Iran launches Holocaust denial cartoon contest

Bet they won't print that one.

Whoop! There it is!

The main thrust in the middle east is NOT that the holocaust did not occur, but why should MUSLIMS, AND ARABS, who had nothing to do with it, pay the cost of the holocaust by giving up land that has been Arabs for at least 2000 years? i.e why should the creation Israel, as a homeland for the Jews NOT be in Germany or Poland where the Holocaust occurred, but instead is in Palestine? A good cartoon would show a Frenchman and a German facing a Judge who ruled that since the French and Germans worked to kill off the Jews, the Arabs should be punished by having their land be taking away from them.

While the Supreme Leader of Iran, Ali Khamenei and the former President, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad both have denied the holocaust, other Iranian Government officials have said it occurred.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Bagher_Ghalibaf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Khatami

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hassan_Rouhani

One such person who said the Holocaust occurred:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Akbar_Velayati

Just a comment that such a cartoon could past in Iran. it would both acknowledge the holocaust AND point out why should Moslems and Arabs pay for what the Germans and French did (yes, I know the French did NOT run the Holocaust, but adding the French do to the assistance SOME French provided the Germans would make the cartoon more effective then just using the Germans.

I don't, actually, give too much of a shit whether the leaders of Iran "think" the Holocaust occurred or not.

The half-assed point they're trying to make about free speech falls flat, not just because they couldn't and wouldn't print a cartoon of Mohammed, but also because if they did print cartoons denying the Holocaust, no one would riot, or try to kill the people who drew them.

(And yes, for the record, I am opposed to French hate speech and holocaust denial laws, too. I prefer the clear guidance of our own 1st Amendment)

As for your sort of non-sequitur rant about Israel, here's the deal, Jack. You can debate the inherent rightness or wrongness of what went down 1920-1948 into the ground (not to mention "who was here first"-- to wit, "why should Arabs pay for Nazi Germany", why should Jews pay for what the Romans did in the 1st Century AD?) but the simple fact of the matter is, Israel exists. It's NOT going away, and demanding that Israel 'negotiate' with people whose idea of a fair settlement is "you all go to Germany, or Poland, or maybe Wyoming"... that's NOT going to happen.

And the fact that people authoritatively flatulate that noise as if it's a reasonable answer to the problem- is it any wonder why proponents of the actual peace process- which involves Jews and Arabs both living in the region, preferably in 2 states- are demoralized and have no traction in Israel right now?

If you want to fight the Israel-Arab wars be my guest, but all I was discussing is how such a cartoon could be drawn. I can see you would hate it, but it would also have some truth behind it (which tends to make good Political Cartoons).

My proposal was like the old joke about the Plane running out of fuel over the Ocean, the Pilot gets on the intercom and tell the passengers they had throw out all of the cargo but they near to lose more weight. A Frenchmen walked to the door and yell "Viva la France" and jumps out. The Pilot says that helps, but he still has to much weight on the plane. An Englishman walks up and says "Long live the Queen" and jumps out, the Pilot says that is fine but he still has to much weight, then a Texan get up and yells "Remember the Alamo" and throws two Mexicans out....

A good political cartoon is like a good political joke, it has a bite to it. The joke is based on the hatred of Mexicans in Texas (while Mexicans are in Texas AND were there first). My proposed cartoon would be based on the fact the Arabs had nothing to do with the Holocaust, but it was Arab lands the Jews of Europe was "Given" by those people who did kill off six million jews (you can blame the Nazis, but from an Arab point of view why should land they have held for 2000 years be given to people who have lived in Europe for 2000 years and the justification for the ARAB land being given to the Jews is compensation for what EUROPEANS did to the Jews).

AS to your comments about the Romans, so the Romans removed the Jews but that was NOT the justification for support for Jews moving to Israel, the justification was compensation for the Holocaust. something the Arabs, even if their were anti-jewish, had no part of.

How a cartoon would be drawn? Mechanical pencil? rapidograph? Adobe illustrator?

Please elaborate on what specific subject for a cartoon you think I would hate, despite what you say would be "some truth behind it", bearing in mind that the cartoons in question on this thread pertain to Holocaust Denial.

I'll wait.

Show a German killing Jews in the Holocaust and then a Judge saying "You can not do that" and then show the German kicking out Arabs out of Palestine, while kicking the remaining Jews out of Europe and have the Judge say that was OK for those were only Arabs not Europeans.

In the slightest.

But that wouldnt be Holocaust Denial. (Which, simultaenously, I would more roll my eyes at in an Iranian newspaper, than "hate"

The broad point here is that the Iranians are trying to make a goofy point about free speech, goofy because for one, no way could they run a cartoon picture of mohammed, and two, their holocaust denial equivalency to charlie hebdo falls flat, because no one is going to riot or kill cartoonists for making holocaust denial cartoons.

And some Iranians are NOT that dumb NOT to use it which is why I posted their wikipedia site.

Theyre trying to find an example of "here is speech that would make you as mad as mohammed cartoons make some Muslims" but it doesnt work, again, because no one will riot or kill the artists.

will they understand why the attack on Charlie Hebdo was so horrifically wrong?

Invisible sky friend special rules special pleading microagressions incitement own the result punching up and did I mention special pleading

about all free speech.

For what it's worth, I was disgusted by the Charlie Hebdo cartoons insulting any religion, but I absolutely support their right to print them. The same goes for these disgusting cartoons, though these people should know they're making fools of themselves trying to deny well-documented historical facts.

Difference of course is a small satire mag vs a sovereign state doing the taunting.

Or if those offended by such cartoons will simply roll their eyes and carry on.

the iranian cartoons are illegal in france and germany. Anyone publishing them is subject to penalty and jail time. Check out author david irving.

It seems to me some one wants to ring peoples bells. Both Muslims and Jews are being provoked and prodded to react

have to be worrying about riots and beheadings over this.

The amount of anti-Jew propaganda staggered her, including many editions of the "Protocols."

Remember all US allies are perfect democracies, even when they are not. Nations that oppose the US are evil Dictatorship, even if they have democratic institutions. Thus Iran which has contested elections, is a "Dictatorship" even as its replaces its Presidents (and, Yes, Iran has a "Supreme Leader" he can also be replaced through the method is a little harder. On the other hand the "Supreme leader" has no authority on day to day running of Government, his job is to provide an overall guidance to the country.

As to the "Protocols of Zion", while available in Iran, does NOT seems to be something the Iran Government ACTIVELY support. Statements that the Protocols are forgeries are also avalible in Iran:



On the other hand The protocols are taught in Schools in Saudi Arabia:



Yes, it is permitted to say the Protocols are forgeries in Iran, but NOT in Saudi Arabia.

Along with a lot of the muslim world.

Iran has its problems, but if you look deep it is less then the problems in Arabia.

It appears to be the work of two Iranian cultural institutions: "The competition in Iran has been launched by the Tehran-based House of Cartoon and the Sarcheshmeh Cultural Complex, the Iranian newspaper Tehran Times reported over the weekend."