nov 18, 2017, 12:16 PM

13. Excellent. I was waiting for that!

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Response to Denzil_DC (Original post)

Sat Nov 18, 2017, 03:02 PM

16. The only people I think are trollbots about this are on Twitter. ;)

The people reposting the oh-so-juicy retweet bait by those trolls were sadly caught by the tasty bait.

Not trolls.

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Response to moriah (Reply #16)

Sat Nov 18, 2017, 03:41 PM

23. Yup and that's exactly where I go fishing.

 

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Response to Kirk Lover (Reply #23)

Sat Nov 18, 2017, 03:43 PM

24. Fishing for trolls is a dangerous sport, man. Nt

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Response to moriah (Reply #24)

Sat Nov 18, 2017, 03:45 PM

26. Not for me. n/t

 

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Response to Denzil_DC (Original post)

Sat Nov 18, 2017, 03:59 PM

29. Alert on the troll posts please. the original poster is 100000% correct.

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