General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsA Thought Occurred To Me About The Franken Fiasco.
The current upswell of recognition and concern over the issue of sexual harassment started with the exposure of powerful men who were using their positions to access women for sexual abuse and then intimidate them into keeping quiet about it.
The #MeToo has moved beyond those first revelations about famous men to encourage women to open up about the persistance of sexual harassment/abuse/ assault in everyday life.
This is clearly to the good, because it stinks that one half of the human race has to go around living in fear of the other half of the human race.
We are acknowledging that it is not just famous men who make women's lives difficult by meting out such treatment. But fame and power extend a man's reach to do greater harm by putting him beyond the reach of consequences.
Enter Al Franken. This is not a man who used his power and position to seek out victims for his personal satisfaction and then furthered the use of his power to keep his victims quiet.
Franken's power did not intimidate women into suffering through unwanted sexual behavior and remaining silent out of fear of retaliation should their stories not be believed.
These women weren't freed from humilation and fear by the #MeToo movement to come forth and reclaim their personal power. Franken's power was never a threat to them, it was a threat to the people who already have power. Those individuals have no desire to give up what they have. And until Franken became a threat to them, there was no roll call of violated, demeaned, or offended women whispering in support networks, waiting for the day when Franken could be exposed without risking their careers or reputations.
The power being exercised here is not about victims finding their voice. It is about finding "victims" of minor gaffes or misunderstandings and tweaking their narratives to silence Franken's voice and growing political power.
If Al Franken had never become a Senator--if he had continued in his career as an entertainer, it is very unlikely that these women would have bothered to include their experiences with him in the chronicles of #MeToo declarations.
Franken's power made him a target; he did not use his power to target others.
Franken's actions fall into the spectrum of social improprieties if intentional and extend into the realm of misunderstandings that occur between people all the time.
Unfortunately for those who look toward a progressive future, there are people who understand very well how to take advantage of a misunderstanding to bring down a powerful person.
agincourt
(1,996 posts)you hit it.
Collimator
(1,639 posts)But as verbose as I was, I don't think that I really clarified my point. (Possibly because of the lateness of the hour.)
Weinstein's (and the others') power protected him from accusers. But Franken's power exposed him to accusers. Does that make sense? Right now, I'm too tired to tell.
RestoreAmerica2020
(3,435 posts)...something that is used to intimidate, oppress which does not describe Franken. I agree, he was targeted because he had power, not because he used his power. He's one of the good guys... I sincerly hope he does not resign. Thanks for your post!
RandomAccess
(5,210 posts)This sentence stuck out for me: Franken's power was never a threat to them, it was a threat to the people who already have power.
Followed by this:
The power being exercised here is not about victims finding their voice. It is about finding "victims" of minor gaffes or misunderstandings and tweaking their narratives to silence Franken's voice and growing political power.
Makes the point brilliantly, IMO --
And welcome to DU!
TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)consider their incidental contact with him in the past as an assault.
Also, all Democratic opposition now knows that it only takes 6 or 8 people to allege to have been brushed up against a Dem pol to panic the Dem party who will then...
[img][/img]
Kablooie
(18,623 posts)So they eliminated him before he could become a threat to their power.
This is what it felt like to me.
If so it could be the the death knell of the Democratic party because anyone who is strong and competent will be destroyed leaving only the mediocre and incompetent to fill the ranks of the party.
green917
(442 posts)I think this whole thing was a right wing hit job that kristen Gil8brand jumped on because she wants to run for president and this "scandal" gave her the opportunity to remove her greatest possible democratic challenger without having to actually beat him in a primary. I think this whole fiasco should tell all of us that out democracy is well and truly fucked!
Guilded Lilly
(5,591 posts)Kirk Lover
(3,608 posts)Kablooie
(18,623 posts)But canning such a competent Senator in such a quick and dramatic way raises questions.
Kirk Lover
(3,608 posts)the next accusation that came forward was going to be the straw that broke the camels back...and that is what happened.
betsuni
(25,447 posts)I've said before that Franken's the victim and was scolded, but he is. Obviously.
KT2000
(20,572 posts)and spot on regarding the use of power. I always get back to the point of intention. Does anyone think Franken's intention was to assault a woman?
As these incidents will be used to bring someone down, the real effort to stop sexual harassment of women will eventually fade and the real abusers will keep doing it.
parkia00
(572 posts)It seems the Democrats right now do not have a clear leader which all factions can look to and support to eventually become a contender for the next Presidential elections. So any Democrat that starts to have a growing influence will be targeted by the other side through false news and suggestive allegations and that, is all it seems to take for us to turn on one of our own and take that leader down. When that leader is burdened by such "scandals" that make them unsuitable for candidate for the top office, they will turn on the next leader with growing influence. And the same idiots spineless Democrats will take him/her down as well.
lostnfound
(16,169 posts)Politicians, professors, journalists perhaps.
susanna
(5,231 posts)Your take is insightful and important.
bluestateboomer
(505 posts)scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)onetexan
(13,033 posts)Demit
(11,238 posts)It never fit in right with the other examples of abusive men that came to light.
This part of what you wrote describes very well what has always bothered me
"...there was no roll call of violated, demeaned, or offended women whispering in support networks, waiting for the day when Franken could be exposed without risking their careers or reputations.
The power being exercised here is not about victims finding their voice. It is about finding "victims" of minor gaffes or misunderstandings and tweaking their narratives..."
Minor incidents, from long ago, descriptions of which sounded tweaked; half of the purported victims that, when found, being kept anonymous, yet hailed as "brave;" the insistence that the only remedy to this long ago alleged behavior was the draconian ending of a career...it all felt manufactured. What scares me is the part the Democrats played in it.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)Franken was elected by many people. If you are going to override the will of the people, at least give the guy a hearing like he asked.
Demit
(11,238 posts)A major misstep by the Democrats. It will not get them anything. Who do they think will admire what they did? Not Republican voters. The Republican mindset is authoritarian; it values strong leadership but it also values loyalty. I don't know what else Kirsten Gillebrand has in mind to further polish her brand but her ease also the ease of the Democrats as a partyin being disloyal won't appeal to authoritarians at all. I'm a female, feminist, dyed-in-the-wool Democrat and it sickens me.
And your point is a good one: the way the Democrats handled this, as if it was their decision only, was too high-handed, too autocratic. It was, simply, anti-democratic.
barbtries
(28,787 posts)he's not like the others yet was treated as badly or worse.
Pacifist Patriot
(24,653 posts)Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)anonymous ones are just laughable.
CommonHumanity
(246 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)Once they are in power, they hang onto it, no matter who says what.
mythology
(9,527 posts)He at least gave Tweeden the impression he wrote a skit just to kiss her, he told another woman that he's an entertainer so he gets to do this, but more than that you don't seem to get that sexual harassment isn't always about making a threat any more than a rapist needs to have a knife in order to rape somebody.
Feeling as though you have the right to put your hands on somebody is in fact establishing that you have power over somebody. That you have the right to touch them without their consent. Taking that moment to touch somebody where they don't want to be touched, is in fact a display of power.
Ligyron
(7,624 posts)However, I don't see them applying to Franken.
BlueWI
(1,736 posts)Last edited Sun Dec 10, 2017, 08:30 PM - Edit history (1)
You're summarizing heresay, some of it purposefully framed by right wing sources that support and deny sexism. One of the most outrageous elements of this episode is the interruption of fact finding in a rush to judgement, which is exactly what your statement does.
questionseverything
(9,646 posts)dansolo
(5,376 posts)You are repeating questionable allegations as if they are established facts.
flamingdem
(39,312 posts)I believe they are realizing now the dust has cleared
Different Drummer
(7,612 posts)Fluke a Snooker
(404 posts)With Jones, we control the senate, as Collins and Murkowski will flip, giving us 51-49 until we retake next year in 2018. This is worth the sacrifices we make with Franken, Conyers, and others, because we can replace them all with even stronger, younger progressives, which in itself is a net win for us, because then the replacements will have the power of incumbancy.
But with a Jones victory in Alabama, we absolutely stop Trump dead in his tracks until we impeach him in 2019, and indict him in 2021 with a President Kamala Harris-run DOJ, along with his entire family.
THIS IS WHAT IS AT STAKE. And don't worry about Al Franken, as his career as a political pundit will be rich and full.
BlueWI
(1,736 posts)disenfranchising those who supported and voted for him, under the shadow of Trump, shouldn't be a concern.
I disagree completely.
Fluke a Snooker
(404 posts)In Alabama, if we show that the Democratic Party is serious about maintaining high standards for our own progressive officials, then the voters will realize that they should be voting for the party of integrity over the party of the pedophile. And keep in mind that Franken will no be replaced by a crazed Republican, but by a dynamic progressive individual whom will have an even bigger progressive impact on the Senate.
Long game, folks. We need to transform the United States from a hyper-nationalist white privileged cesspool into a functional component of the globalist progressive agenda. This is the entire goal of our Democratic Party, and should be our ONLY focus.
dansolo
(5,376 posts)Apparently you are more concerned about the narrative, than whether it is true or not.
Fluke a Snooker
(404 posts)And the truth is that capitalist, white supremacist ideology, conflated with Western Civilization and the principles of the oppressive nature of the United States construct vis a vis a flawed Constitution, should be shitcanned as soon as possible so we can get a true globalist, progressive agenda that relies more on human need, not corporate greed.
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)Lynching Franken will have no effect on tomorrow's election in Alabama, nor Trump's staying in office. Thomas will remain on the Supreme Court regardless of disenfranchising Minnesota voters.
If Trump leaves office it will be because of money laundering, collusion with Russia and violating the Constitution, not his sexual misconduct.
BlueWI
(1,736 posts)Neither was done in this case.
Plus - at this point, the election cycle for the Minnesota senate seat has been moved up by two years. Hopefully the dynamic new progressive is ready to run and win a statewide race in a now-purple state.
I understand the reasoning and strongly disagree with the way it was done. There were other options such as censure that were left off the table. The optics of the resignation were highly unfortunate. We're not just moving pieces on a chessboard, there are flesh and blood people, relationships, and voters that all have a stake in the process.
Don't need lectures on what the focus should be. We are all capable of critically and strategically thinking. The Democratic voters that are aggrieved and disenfranchised by this abrupt and rash process need to be heard.
Fluke a Snooker
(404 posts)The fact is far more people are hurt with the status quo of the white supremacist construct in place, aka the US Constitution. More and more people are realizing that it exists to oppress non-progressive individuals, particularly those whom are not white males. As such, anything we can do to advance our agenda short of actual warfare is considered fair game.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)questionseverything
(9,646 posts)franken deserved the investigation,still does
harris has shown she does not have the judgement to be a senator not alone pres
frankin had the nerve and guts to demand the votes be counted to win his seat,took 8 months
for you to act like some other nameless dem will be that tough is foolish
George Eliot
(701 posts)Republicans just don't think that way. Can't you tell that? They circles the wagons for their own. They lie, cheat, steal and win and as long as they win, their constituents are fine with it. My opinion and we'll see.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)You kick out Franken and all of the sudden Alabama will elect Jones? In what Universe?
Mme. Defarge
(8,025 posts)that the ends justify the means? Vraiment?
Fluke a Snooker
(404 posts)Voting is on process of progressive transformation. We must avail all our tools, including past the point where the tools are necessary anymore.
Mme. Defarge
(8,025 posts)But truly ethical and fair to all stakeholders?
Fluke a Snooker
(404 posts)At least it's not SUPPOSED to be.
A progressive movement depends on the majority vote of its citizenry. And if a majority of citizens want a progressive, non-GOP-blasted agenda, then that's the way we go. Legal, ethical, and morally complicit in its beauty.
Demit
(11,238 posts)Fluke a Snooker
(404 posts)Still, the vast majority of the world is vested in a progressive United States. Billions will die, as well as the planet, if the GOP keeps its course. And the Jones/Moore senate race is pivotal in this ultimate dire strait. The narrative that Franken's exodus has caused will help Jones over the finish line. This is an INTEGRATED, not SEGREGATED, issue. Big picture, please.
Demit
(11,238 posts)But in our more immediate timeline, I very much doubt a cause/effect relationship between throwing out Al Franken and electing Doug Jones.
Fluke a Snooker
(404 posts)blm
(113,039 posts)Spot on.
Binkie The Clown
(7,911 posts)Amaryllis
(9,524 posts)leftstreet
(36,103 posts)well said
Mme. Defarge
(8,025 posts)for your brilliant contribution to the conversation.
erinlough
(2,176 posts)As a rape survivor I am bothered that unwanted kissing and poor, and tasteless jokes are equated with forcable rape. I can agree with Conyers removal as he threatened woman and hurt their careers, but Franklin....I just dont see it. As women we need to be very precise about what we allege and what we want from all this.
When I was 18 and was raped I thought it was my own fault for being in the wrong place. I never called it rape or told anyone. I very much relate to Moores victims when I listen to them because they are telling my story. Frankens accusers dont ring true and I wish I could see their situation as serious, but I dont.