I guess it is against Forum rules

[Motownman78]

to point out hypocrisy on our side huh?

[bathroommonkey76]

1. Which side are you talking about?

[PatrickforO]

7. I think he's talking about the 38 senators who folded like cheap lawn chairs

because they were afraid supporting Franken in his time of need, when he was clearly being smeared in a right-wing hit job, would cause them to become targets of Republican mudslinging.

I think he's wondering, as I do, what these people actually do stand for. What is their vision? And please don't refer me to their websites. What someone DOES is far more telling than what they say. And I must look at this 'zero tolerance' (zero common sense) witch hunt of Al Franken as a stark betrayal of what I consider basic morality and common decency.

I'm really, really mad about this, and the people I'm talking to here in my state are feeling pretty bad about it too. There's some serious blowback for these people from the base.

I mean, how can we possibly win elections if we don't stand for something and then stick by that even if the going gets tough. Swaying in the political wind does NOT earn votes. It does NOT win elections. I remind you that 41% of voters are independents, and that of the 80 million strong millennial generation, about 70% believe we need a third party. The failure of our party's leadership to set the vision for the future and then have the courage to stand by that vision isn't earning any votes from any of these people.

Yes, Dems are better than Republicans. But you know what? I'm so appalled right now at these Senators, and at Tom Perez, that I could spit nails. No guts.

You know who DOES have guts, and DOES deserve respect? The 58 Democratic Representatives, including members of the Black Caucus, who voted FOR the articles of impeachment while ignoring Pelosi and Hoyer telling them 'now isn't the time.'

Because if not now, what IS the time?

Al Franken was a strong voice, a needed voice, a voice that actually cared about his constituents. Story after story, he went all out for them. A genuinely good man. Then an attempt by the right wing to smear him, instead of earning a vigorous 'fuck you' from the Democratic leadership and the party rank and file instead results in the very people we trust and look to for leadership jettisoning all common sense and common decency and railroading him out of office.

I think that might be what he's talking about. Because where were ANY of these 38 voices, and HOW OFTEN were any of these 38 voices heard demanding Roy Moore step down from his race in Alabama, or that Trump step down as president because of the FAR MORE numerous and FAR MORE credible allegations against them. Trump's on video, for God's sake, saying he can just grab women by their genitalia anytime he wants. How is it these same 'zero tolerance' people aren't pounding on that at least once a day?

Instead we have to be quiet. We have to be quiet because if we rock the boat it might hurt our fight against the tax scam. If we rock the boat, it might bog us down so we blah, blah, blah. People want vision. They want the people they vote for to set that vision, to be decent, to stand for something.

And bathroommonkey, this ain't it.

[bathroommonkey76]

8. Wow, PatrickforO!

I feel you, dude.

Ever since the news broke about Franken I knew it was a smear job - it's very sad to see Dem members of the senate gang up on Al w/o an ethics investigation. I'll leave it at that for now. Crown Royal is calling me to my back deck for some caged squirrel fighting. Peace.

[Break time]

10. no matter what

we are fucked from both sides anymore

[snort]

13. Totally, fellow Patrick,

totally.

[Luciferous]

14. Well said!

[GP6971]

2. What's the context?

Please explain.

[TDale313]

3. No trashing Dems.

Constructive criticism is considered ok. It can be subjective and a pretty fine line.

[questionseverything]

4. yep..this isn't a free speech zone

it is a money making enterprise

[Chasstev365]

5. Nope; only if somene doesn't like you or care for your views!

Otherwise it's allowed!

[GulfCoast66]

9. You just killed this thread

Maybe! But my experience tells me that when a thread based on raw emotion is interrupted by a factual driven non attacking thread based on calling out different standards, the thread dies.

But in these charged times I will probably be wrong.

Regardless, nice post.

[Kaleva]

11. Politics is not the same as the legal system.

Sure, Moore has every right to face his accusers in court an ought to be considered innocent until proven guilty but that's not how it works in politics. Out political system would collapse if every charge one candidate made against another had to be fought out in court.

[BlueWI]

12. Partisan interpretations are definitely part of this issue

and so is glib equivalency. Here's the partisan part for me. Roy Moore is a Republican from a state that remains avowedly segregationist in many respects, who is perpetuating the long damaging conflicts over race that have caused civil wars and lingering genocide in this country. I believe in equal rights too, but if credible accusations of statutory rape can derail Roy Moore's campaign, and elect a senator, Doug Jones, that brought KKK child killers to justice and prevent at least a part of Trump's agenda from becoming law, I would call that a fair bargain. I have a limited say because I am not from Alabama and not Republican, and I have no expectation that the Republican Party will put aside political expediency and call for his resignation.

On the other hand, Al Franken has been a very reliable progressive vote from a reliably Democratic state whose delegation generally doesn't vote in favor of Iraqi War resolutions and Wall Street deregulation; Franken and his colleagues tend to fight hard even when they are outnumbered, as Franken did against Jeff Sessions, another segregationist and enabler of Trump's policies. So, when Franken was confronted with charges of sexual misconduct of uncertain veracity, I would assume that his political party would not deny him due process. I am clearly partisan in the way I frame the two sets of charges, and I had the simple hope that other Democrats would treat their own senator with fairness. Roy Moore has plenty of defenders in his party; no one in the Democratic Party really stood up for Al Franken, at least not the Dems in the Senate.

If we're more concerned about appearing hypocritical than we are about allowing due process for a popular and duly elected senator from a blue state, nothing I say will matter anyway. I have written as much to Tammy Baldwin, my home state senator. I can't see that my letter to her or these words to you will help address this hot mess we've made of this party, but what else can be done?