"I'm ashamed that so many 'liberals' decry holding sexual harassers like Al Franken accountable"

[Vidal]

From DailyKos
By wagatwe
Thursday Dec 07, 2017

"The hypocrisy I’ve seen within the progressive community—particularly on this site—makes me sick. I’ve seen many people feign a moral superiority over conservatives openly supporting sexual predators like Trump and Roy Moore. But the “progressives” fighting tooth and nail to defend Al Franken (and throw all survivors under the bus as a result)? You’re no better than them.

Don’t be mad that Al Franken is resigning. Be mad that Franken is a groper and his behavior led to this ouster in the first place. If he didn’t grope women we wouldn’t be having this conversation. He wouldn’t have to resign. This is women’s real lives and trauma at stake. We can’t have a just society if we allow leaders who harm women with impunity to stay in power.

"Al Franken can be replaced. Al Franken will be replaced. Al Franken should be replaced. We can have a progressive take his place who ISN’T a sexually abusing hypocrite. Isn’t that better?"


**************

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/12/7/1721943/-I-m-ashamed-that-so-many-liberals-decry-holding-sexual-harassers-like-Al-Franken-accountable

[Kimchijeon]

1. Nope. No amount of lies you tell yourself

To justify this will make it OK. This is fascism, and no - it's not better.

Also, being a good, enthusiastic hugger is something to celebrate. Franken is guilty of nothing as far as I am concerned, and an investigation would have shown that.

[msongs]

2. a hearing was scheduled to hold franken accountable. progressives cancelled it . nt

[diva77]

3. something is definitely not above board here

[ck4829]

4. I'm mad at nearly everybody

I'm mad at Franken for groping. I don't doubt he did it.

I'm mad at the leadership - They wouldn't have pushed for this if Dayton was a Republican.

I'm mad at Republicans as they stand by Trump and Moore.

I'm mad that the photographer of the Tweeden photo, and pretty sure it's not Franken's brother, is going to get away with this instead of being treated like an accessory to the harassment.

I'm mad at people who tell us we need to "take the high road" when it has zero returns.

And I'm mad FOR the people of Minnesota, this is THEIR seat, not Franken's, certainly not Norm Coleman's, and the unjust history associated with this seat since Wellstone's death continues.

A pox on both sides of the aisle.

[flamingdem]

7. How do you feel about being ripped off to the tune of 1.5 trillion with the tax scam

vs Franken supposedly groping someone?

Don't you think the groping issue is a bit out of hand as in that it's sinking our party?

[ck4829]

19. The latter is far worse

I'm disappointed is all... in everybody from the top down. They have failed their constituents.

[brush]

51. What you should be mad at is that Franken didn't get the investigation he asked for.

You know, due process.

You don't know at all that he did any of those things he was accused of and neither do I.

[Fullduplexxx]

21. Love how youre sure he did it with zero proof

[Duppers]

43. Exactly!

There is NOT enough evidence and Al asked for an investigation.
😟

I stopped reading any post when a poster states that they think Al did it. Where's the proof?

[flamingdem]

5. Here's another idiot who can't think beyond their pet issue

They people need to shut up, they got what they wanted after all, the destruction of the party, and in the end how many are Russian bots? The US public and apparently many senators are so, so gullible about what matters.

Trillions from our pockets to the rich vs Franken squeezed someone's waist.

Can these people writing this garbage be real? Why is Kos publishing it?

[kcr]

9. Seriously. Do they realize how they come across?

Oh, they're just so ashamed of the rest of us maybe we should rethink our position! Wait, no. They're pompous asses who are way too full of themselves and need to get a grip.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

12. Sexual harassment is a pet issue?

What the fuck has happened to this site?

[flamingdem]

13. Compared to losing our democracy, tax scam rip off trillions

Yes, it's not as important

[Dr Hobbitstein]

20. Wow. No wonder the feminists left this site en masse. nt

[Dr Hobbitstein]

26. Disgusting.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

35. Also, disgusting. nt

[Egnever]

24. I wouldn't go that far

It is hugely important. But so is due process and this which hunt has shit all over that.

[gollygee]

29. Holy crap.

The expectation that women be treated like human beings is not a pet issue ffs.

[LanternWaste]

39. No... it's vastly more important as it directly involves 51% of humans.

It must seem inconvenient that sexual assault and harassment predates both democracy and tax scams.

No... it's vastly more important as it directly involves 51% of humans for tens of thousands of years.

[crazycatlady]

50. Exactly

It seems like groping is okay if you're a Democratic senator.

[brush]

52. Due process and actual proof are what's important. Franken was forced out before that happened

Other Democrats did that to one their own.

They were so impatient that they couldn't at least see their way to actually be sure of the accusations, many of which were anonymous and none that offer actual proof.

[crazycatlady]

56. When women step forward,it is often a game of he said/she said

And their reputation will be tarnished as a result (because 90% of the time, men have the upper hand). By staying anonymous, it saves her reputation from being tarnished.

Groping has consequences. Al Franken confessed. There's no reason not to believe the women when there's a confession.

[brush]

60. Guess you didn't watch his speech. He made it clear that he didn't confess.

You seem to not want an investigation held. Why not?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

41. WTF is this shit right here.

[kcr]

6. Oh, phew. This shamey Kos member feels better. Everyone can relax now.

All is well and right with his/her world.

[eleny]

8. Liberals only asked for due process. I won't trust those who have a problem with that.

[dansolo]

16. Authoritarians aren't always conservatives

Some so-called progressives seem to feel like they should be able to dictate how things are done as long as it aligns with their particular beliefs.

[eleny]

22. Which has nothing to do with the issue at hand

[KitSileya]

10. This was just alerted on, for bashing Democratic figures

ANd I just want to say, for fuck's sake - if you are willing to condone sexual harassment because it's been done by someone on your side, you're not ever going to be on my side. Condoning this is what we're lambasting the voters of Alabama for doing with regards to Moore, and it sickens me how many are willing to do it as long as the politicians have a D after their name. Disgusting!

[dansolo]

28. It hasn't been established that there was any sexual harassment

There have been accusations, most of which strain credibility.

[Fullduplexxx]

30. Is there any proof that al did what he is accused of... or do we just take the word

Of hannity's friend

[BannonsLiver]

34. Such a BS argument

Nobody is condoning what Franken is alleged to have done. What they are pushing back against is the lack of due process, and the fact people like you equate what he did with actual rape. If you thinking pinching an ass at a county fair is analogous to rape, forcible sodomy, or any other non-consensual sex act, you're not thinking logically at all. Ask yourself this: How would our legal system treat Franken vs. someone who actually raped someone? But in your world they are apparently the same. It's ridiculous.

But hey, just keep pushing. We'll see how women are treated as Republicans maintain majorities in 2018 and Trump wins re-election in 2020. If laying down like lambs is the best we can do, we are fucked.

[peggysue2]

45. This is exactly right

No one is condoning what Franken is alleged of doing. But even if we decide he's guilty of every accusation, his behavior is boorish and sophomoric in comparison to the alleged crimes of sexual assault, something on which both Trump and Moore have been accused.

There is a difference.

Insisting on lumping everything under one banner is ludicrous. We don't do that with other behaviors. Under our criminal system we have misdemeanors as opposed to felonies, which determine the level/seriousness of the offense and its corresponding penalty.

This whole sorry affair plays right into Republican hands. I'm sure Roger Stone and his friends are rolling on the floor and can't wait to select the next Dam for their time in the barrel.

[NurseJackie]

46. Thank you. Common sense isn't so common any more...

... sadly.

[Irish_Dem]

40. I agree with you Kit. nt

[USALiberal]

42. Another poster who does not understand the whole point! nt

[brush]

53. Two words for you. "Due Process". Ever heard of it?

[Willie Pep]

11. I have never agreed with trial by media.

There are way too many examples from past history where lives were ruined by trial by media. Everyone should watch the 1995 HBO film Indictment: The McMartin Trial based on the real story of the McMartin Preschool trial where a number of people (including women) were falsely accused of the Satanic sex abuse of children.

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/10/us/the-trial-that-unleashed-hysteria-over-child-abuse.html

Now certainly some accusations are stronger than others and there seems to be way more evidence against Trump and Moore than against Franken so that is significant here. But ultimately there needs to be formal procedures for dealing with harassment claims to make sure innocent people aren't hurt along with the guilty. That is why I supported an ethics investigation of Franken. That is a good way to balance the interests of the accused and the accusers. But media lynch mobs are not acceptable and frankly they are not in keeping with liberal values in my opinion.

[libtodeath]

14. Fuck that noise,some dollar an accusation unknown accusers can say anything and it is fact?

Having that seat maybe flip in its next election really will help women.

[Vinca]

15. Guilty and sentenced before the trial.

[Egnever]

17. Yea fuck due process!

fucking hypocrites! We are pure!

[Hekate]

18. The odor of barnyard byproducts prevails-- a great Senator was tried in the media

[serbbral]

25. I feel this article

Finally, someone who sees what I see.

[BannonsLiver]

27. The Kos writer is a world-class dolt who has no concept of the reality we are facing.

[Fullduplexxx]

31. "Franken will be replaced " until the right says boo and the dem party shts itself and

Tosses them out

[bagelsforbreakfast]

32. I"m ashamed of that writer!

[Vinnie From Indy]

36. The person coming next can also be removed

if there are allegations of sexual harassment. Where does it end?

[alarimer]

37. There is zero proof he did anything.

The first accuser has pretty much been discredited. Most of the rest are anonymous (to us at least), so how can anyone know for sure? In any case, this is not equivalent to Moore or Trump at all, so why should he be punished more severely? Obviously, the Republicans care a lot less than we do about this.

Yes, Al Franken will be replaced. First by a relative unknown with no real ambition to keep the seat. She's a placeholder for...someone, I have no idea who. And is likely never to question the status quo the way Franken did. Or be anywhere near as effective. So the Democrats have lost that, at least, in the Senate.

[Nevernose]

38. This person clearly hasnt read the allegations

“He put his hand around my waist in a nonsexual way while posing for a picture.”

“Al Franken kissed me on the cheek when he greeted me on stage.”

“Al Franken once did NOT kiss me at his radio station, then quoted Trump’s Access Hollywood tape.”

“This is a picture of me being groped,” Then shows a picture of her NOT being groped.

“My scripted lines during a USO show performed dozens of times over several years were ABOUT sexual harassment, therefore I was sexually harassed.”

“He put his arm around my waist during a photo op, but his hand ended up on the top of my butt.”

“He touched the side of my boob while we posed for a picture. It might have been accidental, but I don’t think so.”

None of that is my opinion. All of that is contained within the “allegations.” For God’s sake, “He DIDN’T kiss me” is being used as proof that he’s a serial groper.

Meanwhile, Democrats like Ruben Kihuen are ACTUALLY prowling their own employees and the Democratic Party does SHIT.

[Duppers]

44. Proof??

You posted this because you agree?

🐦

[Meowmee]

47. Im alarmed

At how many liberals are willing to decry, do harm and convict on unproven accusations with no due process.

[maryellen99]

48. That place wants to find common ground with the deplorables such as racists and misogynists

No thank you.

[snort]

49. Yeah, I commented in that thread.

Pfaw

[riverwalker]

54. Mass hysteria

A hand on your butt during a photo. In public. Bright lights. Crowds of people. Who in their right mind would feel assaulted from that? I’m a woman, consider myself a feminist, have lived a long long time. This is ridiculous. People act like he whipped out his dick, or raped someone, for crying out loud. What is wrong with people?

[ananda]

55. This proud liberal does not decry holding any sexual predator accountable.

There is NO evidence that Al Franken was or is a sexual predator. There IS
evidence that he was targeted by Roger Stone and Leanne Tweeden. There
has been NO investigation either.

There IS, however, plenty of evidence that 45 is and was a sexual predator.
This is already PROVEN!!!!

[BlueStater]

57. What a ridiculous post.

And it's appalling that so many people on that site agree with it. Last time I checked, it was never proven that Franken did ANYTHING wrong yet the author is speaking like she knows for a fact that he's a predator. Accusations alone don't make something reality.

[TheFrenchRazor]

58. can't really disagree. nt

[tonedevil]

59. I'm ashamed of liberals...

that lack an understanding of due process.

[onecaliberal]

61. Im sick of Democrats insisting other Dems step down but have nothing to say that

A pussy grabber who literally sold the fucking country to Russia gets a pass from those same dems.