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[DonViejo]

This message was self-deleted by its author (DonViejo) on Sun Dec 3, 2017, 09:35 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[FarPoint]

1. It's a learning curve ...

I'm okay with that....our society, culture, community all based on heterosexual relationship family base.... education regarding homosexual normalization is a process.

[hlthe2b]

4. In 2007 and for years after, I can recall very similar on DU and it has continued with Lindsey

Graham. I have not seen nor heard anything remotely disrespectful from her re: LGBT since she has been on MSNBC--which is quite a few years now.


If someone can show otherwise (conclusively) fine; otherwise, I will assume she has evolved as have many in the past decade.

[DonViejo]

5. Is your decision based on reading the entire article or just the excerpt, above?

I don't disagree with you per se, but, I'm not real comfortable totally agreeing with you. I have to let this "news" digest, I guess.

[hlthe2b]

6. Perhaps waiting for her response rather than ONLY Dan Abraham's RW-leaning rag

[DonViejo]

12. Ah, yes; the traditional smear; a publication prints something we don't agree with...

"it's right wing," "it's far left," "it's corporatist"

[hlthe2b]

14. No... it is at least worthy of waiting on a response by the person smeared.

by said publication. Or should we just have her fired now?

[DonViejo]

37. But that isn't what you wrote, is it?...

You labeled the article as being from a "RW-leaning rag", dismissing it as a source of valid news. And, who suggested or even implied she should be fired? FirePoint didn't and neither did I.

[hlthe2b]

39. What I wrote underscores the need to at least listen to the targeted progressive--what a thought!

And, perhaps you ought to research the source of Mediate's story. Those tweets are from some really disgusting RWers/trolls. Since you seemingly believe every word unquestioningly, asking you whether you think she should be fired is appropriate.

Nice trying to hide behind Firepoint, btw, who is not even part of our discussion on the sourcing of your Joy Reid "expose'"

[DonViejo]

44. You do realize we're on the same side on this issue, yes?

Where Ms. Reid was 10 or 12 years ago matters little to me compared to where she is today. BTW, the article isn't my "expose" but, nice try!

[yardwork]

59. Your OP promotes a grossly misleading post by a highly biased source.

This is not up to your usual standards.

[femmedem]

57. If you read the story, you will find links to the archived posts, which you can read for yourself.

It's fair to give her a chance to talk about any evolution in her thinking, but she did write the posts. https://web.archive.org/web/20130708032618/http://blog.reidreport.com/labels/Charlie%20Crist.html

[FarPoint]

8. Everyone grows at their own pace...

I prefer to look at growth verses judgement of past...

[DonViejo]

10. So, IOW you didn't read the entire article?

[greeny2323]

2. OK

Perhaps I need to be educated about something but how are these comments "anti-gay"? Instead they seem to be aimed at hypocritical conservative politicians who support anti-gay policies but who are themselves secretly gay.

This feels like a hit job.

[tenderfoot]

16. It is...

and as per usual, some people here are jumping on the bandwagon.

Check out the users profile... a typical rw tit.

https://twitter.com/jamie_maz

[DURHAM D]

17. Exactly

[yardwork]

45. That's exactly what this is, and the headline is very misleading.

Plenty of gay bloggers mock Charlie Crist (and Lindsey Graham) in exactly the same way.

Joy is not being homophobic. She's mocking hypocritical right wing politicians.

[still_one]

73. In fact Jon Stewart and Bill Maher used to constantly mock Graham, and I doubt anyone would consider

either Maher or Stewart to be anti-gay

What they are doing is exactly what you are pointing out, politicians hypocritical stands on issues affecting the gay community

[madaboutharry]

3. The article is very disturbing and disappointing.

As much as I like listening to her talk about Trump, there should be some ramifications for this. Obviously no one at MSNBC looked back far enough in her journalism career to find these blog postings. At the very least, she needs to own this and issue an apology to Charlie Christ and to all of her viewers. She needs to acknowledge the ignorance of her statements.

[BannonsLiver]

21. Should she be fired?

[madaboutharry]

28. I wouldn't say she should be fired.

I said she needs to acknowledge that those blog postings are ignorant and that she needs to apologize. No one is saying she should lose her job.

[BannonsLiver]

29. How magnanimous if you.

[madaboutharry]

31. Oh please.

She needs to apologize. End of story.

[BannonsLiver]

36. If she wants to she can apologize.

I’m not one to demand women do things because I say so, let alone women of color.

[yardwork]

47. This gay person says the same about Charlie Crist.

[uponit7771]

67. Only when one read to just a small part of it instead of the whole thing. She was calling out

... Winger hypocracy and you know that

[janterry]

7. That's terrible!

Though, and I say this as someone who lived in Tally for a long time.

Most political insiders think he is gay. It's his own private business, of course, and he has never come out as gay. But it's not quite a conspiracy theory - it's kind of accepted among the political hacks in town. One of the reasons the gossip reached a crescendo had to do with gay marriage. I think people wanted him to take a different position on the issue, given - what has been widely rumored (in the press as well as among politicans in Tally) his own identification.

At the end of the day, it would be fair to say it was gossip. It would also be fair to discuss the whole process of outing unwilling (and possibly not even gay) people. But that was the politics of *that* day. I'm not suggesting it was right (nor did it lead anywhere) - just that it was a story and it was reported quite a bit.

OTOH bigoted remarks and homophobia are beyond the pale. She needs to apologize and explain.

[uponit7771]

65. When one reads the whole article is about Winger hypocracy and you know that !!!!

[tenderfoot]

9. It warms my heart that conservative twitter users bemoan homophobia

https://twitter.com/jamie_maz

Check out other posts by this user... this is a smear campaign

[FreepFryer]

32. Nicely done. (n/t)

[Arazi]

11. Disgusting. That level of homophobia is inexcusable. Ugh

[yardwork]

52. Lol. You're cute.

[Drahthaardogs]

13. Watch Eddie Murphy RAW and you can see

What was allowed comedically and otherwise just a decade ago.

Times have changed for the better

[FarPoint]

19. Exactly....

One step forward at a time... going forward is key.

[Arazi]

48. "Going forward" for Bernie voters too? Non-voting millennials?

Who gets the magical "let's not look back, it's most important to unite and move forward"?

[FarPoint]

55. Looks like you have a whole new Thread topic to post.

Proceed.

[genxlib]

25. I'm not disagreeing with your point

But Eddie Murphy's Raw was 30 years ago (1987).

No doubt things have changed since then but the time frames do not match up.

[Arazi]

43. Yup Raw was 30 yrs ago, Joys comments were 8 yrs ago

Not even in the same time frame at all

[delisen]

42. Our society changed a lot in a decade. Maybe it is best if we actually give credit to those in the

on the cutting edge of this change, take some pride in ourselves a bit for following their lead, and focus on maintaining these human rights of people going forward.

We have enormous tasks ahead of us, and if we don't acknowledge our progress, so any will lapse into despair.

I personally am thankful that people insisted upon their human rights, braved the scorn and the bullying, and that millions of us followed their lead. It has brought us a better America.

[DURHAM D]

15. Our Russian trolls don't get it -

It is the hypocrisy stupid.

I'm with Joy. She gets it.

[BannonsLiver]

18. +1

I’m getting the same vibe.

[FreepFryer]

26. +1. I prefer Joy Reid to the Internet Research Agency.

[Glimmer of Hope]

77. Yep. This has been posted before and removed.

[Iliyah]

20. I still like her.

My parents were very religious. Back then gays were considered evil, subhuman, and part of the Satan group. I grew up believing that. I don't now.

[Arazi]

23. 2009 is only 8 years ago

[oberliner]

22. "Numerous anti-gay articles" is not a fair description

The articles aren't anti-gay, they are anti-Republican but include some potentially offensive references to certain Republican politicians that appear to be attacking their masculinity in a manner that could be described as insulting.

[uponit7771]

64. Yep I see her calling out Republican hypocrisy this is a hit piece post

[NCTraveler]

24. Did someone say something about the great white male hope?

Only way I see a weak hit piece like this coming out. This is how Trump and team deal with attack.

More attacks on progressives from the “economic anxiety” crowd.

[Skidmore]

40. This week Trumpets and bots have been trying

to gin up a campaign to get msnbc and CNN shut down by targeting more liberal program. They have been focused on Joy because they label her as racist. I don't put stock in stories smears from RW wing attack mill.

[yardwork]

72. Joy said something critical about Bernie Sanders last week, so now this hit piece.

Looks like Russian trolls leap to Bernie's defense. Why would that be?

[Blue_Adept]

27. Man, the Crist thing was a regular topic here for YEARS

[FreepFryer]

30. Its almost as if the people pushing this scandal werent in the US back then.

[Blue_Adept]

33. They're just digging for dirt to continue the false news narrative

and to try and paint as many people attacking them as terrible people.

Cause, you know, people on the left tend to evolve whereas people on the right tend to regress.

I'm sure I've made plenty of gay jokes over the years in my youth, probably some online, and lots in the company of gay friends as a back and forth kind of thing. People change, humor changes, understanding changes.

[FreepFryer]

35. Far more introspective and thoughtful response than trolls deserve. Good on you. (nt)

[stonecutter357]

34. #fakenews.

[femmedem]

53. It is not fake news, unfortunately. The blog posts are archived and available for you to read.

https://web.archive.org/web/20130708032618/http://blog.reidreport.com/labels/Charlie%20Crist.html

[stonecutter357]

56. no thanks.

[uponit7771]

58. It's fake news, articles being taken out of context

[George Eliot]

38. I'm no Reid fan so it doesn't surprise me. I find her extremely judgemental in her views and the wa.

she expresses them.

[heaven05]

41. so now you

want her credibility destroyed? What is the purpose? Every person not gay has, if they continued to mature, had learn about gay culture STOP the judgemental attitudes based on biblical bullshit and other BS and realize, human is human and we all must accept all non violent, non hateful people and get along with everyone not in the bigoted camp. I really don't understand this shit...well down a couple of notches, Never to recover, that's my judgement ...yet sooner or later everyone, everyone disappoints. Geez..is it because she is really trying to keep fighting the abomination in the WH. She is allowed to make mistakes in life and I DAMN WELL BET YOU, SHE DOES NOT FEEL THIS WAY NOW. This is a smear job.

[oasis]

46. We're living in the NOW.

As long as Joy remains a powerful voice for OUR side, she's a keeper.

[mr_liberal]

49. Crist ran as an independent for senate a while back against a black democrat

(I can't remember his name) and I believe against Marco Rubio. There were quite a few Democrat leaders proposing that democrat voters should support Crist to keep Rubio out of the senate because the black democrat had zero chance of winning. That was a reasonable thing to suggest, but it made a lot of blacks really angry. That may be what this is about. That may be why Reid hates Charlie Crist, and these slurs/rumors may have been what people like Reid used against him in that race.

[femmedem]

50. After reading some of her archived blog posts, I'm beyond disappointed.

Here is a snippet of her description of Crist's wedding from December 12, 2008:

"...Hm. Costumes. How fitting. And there were protesters, too! Gay ones, even! Plus a press conference after... And it wouldn't be a kind of gay wedding without a guy with a big handlebar mustache in attendance. Thanks, Geraldo! But what's most interesting of all, is the way the supposed Fourth Estate, the national and statewide media pretend that they don't all know what they know they know about Crist's sexual orientation. Such hard-hitting reporting burnishes your faith in democracy, doesn't it?..."

Full post in these archives: https://web.archive.org/web/20130708032618/http://blog.reidreport.com/labels/Charlie%20Crist.html

For me, whether she's accurate or not about Crist's sexual orientation isn't the issue. What matters to me is a blog post titled "Miss Cristie Leaves the Building" and her clear belief that the press is derelict for not writing about his orientation.

[uponit7771]

61. So this wasnt about winger hypocracy ?

[Dem2]

51. The right started this character assassination

The left falls in line as expected.

[BannonsLiver]

60. The post above yours demonstrates that clearly.

It’s crazy that people can’t see they are being manipulated.

[yardwork]

54. This is embarrassing. You should self-delete this OP.

[uponit7771]

62. +1, it sounds like Reid was writing about winger hypocracy

[yardwork]

63. She was, and so were many others at the time, including gay bloggers.

[oberliner]

66. The use of "Miss Lindsey" can be found on DU

I believe you yourself called out posters for that sort of thing (rightfully so).

[HipChick]

68. Racist,right-wing attack and smear by Alt-Right...why is DU supporting this?

[tenderfoot]

69. Here's gay blogger Joe Jervis's (JoeMyGod) archive on Charlie Crist

http://www.joemygod.com/tag/charlie-crist/

Read through and get back to us on what a homophobe Joy Reid is.

[tenderfoot]

71. and his archives on Lindsey Graham

http://www.joemygod.com/tag/lindsey-graham/

[MaryMagdaline]

70. When Charlie Crist was Republican he took a lot of

Heat because it was known that in Tallahassee, he had a young male lover. Charlie was never anti-gay in his policies but because he was Republican and was with the anti-gay party, these types of attacks were common. Just as we liberals still attack Rick Perry with even less evidence that he is gay. Everyone believed he got married to get the VP slot from McCain. Everyone thought he did not get it because he was gay.

Joy should not have used the gay slur. I hear gay men use that "miss so-and-so," especially in the south but it's wrong for Joy to use it. I don't completely agree that we cannot comment on someone's closeted state or not. As Dems in Florida, where gay adoption was once prohibited, we would go after republicans.

So you know, I campaigned for Charlie Crist from August to November 2014 to prevent the horror show we have now; I just sent him another contribution for his reelection and he has my cell phone number. Not a friend and I don't go to his victory parties. Charlie is a very compromised person in many ways but we would have had Medicaid expansion if he had won and he is solely responsible for insisting on paper trail at voting booths.

Getting back to Joy: I think the vicious taunting was stuff we were all doing in Florida when Charlie was trying to be VP and we were trying to get Obama elected.

[mucifer]

74. Maybe working with Rachel Maddow has opened up her mind a bit more

Those two seem to have very good rapport.

[brewens]

75. It does take some learning at some point for a lot of us. Using anti-gay slurs, even against

someone hypocritical that deserves some slamming, is not good. That relays the information that at some level, you consider being gay a bad thing. I go as far as saying the disclaimer people throw in when stating their support of gay issues is much the same. "I'm not gay (because it would be really bad if anyone thought I was) but..." If you support the gay rights issues, say so and don't give a shit what anyone else thinks about that! So what if they might think you are gay?

I got people pissed at me for calling Chris Matthews, "Sissy" Matthews several years back. I thought it was funny and didn't realize some may take offense to that. If Reid has learned to not say stuff like "Miss Charlie" by now, I'd say that should be good enough. An apology saying she knows better now wouldn't hurt.

[OnDoutside]

76. Having read the article, this smells of the far left getting one

back for what Reid said about Jane Sanders. As the article states, Joy has already been criticized for this yet the far left want to weaponize this old story to bring Reid down for having the temerity of taking on the Sanders.