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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forumsdalton99a
(81,451 posts)Before any investigation
greeny2323
(590 posts)And it accomplished NOTHING!
keithbvadu2
(36,775 posts)Au contraire! It accomplished a great deal.
It got rid of an effective Congressman.
Crunchy Frog
(26,579 posts)It eliminated one of our most effective voices in the Senate. It set us up to possibly/probably lose a seat to the R's next year that otherwise would have been safe until 2022. Worst of all, it reinforces the image of our party as weak, disunited, and disloyal to even its own.
Also demoralized a whole lot of Democrats.
dalton99a
(81,451 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)PatrickforO
(14,570 posts)How the hell are we going to win elections if we don't stand for common decency and morality.
Paladin
(28,252 posts)PatSeg
(47,399 posts)There will be a political price for this major fuckup.
treestar
(82,383 posts)the PGIC and Moore and others outside hanging around safe.
mountain grammy
(26,619 posts)brooklynite
(94,502 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)falling in a bloody pile.
n2doc
(47,953 posts)dalton99a
(81,451 posts)It was a freakin' lynch mob
kcr
(15,315 posts)and snear "Why are you hitting yourself! Why are you hitting yourself! Nyah nyah!" This latest twist in the knife, declaring it's his own fault because he's choosing to leave is just beyond the pale.
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)Stop spreading lies. He announced that he would be resigning, not that he had resigned.
brooklynite
(94,502 posts)"...but that doesn't mean she won't decide to in the future".
I don't dream; I deal with politics as it occurs in the real world. He'll stay to vote on the tax bill and (if necessary) to not eof seating Roy Moore. And then he'll leave.
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)Your posts generally take the form that he is already packed up his office and that shows he is guilty. As one of the most vocal cheerleaders for Franken's head, it is nice to see that you can admit that you have been wrong about some of what you post.
brooklynite
(94,502 posts)http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/27/politics/al-franken-sexual-harassment-analysis/index.html
But, yes, when a politician say's they're going to leave, I take them at their word...because they always do.
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)And stop with the lies, he has denied the charges, albeit in a way that may be too subtle for you to understand. He has apologized IF Tweeden felt offended. The classical non-apology apology, but that doesn't fit your narrative, does it. So you lie about, over and over.
brooklynite
(94,502 posts)What you said.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)Al said
"Some of the allegations against me simply are not true".
If you are keeping score, Al has denied EVERYTHING except the Tweeden photo. The kiss, the group, the "it's my right as a celebrity", the ass grab, and the boob grab, and no one understands what the fuck is up with the waist story. That is just bizarre.
I'm going to call out this bullshit as the bullshit it is.
He DENIES almost ALL of it. He does not deny a cheesy picture hamming it up for the camera on a USO tour and said he used bad judgment.
Your argument fails, and fails again, and then it fails some more. So either get some new material or be honest. All he admitted to was the photo.
brooklynite
(94,502 posts)Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)That was on regard to Tweeden's photo. He has denied everything else.
Denzil_DC
(7,232 posts)You didn't respond when I re-posted this yesterday in response to the same old claim from you, so here it is yet again (originally written when this place was up in arms about Tweeden):
Al Franken wrote a bill to help rape survivors like me. He cant lead on it now.
In November 2014, I was raped.
Im certainly not the only one something this awful has happened to, but afterward, I felt as though I was. I was a 19-year-old college student. My life changed overnight. I faced an incredibly long fight to bring my attacker to justice: Daniel Drill-Mellum was wealthy, well-connected, and willing to throw me and my reputation under the bus. The #MeToo culture Ive seen develop publicly over the last month wasnt around to help me then. I was nearly harassed off the University of Minnesota campus for reporting. I was turned away by the Minneapolis Police Department despite the mountain of evidence in my case.
Over the next two years, I learned how to hold my frustration in, because I had an end goal in mind. I knew that my attacker belonged in prison, and I was determined to get the justice system on my side. I made mental notes about everything that was going wrong. I tried to have patience that someday I could make a different world. When my rapist was sentenced in August 2016 to six years in prison, I finally had my chance.
I sought help from Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.). He took up my cause without hesitation, and he worked with his aides to draft legislation to pay for training to help police departments treat assault survivors with more concern for what weve been through. But now that allegations have come out that Franken himself assaulted a woman years ago, I want another lawmaker to sponsor the bill we worked so hard on. This work deserves to be led by those without a history of sexual harassment or assault.
The news this week was especially disappointing for me because of how effective an advocate Franken has been for my cause. I felt my heart sink when I saw the news, but I was prepared to support the woman involved. I remember what it was like to be shamed and not believed.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/11/18/al-franken-wrote-a-bill-to-help-rape-survivors-like-me-he-cant-lead-on-it-now/
If anybody wants to click through, they'll see the sort of work Franken's been involved in, and how sensitively he and his staff have handled the process of helping this woman frame the bill. She now wants to find a female congressperson to sponsor it instead.
I hope it's an overreaction to the early forms of this story, and she may revise her decision. Or perhaps it would be better if she can find a female senator to sponsor it, and Franken can offer whatever support is necessary, behind the scenes or from the floor. The problem with his involvement is Republican whataboutery. You'd hope a bill like this could find bipartisan agreement, but I doubt it.
It may shed some light on why Franken reacted like he did. The larger picture than his own career is the legislation he wants to pass and the changes he wants to come about - exactly as set out in his long statement. That's integrity.
I don't think any number of videos or pics of Tweeden cavorting onstage are likely to make Abby Honold feel differently, certainly not if Franken were ever to have a hand in relying on them as some sort of "defense" - especially in view of her own experience of the attempts to "throw me and my reputation under the bus". Or maybe she'll realize that this is more or less what's happened to Franken as her ally and change her mind.
What probably won't help change her mind is targeting somebody who comes forward with an allegation for her past behavior, however raunchy, given what she says above. Or maybe she'll join some here in resenting Tweeden for making false allegations, but that could be a slippery slope and she may not be able or willing to go there.
These are the stakes. This whole operation hasn't just targeted Franken, it's targeted the current wave of revulsion at revelations about how (especially powerful) men sometimes conduct themselves.
That's why I think Franken's reacted as he has, and why he's right to do so.
It's just my own interpretation, but I reckon Franken doesn't want to get into the position of publicly expressing disbelief of the women making the allegations, for reasons I outline above.
Repeating your claim ad nauseam doesn't make it any more convincing.
rainin
(3,011 posts)traladeda
(48 posts)I am livid that Al was pressured to resign before the investigation. He's my Senator and I feel like my voice and my vote was robbed without due process. So that sucks. And now, on top of that, I have to hear, see, read people blaming women for this. 19 male senators and 13 female senators pressured him to resign. The party cocked-up. So why are we focusing on the females? Why is it always so easy for people to give their inner misogynist a red bull and let them out to play? (Rhetorical. We all know why. Just had to vent.)
MrsCoffee
(5,801 posts)I even saw a post here in a thread about Gillibrand that actually referenced a wiki article about rituals with women clapping their hands, stamping their feet and whipping themselves up into a frenzy.
And now we supposedly have 38 Democrats and the #metoo movement in the sights of another circular firing squad. Because no matter what, we just have to keep the cycle going.
DemocracyMouse
(2,275 posts)I've followed the Franken story on DU very keenly and noticed near unity on giving the brilliant, if imperfect, senator a fair ethics investigation. There may be a reason why DU reached this conclusion sooner that the mainstream media and its audience.
WE HAD EARLY EVIDENCE.
....That is, members of this remarkable forum scurrying about (like inspired mice?) to find contextual information. The ability of this forum to instantly summon audio/video evidence (video clips of Leann Tweeden sharing Al's goofball satire on the USO tour and her even going FAR BEYOND him in sexual assault satire), has lead to near unity. The participants of this forum have also, I've noted, been very fair about acknowledging the seriousness of the ACTUAL sexual assault problem. (As a professional in the creative forces of America, I am quite threatened by the fact that our Democratic senators don't know the differences between satire, goofball satire, i.e. vaudeville, and the real thing. I could be dragged into court for staging The Rape of the Sabine even with a narrator stating "people, this here is satire and it underscores, in point of fact, our NOT condoning rape." )
....Is there any way to translate DU's (qualified) unity into a group letter to the Senate? I suppose we could send everyone here to a third party signing site. Any recommendations?
Mmmmmphgrrrrr.
Demit
(11,238 posts)came out with successive statements seemingly in coordination calling for Franken to step down.
"While Senator Franken is entitled to have the Ethics Committee conclude its review, I believe it would be better for our country if he sent a clear message that any kind of mistreatment of women in our society isnt acceptable by stepping aside to let someone else serve," Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.), the first out with a statement, said in a message posted on Facebook.
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/363543-women-in-senate-call-for-franken-to-resign
The rest fell in line behind the women. You know, if you're in the forefront of a charge, you have to take the flak for being leaders of the charge.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)After cartoons like this:
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mn9driver
(4,423 posts)Don't remember the runup to the Iraq War and the aluminum tube lies that Condie spread that led directly to the deaths of thousands of American soldiers, hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians, and destabilized Iraq, Syria, Kuwait, Yemen and Saudi Arabia for a generation? A war that we are still fighting 15 years later?
Danziger went easy on her. My cartoon would have been much more graphic.
Denzil_DC
(7,232 posts)Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)Sums it up
mn9driver
(4,423 posts)We have handed the GOP not only a Democratic placeholder in lieu of an extremely effective and aggressive Senator, a likely Republican Senate seat in 2019 that they wouldn't otherwise have had, but we have handed them a narrative that will harm other democrats, alienate voters, and do nothing but help Republicans.
It was unbelievably bad judgement to pull out the knives on Franken based on these thin allegations with no context or investigation. It will have consequences.
Kirk Lover
(3,608 posts)Republican side of the aisle when sex. misconduct comes to light...and quite simply it's because they are all men.