When Do We Start To Listen To Black Women Instead of Expecting Them To Clean Up Our Mess?

[VermontKevin]

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

How do we repay Black Women? How about they take the lead in selecting our candidate? They were right the last time.

[oberliner]

1. That last tweet really nails it

Link to tweet

Could not agree more.

[Tom Rinaldo]

4. Truth n/t

[VermontKevin]

6. Maybe the NYTimes can stop writing about Nazis I don't give a shit about

and start writing stories about people who are striving to make this world better.

[oberliner]

11. More diversity would help

Were there any articles in the NY Times talking about the views of black female voters in Alabama that were written by black female writers/reporters?

[VermontKevin]

14. I can't think of one article.

[rsong71]

78. AMEN!!

[Irish_Dem]

2. Black women have power right now and need to use it.

Time to start running for office in larger numbers.

[mcar]

3. We need to do this now!

[Demsrule86]

5. Another divisive post. Edited to promote understanding of POV.

Last edited Wed Dec 13, 2017, 12:09 PM - Edit history (2)

I feel this post is divisive in that it promotes the idea that the Democratic Party does not appreciate Black voters. I don't believe this is true. Perhaps I misinterpreted the post. I don't know. But I do know that Perez realized that the election in Alabama depended on POC and reached out to them quietly and spent big money to do so which was smart. There is no doubt that it was those votes that won the day as was true in Virginia also. And for those who are using this post to imply I am some sort of a racist...shame on you.

[VermontKevin]

10. Kindly tell us all how, exactly, this is "divisive."

Don't be shy.

[rainlillie]

16. It's not divisive, it's giving credit to people

Who are rarely celebrated and noticed. Thank you for posting this.

[VermontKevin]

21. Well, it's divisive if you think that the choices Black women made are wrong.

[Demsrule86]

37. That is not what I said at all.

I suggest you read the updated post...not feeling the need to re-type it.

[Hortensis]

50. The OP assumes some special wisdom comes with color.

Is this a racially linked genetic trait? How about genetically determined black conservatives? Are they wiser?

If it's environmental, are middle class blacks just as wise as those who've spent their entire lives mired in poverty and lack of opportunity? Or vice versa.

Note that I'm not arguing at this point against the idea that women are a superior sex who should take control.

Only against the clearly racist premises that
1. One race possesses better judgement than others.
2. None of this "mess" is of their doing. They may only be 13% of Americans, but of course they have responsibility for their actions just like the rest of the human race. It's likely that many of the the small percentage who voted for Obama but refused to turn out for Democrats in 2016 realized belatedly that their complacency resulted in devastating consequences for them.

Today I am both proud of all Alabamans who voted for Sen-elect Jones' message of decency and respect and also grateful for the enormous stupidity of the right-wing kicks in the butt that impelled those not capable of that to at least get out and vote against Moore.

[Demsrule86]

66. What a great post...very eloquent.

I agree. We are all i this together...and when we have a big tent, we win.

[retread]

83. I would argue that the "special wisdom" is linked to past, present and future experiences. In

Alabama those experiences are tightly coupled with color.

[Hortensis]

84. You can enjoy that idea all you want, but I'm not buying the

romantic "noble PoC" picture any more than the "noble redskin" one.

Have a nice day.

[brer cat]

25. All honor and glory go to

white males, doncha know?

Thank you for including the important word "listen" in your OP. It is long past time for whites and males to quit 'splaining to Black women what they should think and how they should vote. It is a major cause of tone-deafness.

[VermontKevin]

27. We need to listen, think, think again, then ask if our opinion would have value.

That's a difficult thing for the top of the food chain to accept.

[Demsrule86]

35. See updated post...

[Demsrule86]

38. I have updated my post...and no one has ever accused me of being shy...but since you ask so nicely.

I thought it implied that Democrats don't appreciate Black voters...which is not true. I absolutely believe without those votes we would have lost.

[mercuryblues]

12. No it's not

Without the African American community, led by women, you would be saying Senator Moore this morning. Ignoring that fact is diminishing the minorities voters. <- that would be divisive.

[Pacifist Patriot]

13. Indeed

[The Polack MSgt]

22. How is giving credit to the people who did the heavy lifting -

In a critical election divisive?

If African Americans in Alabama votes in proportion to their percentage of the general population, Senator Moore would be swearing in soon.

The black vote was around 30% of the total, in a state that aggressively suppresses their access to the polls.

They saved America from a disastrous outcome, I don't understand why acknowledging this pisses you off.

[Demsrule86]

33. I give them credit too...updated post with my POV. cheers.

[The Polack MSgt]

39. Thank you for the update.

I actually do try to be less confrontational, but I acknowledge that I am bad at it.

The bald statement of the original post - without explanation - got my hackles up.

Peace

[Demsrule86]

46. I should have been more explicit... and It turns out I was wrong on my interpretation of the

motives of the OP anyway. Thanks for your kind reply. You replies were fine. I am at fault not you.

[MrsCoffee]

24. Wow.

Say WHAT?

How exactly is this divisive?

Please elaborate as I just can't wait to hear this.

[VermontKevin]

28. This is the same poster who told me yesterday that Anita Hill was "ancient history."

[LanternWaste]

26. No doubt, a particular bias demands you perceive it as such...

No doubt, a particular bias demands you perceive it as such...

[Demsrule86]

29. Oh please...your words are meaningless to me...I just think that the OP

implies that the Democratic party does not appreciate Black voters. I don't think that is true. Notice that Perez quietly reached out to them.

[VermontKevin]

30. The Democratic Party listens to Black women. It's why the 2016 candidate was who they chose.

[Demsrule86]

43. The 2016 candidate was who all Democrats chose. That being said, we won't win without POC.

But I since your post implicitly says the Democratic Party does listen to Black Women, I was obviously wrong. And for that I apologize.

[VermontKevin]

45. No, it was not who all Democrats chose. We had a primary, yes? We chose who Black women chose.

[Demsrule86]

67. We all chose a candidate together....and that is how it should be.

[VermontKevin]

70. Yes. A primary process where Black women voters prevailed happened.

[LexVegas]

36. "the Democratic Party does not appreciate Black voters"

True.

[VermontKevin]

40. Oh, Lordy. This thread is not about you.

[brush]

41. Demsrule86, I follow your posts all the time and I'm with you 99% of the time, on this issue...

though you're misinterpreting the OP.

Just give AA voters our due on this one. We get taken for granted too much so a little recognition goes a long way.

We are a solid part of the Dem base and we are like the Post Office — we always deliver.

[Lonestarblue]

80. Maybe black voters dont feel heard.

I interpreted this post not only as gratitide for their support, but also as an appeal to listen to the needs of black voters. Too often we seem to focus on what white suburban voters are interested in, as when Tom Perez and Bernie Sanders made their strange journey last summer to talk to voters. People of color are far more likely to live in poverty and their children often receive inferior education. Because of cost and poor preparation, many young people have less access to college and the potential to rise out of poverty. Good jobs and equal opportunity to get those jobs (like writing opinion pieces for NYT) should be based on knowledge and merit, not on tradition and bias. And the criminal justice system is a nightmare for people of color. All that said, there are also many white people living in poverty, with their children also having poor educations. We need to stop thinking that all issues are equal to all people and start addressing the ones that matter most for improving everyone’s lives, not just the ones who have the loudest voices or the most money.

[brush]

81. Yes. Agreed. Good post.

[Fullduplexxx]

7. They spoke and were heard ... congrats

[Sunsky]

8. Amen nt

[better]

9. As soon as we're old enough to understand what they tell us, if we're smart!

[n2doc]

15. I guess I would like to know who they thought should have been the D candidate?

The problem was caused by the nut job R's nominating the worst person they could find. I am glad that AA women (AND men) came out and saved their state from ignominy. But really, Democrats did not cause the problem. Jones seems like a fine candidate and Senator given that it is Alabama. Who would have been better, who could win there?

[VermontKevin]

18. Well, Black women gave us HRC as the 2016 candidate. They were right.

I'm thinking they will do a fine job pointing the way in 2020.

[alarimer]

52. Who couldn't beat the worst candidate in history (and who underperformed Obama in many places).

The problem is, mathematically speaking, it is not enough to rely on any particular group. It cannot work.

The really important thing is to get diverse people to run for office, all over the place. Then you have many candidates to choose from instead of retreads from the past.

Controlling state legislatures will matter in order to reduce the effect of gerrymandering and to remove voter suppression laws. Turnout, obviously, is huge. Democrats win when turnout is high.

[VermontKevin]

54. Are you talking about Bernie that way? The worst candidate in history?

[brush]

82. Your headline is very problematic. It's as if you haven't heard about the Russians, vote...

suppression, vote tampering and general over all repug cheating to steal the election.

Wonder how you missed all that?

[sheshe2]

17. This one right here.

Ijeoma Oluo
✔
@IjeomaOluo

If you are thanking the black women of Alabama tonight for defeating Roy Moore

maybe tomorrow you can start thinking about how to repay them
11:12 PM - Dec 12, 2017



This...they are our base along with black men. This.

[VermontKevin]

19. We repay them by listening, maybe?

[sheshe2]

20. Hell yes!

[ismnotwasm]

23. Yes.

And this one is true as well. `

Link to tweet

[GaryCnf]

31. Just black WOMEN?

The OP acts like issues related to gender are the (or even "a" ) major factor in the voting patterns of black women.

The major factor causing BLACK voters (male AND female) to vote Democratic are issues related to our race AND our party better darn well pay attention to those issue if we expect to win.

We did in Alabama.

[VermontKevin]

32. You really think gender issues don't motivate Black women?

[standingtall]

42. There is no evidence that gender issues played a big role

in turning out African American women in Alabama. Gender issues probably ranked pretty low behind race,economy and healthcare. The exit poll showed that 55% of Alabama voters didn't even think the allegations against Roy Moore were even important that ought to tell us something.

[VermontKevin]

44. Sorry, but have you actually asked any Black women?

[standingtall]

47. Been around African Americans all

my life I don't need to ask them to confirm that pocket book issues and healthcare are generally more important to them than gender issues.

[VermontKevin]

48. Oh. You've been "around" them?

[standingtall]

49. Yes I have infact

I've dated black women even lived with a few of them. I don't know what your trying to do, but I don't need conduct my own poll to confirm black women care more about pocket book issues than gender stuff. Especially sense I already cited the exit poll in Alabama.

[VermontKevin]

53. Your anecdotal evidence is fascinating.

[standingtall]

56. I already cited an exit poll that

55 percent of Alabama did not think the allegations of Moore were important. Then you ask me if I personally asked somebody. What were going to try and refute with somebody in your little circle as if that were to be reflective of everyone? What do the racial demographics of Vermont look like?

[VermontKevin]

59. I am sure your exit poll was broken down by race/gender and asked the

specific question you think it answers.

[standingtall]

64. actually no it is not

but given the fact the Democrat won and there was high African American turnout. Thee had to be a significant number of African American women who didn't view as the important issue. Only 7% even claimed the allegations of Moore were the most important issue. 35% believed it was not a factor at all. 19% percent believed it a minor factor. 34% believed it was one of several important factors and will give that group overwhelmingly went for Jones, but still it is lumped in with other issues and only 7% believed it to be the most important issue.

[VermontKevin]

65. Kindly explain your reasoning using actual math.

[standingtall]

68. I just did

I already told you I believe the gender issue ranks below the issues of race,the economy and healthcare. What you want me to go ask every single black woman in Alabama what issues they think are most important. I will also point out that in Virginia where the population is 20% African American was a blowout in the Governor race and the Democrat wasn't running against an accused pedophile or even an opponent who had been accused of sexual misconduct. Race,healthcare and economy are bread and butter Democratic issues that have always been front and center for African Americans. Not that gender issues don't matter at all, but the idea that there most important issue driving people to polls just is simply not true.

[ismnotwasm]

61. Gender stuff Sweet baby Jesus

Black women changed the entire face of feminism when white feminism refused to listen. White feminism had to change from the sheer force of the backlash and is STILL learning how to listen. And often failing. And having to try again. Don’t discount the effect Black women have in any topic.

[GaryCnf]

55. Look at your own graphic

The gender gap between black men and black women was about 5%. That is virtually a 1:1 correlation based on race.

The "race gap" between white women and black women was 58%.

IF gender-specific issues were a/the major factor in how black women vote, either the gender gap between the way men and women in our community vote would be greater than 5% OR the "race gap" between white women and black women would be RADICALLY smaller.

Oh, btw, relying on those gender-specific issues in 2016 gave the Democratic Party 60,000 less votes in Wayne County, Michigan in 2016 than it got in 2012 (also known as losing 45,000 more votes in a single county in Michigan to a statistically-unsound . . . and dare I say disrespectful of us as a unique community with unique interests . . . political theory than we lost to Jill Stein across all of Michigan combined).

Doug Jones did what we need to do in every election.

[VermontKevin]

57. Or, white women believe their race protects them from gender issues.

Did you account for that?

[GaryCnf]

60. Wow, now that is desperate

Tell that to white women. Tell them how they are protected.

When you're done, you might take a stab at explaining why the percentage of black males who vote Democratic and black females who vote Democratic is so close. Do you really think the men in our community are that much better than white men?

[VermontKevin]

62. I have no idea what question you are asking based on math.

[ismnotwasm]

63. 94% of Black women who voted voted for Hillary Clinton

That statistic is the most powerful one I’ve seen. Now nobody is trying to take away credit from Black males, if that is your concern, but acknowledging what a powerful force the black female vote is should NOT start an argument.

[GaryCnf]

71. Percentage means almost nothing

As a community, we (both men and women) vote 90%+ for the Democratic candidate. That is how stark the difference is between the parties when it comes to our welfare.

Turnout means everything.

The gender-oriented "values" campaign of 2016 ignored the fact that black men and black women are politically connected to each other and to the Democratic Party by our race a thousand time (just a rhetorical expression, not a mathematical calculation) more than black Democratic women are connected to white Democratic women by their gender. We paid the ultimate price for failing to recognize that.

Doug Jones did not. He went to the black community and his surrogates went to the black community and talked about issues specific to us as a race instead of relying on the 2016 dogma that his "values" campaign (which did indeed magnificently inspired white Democratic/Independent/and even Republican women in Alabama to get to the polls and vote for Jones) would simultaneously inspire turnout in black men or black women.

It was not just political genius, it was political courage. To refuse to accept the suggestion implied through the selective praise of only black women that somehow gender can serve as a substitute for talking to black people about our issues isn't looking for an argument. It's looking for a path to victory.

[ismnotwasm]

74. With respect, you are missing my point

What I am saying—perhaps poorly—is that black women in particular are an emerging -powerful political force, in turnout, in organization, in representation. This changes that face of everything. This does NOT mean that Black men aren’t also a political force. That 94% absolutely means something. It means Black women—who weren’t exactly enamoured with Hillary, brought their vote out in numbers that are astounding in one of the most bizarre elections ever out of political expediency and yes, bravery.

[GaryCnf]

75. That isn't your fault

I routinely miss good points.

Black women have always been a powerful force, as have black men. It's high time we both listen AND speak to both. I am with you completely.

The 60,000 fewer votes in Wayne County in 2016 I mentioned up thread, however, tells me we have a lot more to do than simply selecting a particular candidate, even one as eminently qualified as Hillary Clinton.

[ismnotwasm]

76. And we agree.

[Iggo]

34. You and who else?

[smirkymonkey]

51. Hear, Hear!

[ladjf]

58. I'm very proud of the black men and women for their wisdom and sorry to see that so many white

people voted for the criminal sex deviate and ally of Donald Trump rather than using objective good judgment.

The African Americans most definitely won the election for us. They were able to see the huge difference between the candidates.
I'm confident that in future elections they will continue to judge politicians by their real merits rather than trust the words of disingenuous political crooks.

Thank you so much.

Ladjf, a grateful old white man

[jalan48]

69. Great to see the turnout in Alabama.

[lancelyons]

72. All votes of all races counted.

The 27 % for white men and 35 from white women count as votes as well.

Sure African American votes help and they are aligned with the 27% of white men and 35% of white women in Alabama.

All votes count and we need to stop with the statements of just the African American votes where the ONLY reason.

[Snotcicles]

73. Maybe they aren't such a "minority" after all. I hope this will become a perpetual inspiration.

And they continue to exercise the power they displayed yesterday in Alabama.
"Use it or lose it" comes to mind.

[dlk]

77. Black Women Know What's What

[maxsolomon]

79. I've been listening to them my whole life

Teachers, friends. I vote almost exactly as if I was a black woman. I always have.

So, when are we going to? Who's 'we'?

[Gothmog]

85. K&R