The Al Franken flap has produced a good thing.

[LAS14]

It has raised to the forefront the idiocy of "zero tolerance" and "the default should be to believe the woman." Faced with putting these ideas into action in all cases has made DUers (and, I hope thousands/millions) of other people realize that "Zero tolerance is zero common sense." (Another poster). I'm not saying the accusers are lying. Dunno. I'm just saying get real. Don't put sex in some sort of Victorian/Puritan magical category. Care about the environment and the poor and our health care!

[janterry]

1. It should NOT be I believe the women

It should be, I respect and listen to women.

I respect and listen to all women who make allegations. But as a reasonable person, I wait until the facts are in to make a determination about credibility. To do otherwise, is foolish

[SHRED]

4. Exactly

[uponit7771]

17. +1, if we wanted to accept things as the come with no discernment we'd be republicans

[zaj]

2. It's not about sex, it's about power.

Puritanical restrictions are also about power.

The question is, did Franken abuse his power. Clearly others have and it's possible Franken has been doing that as well.

But I'm not sure if that's even being claimed by some of those reporting inappropriate behavior.

But the focus shouldn't be on *sex* but on *abuse of power*.

[bagelsforbreakfast]

3. In can we SAS this with the McMartin witch trials nm

[Tommy_Carcetti]

5. Allegations of sexual misbehavior should be like commenting about bombs on an airplane.

I.e., it shouldn't be considered a joking matter to anyone and is something that needs to be investigated. But it shouldn't necessarily be taken at face value, either.

[oberliner]

6. Are you saying the default should be to assume the women are lying?

[eppur_se_muova]

8. Welcome to Full Ignore.

Anyone making such a STUPID assumption fully deserves it.

[oberliner]

9. If "the default should be to believe the woman" is idiocy - what should the default be?

That was the point of my question.

[LAS14]

12. It should be to pay careful attention to the facts. All of the facts.

[dsc]

18. It should be to take the charges seriously

investigate the charges, and determine what actually happened to the best of our abilities using the same standards we use in other investigations. We are able to do this in other aspects of our lives without that much difficulty.

[Pacifist Patriot]

14. As a woman, I'm kind of tired of that.

Why can't the default be "assume all situations are not identical so a responsible investigation is warranted?" Then take the woman seriously (with both respect and skepticism in balance) and get to the bottom of it. I don't want to be automatically believed or thought a liar. I'd like to be treated like an adult deserving of my unique circumstances being addressed as such.

[ProudLib72]

7. I thought the same

When I saw the phrase "zero tolerance" being used in connection with Franken, I thought, "And how has that worked out in schools?" We've had a lot of moronic decisions made about students based on zero tolerance, more than enough to realize the policy makes zero sense. Yet we are applying it to Congress?! I guess if the rethugs can have their trickle down economics then we can have our zero tolerance. I just wish we had chosen another failed idea that actually served our needs the way the rethugs did.

[delisen]

11. Same Senators have decried zero tolerance in other contexts.

There is something happening here, what it is ain't exactly clear.........but it sure as hell is troubling.

[Bengus81]

10. Even Manson got a day in court.......

Franken....eh,nah we just need him out of sight,out of mind ASAP..........

[delisen]

13. trying to disappear H Clinton and Franken - two

who see the clear and present danger.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. How about we judge people we like the same way we judge people we dislike .

The DU jury system where we adjudicate whether a post is to be removed or not without knowing the author has a kind of merit.

[BannonsLiver]

16. It's also made my 2020 primary choice really fucking easy

Gillibrand, Booker, Harris, Moulton, Warren have been eliminated.

[RandomAccess]

19. Victorian/Puritan has nothing to do with it,

magical or not, as others have said. And you do everyone, including yourself, a terrible disservice by conflating sex with sexual harassment and assault. Those are control over and violence against women sexualized.