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BoneyardDem

(1,202 posts)
1. Why is Bernie making any amendment to a tax bill no Dem wants to see pass?
Sun Dec 3, 2017, 02:23 AM
Dec 2017

Voting for one provision, even with an amendment still,puts the rest of the bill on track.

Ms. Toad

(33,996 posts)
14. If the bill is inevitable, responsible legislators have a moral obligation
Sun Dec 3, 2017, 01:20 PM
Dec 2017

To minimize it's impact on the lives of the real people they represent. Had the amendment passed, at least some of the most vulnerable would have had protection.

Adding protection for vulnerable people is the morally right thing to do. No dem should be playing partisan politics with people's lives.

 

BoneyardDem

(1,202 posts)
16. Sounds like capitulation to me.
Mon Dec 4, 2017, 12:09 AM
Dec 2017

I thought the Bernie purists had a very different take on things....no compromise, no giving any evil a foot hold.

Ms. Toad

(33,996 posts)
19. I'm not. Feel free to search -
Mon Dec 4, 2017, 11:48 AM
Dec 2017

connected with Bernie or not, I have been consistently challenging anyone who says the equivalent of, "don't lift a finger, make them own this."

My first priority is mitigating the direct damage, and I dont' give a damn who is involved with the mitigation.

Prohibiting, or making it harder to, cut Medicare mitigates the damage - if the bill is ultimately passed. That's what the proposed amendment did. Mitigate damages.

It's not an excuse, and it certainly isn't wonderfulness. It is a moral imperative to do what we can to try to lessen the impact of this travesty.

Lunabell

(6,046 posts)
11. No, don't accuse your fellow du'ers of this.
Sun Dec 3, 2017, 04:00 AM
Dec 2017


It was a serious inquiry. I couldn't understand why they would vote against it. I know nothing about the procedures and, yes it pissed me off. But now I know.

brush

(53,743 posts)
5. Let me get this straigt. So if the amendments were approved, Sanders was going to vote for the bill?
Sun Dec 3, 2017, 02:41 AM
Dec 2017

If he wasn't, why waste his time on amending a piece of shit tax scam bill that should be fought tooth and nail, not amended?


Someone pls explain the spinning their wheels.

Ms. Toad

(33,996 posts)
15. No. He was going to vote against the bill.
Sun Dec 3, 2017, 01:25 PM
Dec 2017

You amend it to protect vulnerable people, so that if it ultimately passed, those depending on Medicare and Medicaid have some protection.

Amending a bill has nothing to do with supporting it.

dweller

(23,613 posts)
6. it was explained in the tweet
Sun Dec 3, 2017, 02:51 AM
Dec 2017

it's a procedural move...

"Yes Emma it's procedural. If you vote "yes" i.e. On the winning side in this case, you have the right (Roberts rules of order) to move to bring the bill back for consideration"

Lunabell

(6,046 posts)
9. Ok, seriously I missed that part.
Sun Dec 3, 2017, 03:57 AM
Dec 2017

I don't know much about procedures or the Roberts rules, but that makes much more sense.

BigmanPigman

(51,567 posts)
12. I was trying to keep up during the Senate vote on repealing the
Sun Dec 3, 2017, 04:09 AM
Dec 2017

ACA and it seemed like the rules changed daily. It is confusing, especially when they do not follow the rules or change them constantly to suit their agenda.

Igel

(35,274 posts)
13. Congress isn't quite Roberts.
Sun Dec 3, 2017, 01:09 PM
Dec 2017

But Roberts is based on Congressional rules from the last century. They haven't changed all that much in most respects, but Roberts changed a few things just because, well, they're his rules and he thought what he said worked better.

But it makes sense in principle. If you lose a vote, you have a motive to try to get a revote over and over just to gum things up. Otherwise, non-action is non-action. Something wins 51-49, each of those 49 "losers" could constantly move to reintroduce the measure. Minorities in a committee have rights; majorities also have rights. Roberts tries to balance them and give a workable set of procedures to get the committee to work efficiently with due regard to majority and minority rights.

Regular order in the Senate is there to preserve minority rights. McCain was right in decrying violating this order. However, his was an equal opportunity decrial that landed severe blows on both parties. Trying to point out small differences and make them into huge mountains of principle I think is specious.

There's another provision in Robert's that you can't reintroduce a measure unless it's substantially different from a previous measure. That gives teeth to the "you can only reintroduce a measure that lost if you were on the winning side." If not for this, then the former rule would be meaningless. "Yeah, it's the same as the measure that I voted for but which lost yesterday, but I'm giving it a different name so it's a new measure."

Congress, sadly, plays with this rule quite a bit when it suits the leadership. It's a bipartisan sort of play that has the effect of saying, "Minorities have no rights." It weakens the system greatly, makes it a majoritarian system that each side loves when it gets them things and hates when it gets their forever enemies things. It's comparable to the cracks that form in metal when it's repeatedly bent but hasn't yet broken.

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