My Theory: Franken Was A VERY Expensive Trial Balloon

[ProudLib72]

To see if our sacrifice would curry favor with the women's movement and, by linking to it, gain some of its impetus. The optics included two important factors: 1) A call for zero tolerance in the face of sex abuse/harassment allegations, and 2) A strong woman taking lead of the call.

If this is the case, and it was a trial balloon, I'm not sure if Gillibrand herself wasn't put in the position of possible sacrifice. We should know the fallout in a few weeks. Will everyone still hate what she did, or will everyone eventually accept it and come to realize it was the best possible decision in light of all the allegations?

[monmouth4]

1. I know I'm over her before she even started..nt

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

2. I think that "non"-trial balloon went over like a Led Zeppelin.

Hell, the Hindenburg got more air.

[ProudLib72]

5. NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

You do not get to associate the Gods of rock with this discussion. They are above this sort of petty mortal quibbling.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

20. hahahaha! okay!

[Agschmid]

3. Just a reminder... women, especially white women voted for Trump.

It’s going to take a lot more than this to “curry favor”.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fivethirtyeight.com/features/clinton-couldnt-win-over-white-women/amp/

[ProudLib72]

11. That may have been true for HRC

But when The Silence Breakers are Time Magazine's person of the year, you know you have to latch on to that sort of groundswell somehow. In other words, HRC came about six months too late. I would argue that HRC gave rise to the women's movement and it only became the force that it is today after her loss.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

19. Republican women are first and foremost Republicans

I work with a bunch of Republican women, I have even had relationships with a couple Republican women.

They don't want to be mentioned in the same sentence as anything that has a whiff of feminism and all seem very eager to stand in harsh judgement of other women who either didn't or didn't have the opportunity to make the same perfect life choices they did. They think #metoo is a great big joke.

[ProudLib72]

22. I must be missing something here

And I think it was the way I phrased it. When I said "curry favor" I wasn't speaking of getting republican women to flip parties. There are plenty of progressive women who either didn't vote or voted 3rd party. Plus, I was envisioning this as a way to link to a progressive movement that seems very dynamic and powerful. In other words, the party has been accused of elitism and not being progressive enough. Linking to the movement provides a very broad appeal and shows how we are, indeed, progressive.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

23. "progressive women" who wouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton

are not going to vote for "a tobacco industry lawyer".

Hillary Clinton had nothing so offensive in her past that should have been insurmountable to leftists, not even her blundering Iraq war stance. Gillibrand however does and god only knows what else she got up to at Davis Polk, but I am pretty sure we're going to find out.

[ProudLib72]

24. Which is part of the reason why

I thought she could be a sacrifice, too. A lot of senators called for Franken's resignation. My point is that Gillibrand headed up the call for a reason. But I think you are correct. She will come under the spotlight next, and there will be some nasty secrets revealed.

[octoberlib]

46. I had plenty of issues with

Gillibrand pre-Franken. She ran for the the House as a “progressive Democrat” then proceeded to vote with the Republicans most of the time. It got to the point where Nancy Pelosi and other Democrats had so much antipathy toward her it was thought they’d try to block her Senate run. Gillirbrand sponsored one of the worst , most xenophobic anti-immigrant bills in the House and had an A rating with the NRA. Well now that she has her eye on the Presidency she’s a progressive again. I’ll never trust her.

[ProudLib72]

47. I'm learning more about her every day

As I'm sure everyone else around the country is. Like I said, it's her time in the spotlight. One moralistic hit job does not make up for the other things.

[jrthin]

14. Yes! We have a winner here. nt

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

21. Good point!

[Xipe Totec]

4. It was a trial buffoon. And I don't mean Al Franken. nt

[JI7]

6. No. It was about idiots wanting to look pure thinking it would help their career

Specifically 2020.

[Champion Jack]

34. yup

[Kittycow]

7. They should have gone after trump for sexual harassment instead.

Methinks they were too chicken. Or perhaps the donor class would have been offended.

[leftstreet]

8. Huh. I hadn't thought of that

I'm not sure if Gillibrand herself wasn't put in the position of possible sacrifice.

Oh my. What are the chances?


Fascinating

[jalan48]

9. I think Gillibrand wants to run for President and being a strong advocate (zero tolerance ) for

women sounds much better than being a strong advocate for big tobacco.

[octoberlib]

10. It wasn't the best possible decision and zero tolerance doesn't work.

There is a documentary about what a massive failure it's been in public schools.

[ProudLib72]

15. I agree

Zero tolerance has done nothing but harm the public schools.

[dflprincess]

31. Zero tolerance generally results in

zero common sense. As demonstrated by Gillibrand and her allies this week.

[Binkie The Clown]

12. It was utter foolishness and the worst possible decision.

It was just another example of Dems shooting themselves in the foot in order to flaunt their supposed moral superiority. An unbelievably stupid move that will cost us dearly. Who is going to be as tough on Republican liars as Franken was? Answer: Nobody. Not one damn Dem has had the balls to stand up to the Republicans like Franken has. Sacrificing him was suicidal, but then the Democratic party has all the expertise in the realm of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. I'm am so beyond disgusted that Gillibrand will never be able to erase that black mark in my book.

[Amaryllis]

26. Not only stand up to Rs but also really knew how to question people in judiciary committee hearings

and put their back against the wall.

[Hortensis]

13. I'm afraid I think that's a truly bizarre idea.

Just who's supposed to have engineered the destruction of the career of a colleague? We're talking the Democratic Party's senate caucus, not Putin's vicious inner circle oligarchs.

Frankly, I truly don't understand why some are here. I would never associate with, much less support, the kind of evil people and plots some are imagining here.

Btw, when we imagine what others think and do, it's shaped by who and what we are and might do ourselves, or at least want to, because that's what we understand.

[ProudLib72]

16. No

It's called trying to make sense out of a nonsensical response to allegations.

[flamingdem]

17. Ugh. Count this woman out

and countless others who can still think clearly.

I'm a human being before being a female. What was done to Franken was less than humanistic and goes against my ideals. I think a man can be a feminist.

[dflprincess]

32. In the past Franken has stood with Gillibrand and her efforts

to something about sexual assault in the military and military contractors. Claire McCaskill who also called for Al's resignation has blocked Gillibrand's efforts with the military.

Proving your point that a man can be a feminist and adding that sometimes a woman does more harm to other women than a man does.

[flamingdem]

37. Agree with you

and have experienced plenty of that in my life!

[ariadne0614]

18. I fear it will trigger a backlash.

Consider this:
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/12/10/yoffe-sexual-harassment-college-franken-216057?cid=apn

[customerserviceguy]

30. I read that story earlier today

and it made some strong points. Even if some of us disagree with the conclusions, it would be worthy to read to at least know what the MeToo'ers are going to face.

[suegeo]

25. ?All of the allegations

?? All of the allegations seem really flimsy to me. The first one, was republican ops, ratfucking the democratic party.

The rest are a bunch of photos at the state fair: Oh, this seems like an innocent photo, but it was just before he groped me. What further proof do you need.

The final was somebody who posed in a selfie where her waist was touched.

None of this, even if true, and it's not, rises to the point where a non-fascist has to give up his Senate seat so it can be stolen by fascists and putin backers.

"All of the allegations" is bullshit, just fuck off

[Demsrule86]

27. Not in this lifetime.

She is dead to me.

[bagelsforbreakfast]

28. +1

[Demsrule86]

40. Thank you.

[dflprincess]

33. Yup.

[Demsrule86]

39. This is not a minor disagreement on policy...this is a denying a fellow Democrat due process to

fight what I believe is a right wing attack...and I won't get over it. I value loyalty...and these folks are our elected. We deserved better. They also endangered the seat...we can't afford to lose another suit and for what? A big fat nothing.

[dflprincess]

42. I agree completely. Nt

[airplaneman]

43. I 100% agree that denying due process is what is unacceptable about what was done here. n/t.

[customerserviceguy]

29. If the Democratic Party

didn't already have what you call "the women's movement", then we're sunk. I put that term in quotes because obviously there are persons of the female gender who will be voting against their interests on Tuesday, as they did November last year, so the movement you describe does not have the 100% support of all who consider themselves female.

No, I don't think some powers that be set Gillibrand up to be the crusader here, I think that her pivot to being the wannabe champion of female victims of sexual harassment (instead of working for the NRA) was what set her up to think she was the rightful leader of the group that called on Al Franken to step down and take one for the team. I see her as an opportunist.

[ProudLib72]

35. I think you misunderstood me a little

We are and have been a party concerned with women's issues. My point was that the women's movement that exists as its own entity outside of the party has gained so much momentum that latching on to it was too large of an enticement. It is assumed that the women's movement was supported by Dems and that a lot of women in it were Dems. But I don't think that a direct, concrete link had ever been made. It was the difference between saying "We stand with you" and actually taking direct action.

[Demsrule86]

41. If there was anything to this that would be one thing... so why did they fall for an obvious GOP

hit job?

[ProudLib72]

45. You mean, setting aside every possible explanation

Why did they fall for a hit job?

Hell, I don't know. Maybe the rethugs set it up for moore, and our party, knowing full well it was a smear campaign, thought it was an opportunity to show them we mean business? Seems as good an explanation as any other. But tell me you don't feel as though there was some orchestration going on among our senators. I'm not going to say they were despicable, scheming cabal. I don't think the intent was evil. I do think that, within the span of the first allegation and the eighth, they hatched a plan that was supposed to put us on top. It backfired sensationally.

[brush]

36. Nah, the accusations are sketchy at best. Gillibrand fell for an obvious repug hit job.

[bitterross]

38. "...best possible decision in light of all the allegations? " Are you freaking kidding?

In light of right-wing props and anonymous people making accusations? This was the best decision - I think not.

No, the best possible decision in this case would have been to take a play from the GOP play-book. Ride it out and wait for the story to die out or for the real facts to come out. In this case it looks more and more like the real facts are this was a set up.

If you don't like learning from the opposition's winning strategy then how about following what we say are our values. That everyone, including Franken, is innocent until proven guilty. That everyone deserves due process.

Do you actually expect the GOP to follow our lead on this and force their people to resign when they come under attack so that they can maintain some air of accountability and morality? You haven't paid much attention to history if you do. Because that is not going to happen.

[ProudLib72]

44. That was

[OnDoutside]

48. I think it shows the folly of allowing one issue advocates to dominate the discussion. It's

warping the conversation within the Democratic Party as other one issue advocates have warped the conversation within the GOP.

[ProudLib72]

49. Definitely YES

Which brings us to why they decided to pick this issue to focus on. The argument that they were trying to keep moore out doesn't make much sense when doing so cost one of our best senators. The argument that they were trying to call attention to tRump's behavior doesn't make sense when his base loves him for that very behavior.

We were quite happily walking and chewing gum at the same time when this became the main focus. It's very strange.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

50. I think Gillibrand and/or Klobuchar are going to be in the field in 2020

This helped to establish Gillibrand as a leader and a fighter.

Will everyone still hate what she did, or will everyone eventually accept it and come to realize it was the best possible decision in light of all the allegations?

We won't know for a year if this was worth it. The GOP clearly had dirt on Franken and chose to play "well what about?" It cost us, but it didn't exactly go down the way they thought. Purging Conyers and Franken created an appearance that we practice what we preach, and helps the party tap into a growing resentment among women -- particularly among women whose husbands supported Trump.

And yes - they counter-purged Trent Franks. We'll see if there is additional fallout.

The reemergence of Trump's female accusers seems to be gaining traction in a way that it did not during the election. We'll see how that plays out.

[OnDoutside]

53. On the contrary rather than Reps having "the dirt" on Franken, quite a lot

Of Reps have stood up and said there is a clear difference between what Franken is alleged to have done versus the rest of them including Moore, Trump and Conyers. It's plain nuts what Gillibrand did.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

55. Franken already had issues in that regard, though

Don't take my word - read Al Franken Giant of the Senate. The article Al wrote for Playboy that Coleman dug up drew widespread condemnation from feminists in 2008, and calls for Al to drop out. Obama was pretty chilly toward him.

I love Al and have sent money to his campaign and Midwestvalues PAC. I take no pleasure in his departure.

[gopiscrap]

51. that's kinda what I am thinking too

[110liberal]

52. best possible decision

look at Gillibrand facebook posts look at the posts here, they are mostly anti Gillibrand. We judge a politician in the Congress by how they vote and what they support. The decision to deny Franken due process is not a winning decision. To get back to winning we have to be a big tent. Franken did nothing to be bushwhacked by fellow senators. This does nothing to advance the Democratic party and it was the worst possible decision.

[Locrian]

54. what, more 3D chess?

[ProudLib72]

56. Would you believe tic tac toe? nt