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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe Gathering Storm
Very few things happen at the right time, and the rest do not happen at all. The conscientious historian will correct these defects.
Herodotus
On Thursday evening (December 14), the internet had a buzz about Team Mueller being prepared to file indictments on Friday morning. A curious guessing game took place: would it be Jared? Or perhaps Donald Junior? Such speculation was even found on DU:GD. And, not surprisingly, the morning passed without incident.
This raises the question of how and why this type of thing happens. The first factor, of course, is that many people recognize that Trump & Co. conspired and coordinated with Russian intelligence (and organized crime) to steal the 2016 election, and want these criminals held responsible. Mr. Mueller first indicted two members of the Trump campaign, and secured a guilty plea from a third. Then, Mr. Mueller flipped General Flynn. Thus, the increasing fury of the right wing republican attempt to derail the investigations including in the House and Senate, as well as Mr. Mueller's.
Malcolm X used to say he knew he was right when his opposition squawked the loudest. Common sense suggests that the White House and their rabid supporters are aware that the Mueller investigation is getting very close to Trump and his closest associates. A good person could reasonably conclude the volume of their noise is because they believe more indictments are being prepared.
However, an informed person would remember that there was no warning before the first two indictments and the guilty plea were filed. Mr. Mueller does not leak to journalists. The information regarding General Flynn reported before he pleaded guilty came from Flynn's legal team. This is important, as Mr. Mueller had requested that no information be made public, before his team was able to verify literally every claim Flynn made, and every document he had produced.
From that time until now, Mr. Mueller's team has been interviewing people such as Hope Hicks, who had to decide if she should confirm what Flynn said about various campaign and White House meetings, or try to outsmart Mr. Mueller. She is not the only other witness the investigators have interviewed. And one can only speculate who, if anyone, has recently testified in front of the grand jury.
In the coming weeks, Mr. Mueller's team will request interviews with other people close to Trump. And Mr. Mueller will present more witnesses to the grand jury. It is likely that at least four of these will invoke their 5th amendment right to not answer questions. But it is equally likely that at least two others will spill their guts. And it is certain that Mr. Mueller's team, having already had some contact with the legal representatives of all seven, are fully aware what each will do. But their lawyers are not going to leak anything that Mr. Mueller has requested they remain silent about.
It is possible even likely that there may be some fascinating leaks from members of the intelligence community in the upcoming weeks. There is a system that was set up for this long ago, as everyone who has paid attention since the early 1970s knows. And this system is capable of putting groups and individuals outside of the White House in check.
And so now we come to those who started or spread rumors about a new indictment. The majority are probably good people, who sincerely want to see the Trump administration removed from power, and incarcerated. Younger people in particular might be prone to wanting things wrapped up immediately (compared to older folks who remember Watergate and Iran-contra).
Still others might be internet journalists who got ahead of themselves with their predictions. They know that there is a storm brewing, and can be forgiven for thinking that today would bring fireworks. But keep in mind that none of the corporate journalists had predicted anything for today.
Finally, be aware that there are rat-fuckers, intent upon creating confusion and worse. This includes those who purposely spread false rumors on the internet, because they know it can be like a penal institution, where any rumor twice repeated is accepted as fact. Their purpose can include getting good people's hopes up, thus causing disappointment with Mr. Mueller when the anticipated indictment fails to be filed.
Lastly, I should again recommend that people listen closely to Malcolm Nance. Recently, he said he expects things to unfold by March. (This is not unlike when, in a recent OP, I said that the DU community will find February to be a rewarding month.) There may be good things happening between now and then, too. For Mr. Mueller is a conscientious historian and prosecutor,
Peace,
H2O Man
dhol82
(9,351 posts)regnaD kciN
(26,044 posts)In the latter, it took over a year between McCord spilling the beans in his letter to Judge Sirica and Nixon's eventual resignation (and over two years from the initial break-in)...but Congress was controlled by Democrats at the time, and so there was gridlock except on the basics of keeping the country running throughout that period. Now, we've got a "working partnership" between Trump and the Republican Congressional majority on measures that will cause irreparable damage to the country, and those measures will continue full-speed-ahead for the duration, no matter the degree of public disapproval. If it takes over a year from Mueller's appointment to Trump's removal, it may take a generation or more to ameliorate what will have been done to this country in the interim.
dhol82
(9,351 posts)We may never dig out from the hole that is being dug.
H2O Man
(73,505 posts)Good points. Thank you.
The legislative branch was severely and purposely damaged in the 1990s by Newt & Co. The judicial branch proved to be as damaged as we thought with its Bush v Gore ruling in 2000. Both branches are in worse shape today ....thus, as you accurately note, the republicans are exploiting their opportunity to inflict as much systematic damage as possible upon the nation.
There is also the very real possibility that Trump will seek to create an "emergency" situation, by sparking a war with North Korea. That would, of course, create problems beyond what Congress and/or the courts can do.
Iahotdog
(119 posts)H2O Man
(73,505 posts)pbmus
(12,422 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)what it is next year and thereafter. Most of us would. I'm not sure about a lot of those who can't live without dialysis for instance.
I think our institutions will endure and we'll bring ourselves through this, but shockingly maybe not.
H2O Man
(73,505 posts)I am hoping it can, but I have my doubts.
Thank you.
AJT
(5,240 posts)March will be too late.
H2O Man
(73,505 posts)To "stop" the investigation, Trump would have to fire the assistant Attorney General, Mr. Mueller, and 14 more top FBI senior staff. That won't happen.
drray23
(7,615 posts)And insist he has the right to do so. This may end up tied in court but it will take months to unfold.
H2O Man
(73,505 posts)drray23
(7,615 posts)It does not matter if this is not legal. he will attempt it anyway and repeat it enough to rile up his base. It will take going to court to stop him and this will buy him time. functioning within the parameters of what is normal or legal is not something that is of concern to Trump.
H2O Man
(73,505 posts)Mark Twain quotes says that the problem in the world is not one of ignorance, it's of people knowing so much that just ain't so.
Only Assistant Attorney General Rosenstein can fire Mr. Mueller. And he is limited to doing so for just cause. More, Rosenstein, who is in very close contact with Mr. Mueller, has made clear that Mr. Mueller's investigation is going strictly by the law.
I think I pay as close attention to Trump as anyone on this forum. Plus, I've had plenty of experience dealing with his type in the forensic mental health groups I used to run, and in some of my decades of experience in politics. Obviously, Trump & Co do not think the law applies to him. Hint: that's what, by no coincidence, Mr. Mueller is investigating.
coeur_de_lion
(3,676 posts)Maybe the reason Trump has said he won't fire Mueller is because he knows he can't.
roamer65
(36,744 posts)H2O Man
(73,505 posts)My younger son recently referred to the USA as a "melting pot." I said that concept has never been accurate. At best, its a "tossed salad." And the tensions between various groups seems to be growing, particularly as a portion of white people in the southeast reflect the fossilized thinking of Patrick Buchanan.
babylonsister
(171,028 posts)I hang out with my almost 90 year old dad daily. He's a diehard Dem, and is anxious to hear good news!
H2O Man
(73,505 posts)If you ever think of it, tell your Dad I said hello. And that he did a great job as a father.
babylonsister
(171,028 posts)Thank you, kind sir!
H2O Man
(73,505 posts)need to be thanked for telling the truth, you are certainly welcome.
H2O Man
(73,505 posts)How are you & yours doing?
Hekate
(90,511 posts)...are evacuated. Our son wants to return to his house immediately, but our daughter took her kids down the coast to relatives for better air.
The fire is a monster -- Right now its progression seems to be in abeyance in the Santa Barbara area, but the Santa Ana winds are up again, which is always bad.
Our house here in Ventura, miraculously, is unhurt. The oak out back has burn marks on the trunk facing the house, but it is 150 to 200 years old and has doubtless survived brush fires before this. It's my first oak tree, so I'm trying to remember what I know about California oaks and fire. I think what kills them is crown fires. Well, that and infestations.
Whole neighborhoods have been wiped out not far away, and we lost just one house in ours. The hillsides surrounding us are burned over, landscaping has sustained relatively minor damage in every yard -- but I think the avocado farm down the hill is probably okay because they stay well-watered. The bird-of-paradise flower farm down the hill is completely burned over, truck a twisted skeleton, an outbuilding gone too, but perhaps the plants can grow back from the roots because they are so hardy. I hope so.
It's been stressful and I am still worried about my kids, but we are fine.
James48
(4,426 posts)K&r
Let's hope Jared is charged, and facing hail-time. That would make way for Trump to resign, to spend more time with Ivanka.
ProfessorGAC
(64,804 posts)My wife & I got married on the Ides or March in 1980!
We'd love an anniversary present like this!!!
orangecrush
(19,378 posts)Kick and rec.
H2O Man
(73,505 posts)coeur_de_lion
(3,676 posts)I should have realized Mueller never telegraphs his intentions.
H2O Man
(73,505 posts)remains a favorite LP of mine. And Mr. Mueller is currently my favorite prosecutor.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)...I read somewhere that they cannot plead the fifth before a Grand Jury.
H2O Man
(73,505 posts)has been granted immunity (or has been pardoned), they cannot plead the fifth. Otherwise, they can.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,511 posts)It's elegant in the way it presents the facts.
It's like a chain whose links are loose for the moment, but as time passes, they straighten out and then...
They tighten and all becomes clear.
Thank you for your great analysis.
H2O Man
(73,505 posts)I always hope that my contributions to this forum add something of value. If I have any talent, I suppose that it might be taking the same facts that we all know, but putting them in a slightly different sequence that brings some different focus into view. And I always appreciate your kindness!
2naSalit
(86,303 posts)burrowowl
(17,631 posts)You are following in the footsteps of Herodotus!
H2O Man
(73,505 posts)As you know, I was fascinated with "politics" since an early age. Having four older siblings helped spark that. And even today, nothing makes me happier than studying the political and social struggles of the 1950s and '60s, then the Watergate era, right through today. And that includes a heck of a lot of good, and of bad. Thus, I recognize that much of what took place then, takes place now. It's just that we all have greater technology -- including a shithead like Roger Stone. (Not trying to start a rumor about Roger's current rat-fucking!)
spanone
(135,774 posts)H2O Man
(73,505 posts)kentuck
(111,049 posts)For correcting the defects.
H2O Man
(73,505 posts)There is an important sociological dynamic found in groups: in general, they are more likely to act out negatively when their hopes have been raised, followed by disappointment, than if the group is slowly and consistently pushed down. And there are operatives who are fully aware of this. They are not our friends.
(That same dynamic is being experienced within the rabid right-wing of the republican party, those who believed Trump would bring back the 1950s. That is what frightens the more moderate republicans. People like the Bannonites are willing to destroy more than their party.)
kentuck
(111,049 posts)It seems that they believe partisan "lies" are the same as the "truth"?
It is a very dangerous condition, in my opinion.
H2O Man
(73,505 posts)They cannot tell the difference between the truth and lies. And it is very dangerous.
an informed person would remember that there was no warning before the first two indictments and the guilty plea were filed
H2O Man
(73,505 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)H2O Man
(73,505 posts)The_jackalope
(1,660 posts)H2O Man
(73,505 posts)Spread by rodents of the Roger Stone ilk.
myrna minx
(22,772 posts)Wonderful insights as always.
H2O Man
(73,505 posts)Sending a DU e-mail....
annabanana
(52,791 posts)H2O Man
(73,505 posts)I am fluent in both sanity and insanity!
FakeNoose
(32,535 posts)We have to be patient and trust Mr. Mueller. I believe at least some of these fake "leaks" are being planted by Bannon and Breitbart (maybe Faux News too) because they're trying very hard to discredit the standard professional news outlets. Every time a professional journalist makes a mistake or gets something wrong, it's another chance for the right-wingers to scream bloody murder. It's another opportunity to reduce our faith in America's free press.
There's so much riding on this and they all know it. I think that 95% of our reporters, journalists and pundits have been doing an outstanding job this year. (My opnion of their work last year is quite the opposite, but moving on...)
The rumors and leaks are not coming from Mueller, that much we know. I lived through Watergate and I'm prepared to place my trust in Mr. Mueller and his group. Even if he should be fired, his compadres on that team are ready to pick up where he left off. But let's hope that doesn't happen.
H2O Man
(73,505 posts)I remember the evening when Nixon finally resigned in disgrace. My brother and I were making a tape (cassette) to send to friend Rubin Carter. I was convinced that the United States would never, ever, elect another common criminal to the presidency. Holy cow, was I wrong!
FakeNoose
(32,535 posts)Never say never, I guess that's our new motto.
malaise
(268,628 posts)Just read this -thanks bro.
Nailed it - as usual.
H2O Man
(73,505 posts)Glad that you are back.
sellitman
(11,604 posts)Thank you for all you do. Great piece.
H2O Man
(73,505 posts)very much! That is very nice of you.
samnsara
(17,602 posts)...which means my planned escape from the 21st century is working...Now back to watching Bonanza and then Gunsmoke....
H2O Man
(73,505 posts)good shows. I heard someone on TV say that Roy Moore was like a character on True Detectives, season one.
CTyankee
(63,882 posts)utter exhiliaration we liberals had at the time. We are "caught in that sensual music" (with apologies to W.B. Yeats)...
I was confident that Libby would break, and Cheney be charged and convicted. And Patrick had enough evidence, without Scooter, that he might have charged Cheney. But he determined that it didn't reach the level of certainty required for a conviction. I disagreed at the time. But he did offer to provide Congress with all of the evidence, which should have led to Cheney's impeachment, but very, very few in the House or Senate were interested in pursuing the case.
There is, in my opinion, more reason to think that Mr. Mueller will (and is) focused on Trump. Yet, there remains a possibility that he could opt to make a report, and send it to Congress to evaluate a potential impeachment. While I do not believe that is the path he is taking, it can't be ruled out at this time.
Me.
(35,454 posts)"There is a system that was set up for this long ago, as everyone who has paid attention since the early 1970s knows. And this system is capable of putting groups and individuals outside of the White House in check"
lucca18
(1,239 posts)Words of wisdom.