This message was self-deleted by its author

[LovingA2andMI]

This message was self-deleted by its author (LovingA2andMI) on Tue Dec 5, 2017, 02:00 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[underthematrix]

2. Here's the issue for me. This started out as

story about a man who as a 32 year old DA was preying on teenage girls as young as 14 some of whom he sexually harassed and molested. This doesn't belong in the MeToo hastag because these were children.

[oberliner]

6. That's not true

It started in response to the allegations about Harvey Weinstein.

[underthematrix]

19. All were adult women with the exception of a 17 year old

who was approached but not assaulted.

My point was that there's a huge difference between child sexual molestation and sexual harassment/assault.

[OilemFirchen]

23. It started with Fatty Arbuckle.

Maybe Caligula. Was Bill Cosby between the two? Bob Packwood?

Never was a history buff.

[niyad]

25. sorry, was started LONG before the weinstein allegations

The Woman Who Created #MeToo Long Before Hashtags

By SANDRA E. GARCIAOCT. 20, 2017



Tarana Burke created a nonprofit organization to help victims of sexual harassment and assault. Credit via justbeinc.org

In 1997, Tarana Burke sat across from a 13-year-old girl who had been sexually abused. The young girl was explaining her experience, and it left Ms. Burke speechless. That moment is where the Me Too campaign was born.

“I didn’t have a response or a way to help her in that moment, and I couldn’t even say ‘me too,’ ” Ms. Burke said.

“It really bothered me, and it sat in my spirit for a long time,” she added.

Ten years after that conversation, Ms. Burke created Just Be Inc., a nonprofit organization that helps victims of sexual harassment and assault. She sought out the resources that she had not found readily available to her 10 years before and committed herself to being there for people who had been abused.

And she gave her movement a name: Me Too.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/20/us/me-too-movement-tarana-burke.html

[Guilded Lilly]

3. The fake use is a blatant and disrespectful smack against genuine

victims of sexual aggression who may have been seriously affected by their experiences.

I would also suspect that a lot of the accusations are being brought to light with decidedly political motivations ...and compensation. Also disrespectful of real victims with serious struggles and anxiety.

[oberliner]

4. Would you be saying the same if it was a Republican?

Rather than Al Franken?

[oberliner]

13. She posted about it on Facebook at the time

For what that is worth.

[B2G]

22. Yes, she says she did. nt

[B2G]

26. She told him after Franken walked away.

Did you read the article?

[mythology]

40. So that's a no

It's really sad that you seem to lack the empathy to understand why a person might not feel empowered to come forward at the time of an incident. Many victims of sexual harassment or assault often feel as if it's their fault and have to take time to work through that. Some might feel like their job or social standing would be at risk. Some might feel there is a physical danger in coming forward.

Quit trying to diminish how other people feel because you claim you wouldn't respond like they did.

[dansolo]

36. What *exactly* did she post in Facebook?

What exactly did she write in Facebook at the time? I keep hearing that she made a comment in response to another comment regarding how close they were together. A more likely scenario is that he may have pulled her in a little closer that she intended for the photo. But that doesn't at all mean that he grabbed her butt. For that matter, if he really grabbed her butt, why would she have even posted the picture? Sorry, but this whole thing stinks.

[OnDoutside]

38. This.

[tblue37]

42. But her post sounds like joking hyperbole with her sister. nt

[kcr]

11. Are you saying that's the only reason you believe the victims of the GOP

is because the perps are Republican?

[oberliner]

14. I'm saying I think women who speak out about this should be believed

Regardless of the political views of the people involved.

[kcr]

18. Well, who would disagree with that?

Only the ones who are sticking by and defending Anthony Weiner, and let's see, who else, Spitzer. Don't you get tired of how many Dems are constantly defending them all the time? Wow, you're so right!

[OnDoutside]

39. Great point.

[oberliner]

43. I can personally say that I defended Bill Clinton

When he was being accused of various things.

[GeorgeGist]

29. Why?

[treestar]

30. That is as unjust as saying they should never be believed.

[GeorgeGist]

28. Do you say the same thing ...

when males lie?

[kcr]

7. I hear you. Mine is #OohoohLookAtMe!

It makes a mockery of #MeToo and it makes me angry. I resent being told we have to take them seriously when it's so obvious. We see them. I just said it in another post and I'll say it here. The Right don't see us as human beings, but caricatures. They hear things like Believe All Women, and they don't hear the message behind it. Oh, no. Their little ears perked right up at an opportunity instead. They make us into caricatures and call us Social Justice Warriors, and claim we're being literal. That we really do mean believe all women no matter what! Then they pounce, because they are masters at manipulation.

[pandr32]

10. I agree with you

At home here we moved in for a close picture (clearly the husband would want to have a good shot of Franken, a celebrity) and found there is no way not to touch the back side of the other when you are angled like that. Franken clearly would not have thrown his arm around the woman's shoulder because he doesn't know her. The wife in the picture likely had her own arm tucked behind Franken. It was a friendly picture--they were not facing off like a pre-fight shot.
Good grief. This is not sexual misconduct.
This is all they can say about our decent Democrats in Congress and if we give it any credibility it will expand--not end. It is a tactic.
It is time for us all to support our Liberal Lion, Al Franken, because the hyenas are circling around him.

[OilemFirchen]

12. Let's try this new hashtag:

#HannityBookedMeToo

[uponit7771]

16. RussTrumplicans are trying to dilute and conflate the issue !!!

[loyalsister]

17. That's because it is now focused on men

#Me too was intended to show the numbers. The number of accusors, and the high profile element is what inspired victims to see that they aren't alone. This is about a culture that has widely accepted sexual predation as a normal part of the world we live in.

Turning it around and making it about the accused reduces the effectiveness. All predators benefit when the story becomes about particular incidences and specific individuals. It's not losing steam. It is being torn down by shamelessly reverting to the standard defensiveness and tactics.

[kcr]

31. Are you saying ratfucking is indeed going on, but we have to ignore it?

Because of the focus on the accusation rather than accused? I'm asking for clarification of the argument. Everyone is all over the place on this, and there are some who seem to legitimately believe the accusation, so it's hard to tell. But I do sense that sometimes this actually seems to be the argument. If so, I would argue that this actually does more damage by giving them control of the narrative and making it the literal interpretation they always claimed it was. But they won't do the same thing because they aren't acting in good faith. Are they going to immediately start calling for resignation of GOP members the minute an accusation comes forth? Hell no.

[loyalsister]

34. I'm saying this is not about politics

It's about a culture that has so normalized sexual abuse that it has been viewed as a fact of life, regardless of politics. Turning it into a political team sport about what kind of predation is worse (thereby saying some is okay), and whose stories matter based on politics, looks straight through the person who has been negatively affected.

Why worry that they are calling for resignation? I don't think he should because he is challenging the patriarchal arrangement that has never held sexual predators accountable. He is not trying shut accusors up. He is challenging the normalization of sexual predation while some supporters are defending it.

I think he knows we really need to address the fact that these stories were buried. AND, that it has persisted because loyal friends help turn the story around so that the man is the victim. I think I read recently that more women are sexual predators than men.

[blueinredohio]

27. That's what I've been saying all along call them out on it don't wait

[Polly Hennessey]

32. Thank you LovingA2andMI

Would say more but have already been accused of being insensitive on the subject. Just being realistic to my mind. Already beginning to see wisps of trouble with accusations popping up daily. You have said what my feelings are much better. My defense of women is crumbling a bit. Men may become afraid to be alone with us or to touch us. How sad, nothing like a good hug from a great guy.

[usedtobedemgurl]

33. While I agree with the 'Me Too" Part of Your Writing.....

I do not agree with the whole coming out then and there. I am glad you have enough strength to do it but not everyone does. I have spoken out and I have been silent depending on the situation and where I was in my life. Even after speaking out, I do not continue to speak out every single time.

I hung out with a group of friends for several years before one lady came to me and told me a guy, Chan, who was also in our group, had been sexually assaulting her for years. She spoke up to him and said her breasts were hers and he was not allowed to touch them. He said too bad and touched them anyway! I confronted him and he admitted what he had done. I said, "You know that is sexual assault, right?" He said it was not assault and it was fun. I told him she was under my protection and he continued to assault her. It took me making a very public post for him to go underground and for a plethora of women to come out saying he had been doing that for years. The stories went back twenty or so years to his college days when a woman reported him to the RA and they said they knew all about it from the complaints they received regarding Chan! I know he has dropped out of our stratosphere but heard he is still doing this to women. His wife knows. His friends know. No one wants to press charges. Some people do not have the ability to speak up or report things to the cops.

Then there was the time I went to a party with a friend. She went to the bathroom and when she came back she said she was leaving. Three days later she told me that a guy followed her into the bathroom and watched her pee. Afterwards he "aggressively" kissed her. At that point she shoved him away. She would not tell me who it was because he looked sorry when she shoved him away.

Then there was the time I had pre-negotiated a date with a guy. He knew there would be no sex and definitely no touching of private parts. We were in the parking lot kissing at the end of the date. His hands started to wander. On one hand it felt good. On the other, I had clearly stated that there would be no touching under clothing. I did not stop him and felt lower than dirt at the end of the encounter. I wrote to him a couple of days later stating I told him my boundaries and he did not stick by that. I stated I was partially responsible for not reinforcing them and telling him no but he was also responsible. He knew boundaries and did not check to see if everything he was doing was ok. I told him the blame did NOT fall entirely on him but I could never again go out with a guy who does that. I never saw him again.

When I was 17 my Uncle was left in charge of me while my mom was off on business. He came onto me. I did not tell my mom for years even though I was, essentially a woman. I was at the end of high school and getting ready to attend college. I did manage to mention it here and there, maybe three times, to my mom, and she always dismissed it. The final time I brought it up was in front of my best friend and my husband. When there were other people present, she finally took it seriously. This was ten years after the fact. My Uncle denied it. I then threw out I was hiding my boyfriend in my room that night and he heard it all. The explanation changed to me misunderstanding him. Then I said I could call my old boyfriend and let my mom know there was no room for any misunderstanding. My mom yelled at me that she would probably never talk to her brother, again, and what more did I want? My friend and husband were blown away.

I have many more stories. Again, it is great that you can come forward and speak up. A lot of times a woman will not come forward because she is shy, will people blame her, will someone point a finger and wonder if they could have done more to stop it, and the fears go on and on.
Not everyone is capable of saying something then and there. Sometimes you know people will not believe you - much like my mom. Sometimes you feel nothing will be done - like when you find out more than ten women have already talked to the RA and they let the predatory behavior continue. Sometimes the predator is a popular person and you know hell will reign down on you if you dare confront the image everyone has about the person.

We are Democrats. We support people and understand they are all different. We understand that just because we can do something in a situation, it does not mean others are capable of it. We see the differences in people and appreciate them. I love your utopian vision that every woman should be empowered to come forward immediately when something happens. That is a wonderful thing to strive for and we do have reality to deal with.

[Lee-Lee]

41. Every person reacts different and handles it different

And your assumptions that everyone from all kinds of diverse backgrounds and circumstances and experiences should all react only like you would or only take actions only like you would is not juts offensive- it’s demeaning to all of them and another symptom of the problem and attitude that has lead to so many of these cases not being reported of or spoken of.

You are not every woman. You don’t have the the same experiences as every other woman. Your attitudes in what you perceived as harassment and how/when you spoke up are 100% valid. But the attitudes and perceptions and decisions of when/how every other woman chooses to speak up are 100% just as valid, and for you to dismiss them or diminish them or even attack them because it wasn’t exactly how you would do it is a horrible attitude that just will serve to encourage more women to suffer in silence.

[eShirl]

44. "accidental" touching

yeah. I notice that men accidentally touch women a LOT more than they accidentally touch men.

Hmmmm.............

[Denzil_DC]

48. Looks like part of the strategy.

Devalue allegations, cloud the issue, muddy the waters.