we should just give up

[Fresh_Start]

because any effort to improve is going to require someone/somewhere to make a sacrifice or give up something they believe is their right.

We can't stop pollution because that would impair someone's right to make the most of their resources
We can't stop killing off species because that would impair property rights
We can't improve education because that interferes with parents rights and religious beliefs
We can't have stem cell research because thats against someone's religious beliefs
We can't have gender equality because thats against someone's religious beliefs
We can't have gay+ rights because thats against someone's religious beliefs


If the supposedly reasonable people who come to DU, can't understand the basic tradeoffs of some individual choices for the common good. The rest of the country is hopeless.

[quinnox]

1. if people actually swallowed the stupid "give up" argument

nothing would ever change for the good in human society, and we would still be owning slaves and treating women as personal property.

[Fresh_Start]

2. I'm hoping that people realize that, too

but there are a lot of people here on DU saying give up on gun control

[quinnox]

3. yep, there are always those who think things can't change

and they are always proven wrong when looking at human history.

[villager]

4. well, the idea of someday not being able to horde their prized fetish objects..

...as easily as they can now, deeply terrifies and unsettles them. I'm sure they'd love good people to stop fighting for reasonable gun laws.

[Egalitarian Thug]

5. K&R. That about sums it up.

We can plug any problem into the formula and at the bottom of it all, what stands in the way of a solution is maintaining someone's (usually the rich) gravy train.

[Curmudgeoness]

6. I couldn't help but notice, religion

seems to be the major problem here. Religious rights seem to trump everything else.

Instead of giving up, I say we ban religion. That should take most of the problems out of the equation.

[Fresh_Start]

7. just like guns, religious freedom is a right

and actually I think religion is impossible to control.
Religious beliefs predated technology, they probably predated society.

I do think that there is a common root for both guns and religion is dealing with fear of the unknown or uncontrollable

[Shankapotomus]

8. The positive side to that is

there are people on the Right who probably feel the same way and so maybe they would be open to a peaceful separation. I think if we approach this rationally we could agree to some sort of formal division of the nation into a left and a right.

[Fresh_Start]

9. we can't find them and they can't find us

we are all living in our political ghetto's of our own choosing.

I keep thinking we'd all be better served, if our government was like a jury...you get called and you must serve for your blessedly short period of time, and then you go home.

I'd much rather have any of my neighbors deciding the law, then the professional politician

[The Doctor.]

10. What is your point?

Those are all obviously stupid notions.

Does anyone on DU think any of those (or anything like them) are good ideas?

[Fresh_Start]

11. there seem to be a lot of people on DU saying give up

on gun control....so yes there are people on DU who do think like that (when it comes to their own pet issue)

[The Doctor.]

12. I haven't seen anyone saying that we should not have laws regulating gun traffic and ownership.

So are you lying, or do you have examples?

Simple quotes w/o names would be fine.

[DCKit]

13. As much as I'd like to join the cause, I'm addicted to DU.

We need a group for that.

[eliminerlesud]

14. No need to give up, we need to stop pandering to the idiots

mainly in the states that well we all know where they are located and how they are the source of the majority of America's problems since its inception.

The few are holding back the many Just give the regressive’s a section of the country, cut them lose and the rest of us can more on.

If we continue to pander to them then you are correct it is pointless to do anything.