Apple Hydrogen Fuel Cell Battery Plans Revealed

[onehandle]

Apple is planning to make devices powered by hydrogen fuel cells, according to patent applications published by the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office.

The plans could create computers and phones with weeks-long battery power. It would also make the devices lighter and less bulky.

According to the Telegraph, hydrogen fuel cells work by converting hydrogen and oxygen into water and electrical energy. This technology is already being explored for cars and the military.

"Our country's continuing reliance on fossil fuels has forced our government to maintain complicated political and military relationships with unstable governments in the Middle East, and has also exposed our coastlines and our citizens to the associated hazards of offshore drilling," reads the patent application. "These problems have led to an increasing awareness and desire on the part of consumers to promote and use renewable energy sources."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/25/apple-hydrogen-battery-phone-computer-plan_n_1169336.html

[dotymed]

1. About 5 years ago,

I listened to an NPR series about a man who invented and used (daily) his hydrogen fueled vehicle. No emissions and the car had great speed and endurance. One segment was broadcat from the vehicle as the reporter rode along. I do not remember all of the details but I was amazed at how long between chargings and the "pep" of the vehicle. I have often wondered what happened to the technology. The fellow being interviewed said he had been approached by oil companies wanting to buy and bury the technology, he refused. At that time he said he had been driving the hydrogen fueled car for many years.
IMO, there are many technologies that have been hidden by the oil companies, we could have gone oil-free years ago.

[Atman]

3. Hartford has two generations of fuel cell buses on the road.

The first batch of the was put into service in 2007. The introduce four more "next generation" buses in 2010. The power plants are made by CT's United Technologies. Seems as if they can power buses, they should be able to work for cars, but I'm certainly engineer.

http://environmentalheadlines.com/ct/2010/10/15/next-generation-fuel-cell-powered-buses-introduced-in-hartford/

[ProgressiveProfessor]

14. It has been suggested that the spining reserve required could be used to eltectrolyze water

It is also another way to store excess solar energy

[truth2power]

9. Regarding the oil companies wanting to buy and bury the technology you mention. Nikola Tesla

comes to mind. There's surely a lot we don't know about amazing technologies.

I understand that the US govt. took custody of his papers after he died. There's a lot that's being kept from us in the interest of profit for the few.

[TheWraith]

36. Please keep the conspiracy theories to a minimum.

There's a lot of crazy pseudoscientific bullshit thrown around about supposedly suppressed technologies, and not one iota of it has any real evidence. To believe that, you have to believe that someone a hundred years ago managed to create some kind of miraculous free power technology that nobody in the vastly more advanced century since has ever even been able to find a hint of in independent research.

Tesla's ideas of "free energy" had nothing to do with production, it was about distribution, i.e. the ability to transmit electricity wirelessly via radio waves. It had nothing to do with unlimited power generation, as his electricity came from the same sources everyone else's did at the time.

[truth2power]

64. What he said, FOR THE TIME HE LIVED IN, was extraordinary enough...

We don't know what his papers might have shown.

Conspiracies do exist. Why do you try to minimize it?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

13. Utter nonsense

Gaseous fueled vehicles, including hydrogen have been around since the 70s. There is nothing magic or secret or suppressed about the technology. The issues are with refueling safely and rapidly by civilians. Not all that different than electric cars.

[CountAllVotes]

15. I have a friend in Holland

and he has been driving one of these cars that runs on hydrogen for at least 10 years.

Hiding secrets? Nawww ....

[Scuba]

2. Did they mention if the batteries will be constructed...

... by child labor in suicide-proof factories?

[skepticscott]

6. Uh, that's great, but how do you

fuel your iPhone with hydrogen? Hook it up to a very teeny H2 fuel line? And will you have to have one in your home, your car, your office and anywhere else you might need to recharge your phone?

[TheWraith]

8. That's one of two reasons fuel cells have never taken off for gadgets.

The other being that they're hideously uneconomical at the moment. But even if they were, nobody wants to recharge their phone with an eyedropper or a high pressure aerosol can, when they can just hook up a wire. We already have an extensive infrastructure for electricity that works well, and by the time fuel cells are practical we're more than likely to have much better batteries that hold a lot more power.

[jpak]

17. The can be recharged using electolyzers - which are small and efficient and cheap

yup

[TheWraith]

22. No, they're not even remotely "efficient."

Electrolyzing water into hydrogen is an INCREDIBLY lossy process. Not to mention you're suggesting that we could replace batteries, which are ~90% efficient, with a system that generates electricity, uses that electricity to inefficiently create hydrogen, then uses that hydrogen to inefficiently create electricity, all adding up to something like 30 or 40 percent efficiency.

That's simply ridiculous on the face of it.

[jpak]

23. Do your homework - electrolysis of water for hydrogen IS highly efficient - and hydrogen fuel cells

last longer than batteries.

yup

[TheWraith]

35. You are completely and consistently wrong on science.

"The energy efficiency of water electrolysis varies widely with the numbers cited below on the optimistic side. Some report 50–80%.[13][14][15] These values refer only to the efficiency of converting electrical energy into hydrogen's chemical energy. The energy lost in generating the electricity is not included. For instance, when considering a power plant that converts the heat of nuclear reactions into hydrogen via electrolysis, the total efficiency may be closer to 30–45%,[16] although the inefficiencies of powerplants in turning heat into electrical energy is not usually included in efficiency, so the former measure of 50–80% efficient is probably a more realistic efficiency."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis_of_water#Efficiency

That's just converting electricity to hydrogen; converting it back is going to be even lossier. So basically you're throwing out at least half of the energy you originally generated, compared to a battery which is upwards of 90% efficient in storing power. Hydrogen fuel cells have the potential to replace conventional generators for many applications, but when it comes to electronics and vehicles they're pure hype.

Really, jpak, you need to stop posting about stuff you don't understand.

[trekbiker]

31. agree, hydrogen is a pipe dream

We have an extensive existing electrical and fossil fuel infrastructure and ZERO hydrogen infrastructure. Building a hydrogen infrastructure would be an enormous task and just not practical.

Here is the future of transport in the US (my opinion). High speed rail will never be a large factor. Automobiles on roads will be the future for a very long time. I see the development of battery technology, regen braking technology and electric and hybrid electric as the most likely direction. And I dont mean cars like the Prius. the Prius is a gas engine car with a battery and electric motor to optimize the efficiency of the gas engine. A true electric hybrid would have a much smaller gas engine, a much larger battery and primarily operate as an electric vehicle which the Prius does not. The Volt is a better example. The future for the next several decades will evolve into electric vehicles with gasoline engine backup for range and flexibility.

[tridim]

16. You'll probably have to have it filled at the Apple store

And it will carry a 2000% markup because Apple products are so kickass.

[tridim]

39. Right, I wont buy anything made by Apple because their products are overpriced.

If they ever decide to sell products that are priced competitively in the market I'll take another look. I've been waiting for 35 years, so I probably shouldn't hold my breath.

[eyewall]

40. But think how aesthically pleasing it will be...

[HuckleB]

52. You consider them overpriced, yet I consider them a bargain.

Every Apple computer I have purchased has lasted double and triple the typical PC computer lifetime. Thus, a little extra money spent up front saved me a whole bunch of dough in the long run...

[guitar man]

56. Exactly

Im using a g4 Powermac in my recording studio that was made in '03, a Powermac g5 in my mix room that was made in '05 and another g5 at home that was made in '04 and they all run beautifully. And I've even got a little "bubble butt" iMac g3 from '01 that still runs and is useful for some tasks.

I'll buy a used apple over a new pc any day

[tridim]

58. And I record on my 8 year old PC.

There is nothing wrong with Apple hardware, I just think it's too expensive relative to PC hardware. No worries.

[tridim]

57. What evidence do you have the PC's don't last as long as Macs?

Especially considering Macs now use nearly the exact same hardware as PCs?

What do you mean by "PC lifetime"? Do they die? Are they given funerals?

Please define what you mean and meanwhile I'll keep computing on my 8 year old PC that has been cranking along without a hitch for 16 hours a day 365 days a year. When I decide that I need more speed I'll go to Microcenter and spend $150 for a new MB and CPU and slap it in my old case. That's what I did 8 years ago, done and done. Apart from one HD failure I've never had any PC completely die, they are just retired from my desk and the parts are passed on to people who don't need cutting edge performance, which is almost everyone.

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

18. Couldn't they be filled like re-fillable lighters?

[harun]

30. Yep.

[TheWraith]

7. I'll believe it when I see it. Patents aren't plans.

I could file for a patent on a laptop which runs off the body heat of the user, but that doesn't mean it's buildable. Hydrogen is still a long way off as a practical fuel.

[jpak]

19. Standby hydrogen fuel cell/electrolyzers for desktop computers have been on the market for some time

making them small enough for laptops is no big deal

yup

[quakerboy]

48. link?

[jpak]

59. here ya go

http://www.horizonfuelcell.com/stationary_power.htm

[Posteritatis]

20. Hell, as often as not patents are plans *not* to make something. (nt)

[TheWraith]

33. In theory, yes. In practice, no.

In practice patents are routinely filed for things that the inventors don't even have a clue how to implement. Case in point, years ago Microsoft got one for the use of human skin as a data and electrical conduit.

[TheWraith]

49. That's NOT what "personal area network" means.

"Personal area network" refers to short range communication between personal devices. Bluetooth headsets are an example. It has nothing to do with using human skin to conduct electricity and data.

[TroubleMan]

10. There's not enough platinum in the world to make enough fuel cells.

Great idea, but unless they've found a platinum-free solution, they'd hit peak platinum before they could make enough to be commercially viable.

[jpak]

24. Fuel cells that do not require Pt ave been developed

yup

[Ichingcarpenter]

11. here are the pictures on how it would work from apple insider

For their macbooks


http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/12/22/apple_investigating_fuel_cell_powered_macbooks.html



link on a better article:
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/12/22/apple_investigating_fuel_cell_powered_macbooks.html

[sofa king]

12. Better hope Dick Cheney doesn't invade Apple.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_weapons_laboratory

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/jun/15/iraq

'They are not mobile germ warfare laboratories. You could not use them for making biological weapons. They do not even look like them. They are exactly what the Iraqis said they were - facilities for the production of hydrogen gas to fill balloons.'

[Dreamer Tatum]

21. "Apple's hydrogen is so much better than Windows' hydrogen."

Coming to a discussion board near you in 5 years...

[DavidDvorkin]

26. Ha!

[boppers]

46. Don't forget the open source hydrogen project, "Hydronix"!

[Vogon_Glory]

25. If This Proves Feasible, We'll Probably have Right-Wing Shills And Toadies Decrying It Tomorrow

If Apple's hydrogen fuel-cell technology proves practical (and much cheaper than fuel cells are now), it'll probably be vigorously denounced by right-wing shills and toadies as being atheistic, un-American, and communistic, especially if it can make a serious dent in the fossil-fuel economy and especially the sources of the fossil-fuel fortunes of so many right-wing and Republican Party backers.

I'm hopeful that somebody will come up with a cheap, reliable 21st century alternative to the traditional battery and the internal-combustion engine, but I've been disappointed many times before.

[Bennyboy]

32. California...

http://cafcp.org/ CALIFORNIA FUEL CELL PARTNERSHIP

The research facility in West Sacramento is now closed. Was funded by 8 auto makers but I guess that stopped a few years ago....

[garybeck]

34. I'm skeptical. where is the hydrogen going to come from?

in order for a fuel cell to work, it needs hydrogen as fuel. Most of us don't have tanks of hydrogen lying around the house. Nor do we have electrolysers that can make hydrogen from water.

[Kablooie]

61. Couldn't. They just farm hydrangeas?

[Ron Obvious]

37. I don't think they'd let me take it on a plane.

I confess I still think "Hindenburg" whenever Hydrogen is mentioned, which is a bit out of date. Nevertheless, I don't think they'll let me take hydrogen fuel cells on a plane any time soon.

Shame as that's where'd be most useful to me to have that long a battery life.

[eyewall]

38. Isn't this backward?

The OP states: "According to the Telegraph, hydrogen fuel cells work by converting hydrogen and oxygen into water and electrical energy."

It should be the other way around – water is converted into hydrogen and oxygen, from which the hydrogen is used to create electrical energy.

[eyewall]

53. Thanks for the clarification.

[garybeck]

50. no, the OP is correct, however

it doesn't explain where the hydrogen is going to come from, which poses a big problem.

fyi...

breaking H20 into hydrogen and oxygen is electrolysis and done by an electrolyzer. this process requires energy input.

combining H2 and O back into water is done with a fuel cell. this process gives off energy.

PS. the Google Chrome spellchecker doesn't seem to know that electrolyzer is a word, but it is.

[NYC_SKP]

62. Energy storage, excess generation, such as from wind turbines at night...

...there's a place for Hydrogen generation in our future energy infrastructure, large scale and small.

It won't be THE solution, just as solar only or geothermal only can be THE solutions.

It's best to think of hydrogen like a battery; as a way to store energy that must come from other sources (renewable or nonrenewable).

There's a whole lot of wind generation potential that occurs at night when there is no demand, and it goes to waste.

Were we to place hydrogen generators at the windfarm sites, they could create hydrogen at night and create electricity when there's a demand.

[truthisfreedom]

44. Here's a list of facts that will help some of you calm down a bit regarding this.

1] Apple may or may not manufacture products that use hydrogen. They're not compelled to manufacture anything just because they get a patent. Patents can simply be strategic, and are sometimes purchased as inexpensive PR.

2] The purpose behind putting a fuel cell into a laptop (or other portable product) is to reduce weight and keep the product operating in extreme situations when it's difficult to recharge. It's not about efficiency. Hydrogen production via electrolysis may be inefficient (or might improve someday) but that's not a big factor when you take into consideration how little power a laptop actually needs to operate continuously.

3] A laptop is not a car. A car will require a great deal of energy so it's not the best use of hydrogen as fuel. My Tesla Roadster burns through as much electricity in 4 hours of 60mph operation as a normal all-electric house uses in 48 hours. Cars require a spectacular amount of energy to operate at high speeds.

4] Hydrogen is the lightest element, produces no pollution when burned or used in a fuel cell, so it actually works pretty nicely for this kind of application, even if it's inefficient to produce.

Everyone calm down. The future is pretty amazing. There's lots of great news regarding solar power. Which means that ultimately, if we need hydrogen for portable power, we'll have it. Cheap.

That is all.

[NYC_SKP]

45. My Tesla Roadster can not run for four hours at 60 miles per hour.

What kind of Tesla Roadster do you have?

[truthisfreedom]

54. Sport 2.0

Roughly 230 mile range between 60-65mph, 60X4 is 240. Hasn't failed me yet. S/N 1204. I'm picking up a Model S next year. I have a complete "road trip" charging kit that lets me charge at 70A anywhere I can access a breaker panel. What's your S/N? If you have a Roadster, I'm sure we've met on TMC.

[Taverner]

47. Hydrogen power might be really effective in small power devices

[mackdaddy]

51. Could use a Metal Hydride for the hydrogen fuel storage.

This is a material which can in simple terms soak up hydrogen like a sponge soaks up water.

Slight heating is required to release the hydrogen for use by the fuel cell stack to make electricity from the hydrogen and oxygen.

They could recharge these fuel storage devices in an external electrolysis unit much like plugging a battery pack into a recharger now, except the hydrogen recharger would break up water into hydrogen and oxygen, and store the hydrogen in the metal hydride tank.

There are also fuel cell designs which can be powered directly from Alcohol. There were prototypes where you put an eyedropper of Vodka and water into your storage tank and your laptop or phone would be powered for hours.

There are also designs to run fuel cell stacks from Anhydrous Ammonia which is also very dense storage of hydrogen.

Toyota and Honda both have an active Fuel Cell Vehicle development program. Both have promotional videos on youtube that have been released in the last few months.

My guess in that they are going for a Metal Hydride storage system, as otherwise it would take a very high (thousands of psi) to store enough hydrogen to be practical.

[Kablooie]

60. And the hydrogen will make devices lighter too! If they don't float away.

[burrowowl]

63. K&R

[Remmah2]

65. Can we buy them by the pair? nt

nt