Police: 1 Dead in Shooting at Copenhagen Free Speech Event

[Bosonic]

Source: AP

A gunman fired on a cafe in Copenhagen as it hosted a free speech event Saturday, killing one man, Danish police said. The event was organized by Swedish artist Lars Vilks, who has faced numerous threats for caricaturing the Prophet Muhammad.

Danish police said the gunman shot through the windows of the Krudttoenden cafe, which the TV2 news channel said were riddled with some 30 bullet holes. Helle Merete Brix, one of the event's organizers, told The Associated Press that Vilks was at the meeting but was not hit.

"I saw a masked man running past," Brix said. "I clearly consider this as an attack on Lars Vilks."

Police were looking for the perpetrators, who they said drove away in a dark Volkswagen Polo after the shooting, which took place shortly before 4 p.m. (1500 GMT, 10 a.m. EST).

Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/reports-shots-fired-copenhagen-cafe-free-speech-event-28967589

---

Copenhagen free speech debate shooting: One dead

Gunmen killed one person and injured three police officers during a free speech debate in Copenhagen attended by a controversial Swedish cartoonist, officials said.

The French ambassador was also present at the debate.

Reports say up to 40 shots were fired during the attack and a manhunt has been launched.

Swedish cartoonist Lars Vilks has faced death threats after drawing caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31472423

[Fred Sanders]

1. Media, please use this handy Deadly Event chart to determine how to cover this:

For example, follow the flow in the 'Deadly Event' Chapel Hill slaying of three Muslim students, the arson of a Muslim community Center in Houston.

[lamp_shade]

7. THIS ^ ^

[Bluenorthwest]

38. Cute chart, but I'm not sure you really want to start citing all the facts. So I will.

There are more hate crimes committed due to a bias against the victim's sexuality than against a victim's religion. Many of those crimes are committed by people who cite their own religion as reason for attacking other people, in the US most of those religious people are Christians but many are Muslim and the press, including the LGBT press, has taken great care to downplay the religious motivations of certain criminals.
Last year, a man cited his religion and a desire to revenge US actions in the Middle East as reason he had executed a few gay men, point blank to the head. Like at least one of his victims, the shooter was a Muslim. New Year's Eve 2013 a man who openly cited his religion and hate for gay people dumped and ignited a can of gasoline in a Seattle gay bar, a Muslim. The press barley covered these crimes and certainly did not emphasize the faith of the criminals, although the criminals sure did.
This sort of list, it goes on and on and on.
Around 1450 hate crimes toward LGBT people a year. Virtually every last one is committed by a heterosexual, and almost all of them are 'of faith'. 6 weeks into the year, there have already been 5 trans women of color murdered in the US. Not a fucking word from the press.
Of the hate crimes in the US motivated by bias toward the victim's religion, 60% are toward Jewish people, 14% toward Muslims. So in 2013 there were about 160 bias crimes against Muslims, about 950 against LGBT and about 875 against Jewish people.

This is not an area you are welcome to exploit. There are thousands of victims of these crimes a year. This issue belongs to them.

[SkyDaddy7]

43. Not sure how to fix these issues...

Not sure how to fix these issues other than time & keep up the call for equality in all aspects of society.

Having said that, as much as i hate to admit it this is America & it is a RELIGIOUS NATION...So, most don't want to criticize other religions then they will be forced to look at their own. IMHO. So, BIGOTS get to hide under this cover & spew their hate more effectively.

[Violet_Crumble]

83. So now someone pointing to a disturbing trend in the US is exploitation?

I don't give a flying fuck what minority a victim of a hate crime is. It's not some fucking competition. Instead of popping up in threads about hate crimes against Muslims and going on about how other groups are more victims than they are, why don't you speak out against all hate crimes equally?

[Bluenorthwest]

100. This thread is about murdred people in Copenhagen.

And having some respect is what I'm talking about. Try it sometime. This is a thread about dead humans. How did that fact escape you?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

51. What's the Fred Sanders motto on how to handle the event?

"Meh, shit happens....", right Fred?

[Fred Sanders]

52. You are misusing the term "motto". Not my chart. Just follow the simple pathways.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

53. No, I think it's pretty apt

Your first response to things like this is always to minimize it to snark. Not even a half-hearted "Gee that's too bad".

[Fred Sanders]

54. It is high class snark, yes? Better than the usual? My thanks for that. Not using truncated sentences is key

[MellowDem]

56. Islam is a bigoted, misogynistic belief system...

And inspires all sorts of terrible acts, just as it condones it in its own books. Just like all the Abrahamic faiths.

Religious privilege is the only reason Islam is treated with kid gloves as an idea. As with other religions.

"Islamophobia" is a stupid term, as it would be akin to saying "fascist phobia". What would be more accurate a term in "Muslimphobia". And yes, there are people out there with irrational fears of Muslims, or who are just xenophobic and racist as well. But Islam, as an idea, is positively terrible.

I'm sick of the media, the President, etc. saying that all Muslims who kill in the name of their religion aren't "true" Muslims, it's dishonest bullshit that's a result of religious privilege. Or that Islam is a religion of peace. Really? Do people read the text?

And I'm sick of every event where a Muslim kills in the name of Islam of having people try to deflect from any criticism of Islam with the bullshit known as "Islamophobia". Islam itself contributes to lots of phobias, homophobia being among them, it's not irrational to think it's an immoral, assholish belief system.

Many people on DU really don't get this, as not only are they steeped in religious privilege, but it's hard for them to see an American minority group as subscribing to bad or conservative ideas under most circumstances, because it doesn't match with their experiences and prejudices.

I think if a person kills in the name of Islam, it should be treated as the hate crime it is, and also be another good opportunity to denounce the terrible ideas of Islam.

[Fred Sanders]

58. Substitute Christian for Muslim in your ridiculous screed and what do you get...a bigot....

"Christianity is a mysoginistic and bigoted belief system".....do you agree with that? It is just a substitute of one religion for another in your own sentence after all.

Frankly your post is more of the standard usual stuff seen everywhere, it is the usual false projection of the deeds of the few.

Back on topic, accurate chart, right?

[Fred Sanders]

62. Truth hurts..the chart is right in and you know it....truth hurts but then it goes away.

[LTX]

63. Please take the time to explain, Fred,

what Israel has to do with this story.

[MellowDem]

79. Your chart is a deflection...

As is your reply. Yeah, Christianity is also bigoted and terrible, but do you see the OP? Your so privileged that it always has to be about your pet issue.

Islam is explitly bigoted and misogynistic. It condones very violent shit. If that's not addressed, it's because of privilege.

[smirkymonkey]

74. +1000

[Rhinodawg]

75. Saved.

can I quote you ?

[passiveporcupine]

76. You mean like gays are killed in Uganda by Christians

Yeah...I thought so.

Yes...there are Muslim radicals. There are also Christian radicals. Even in America. Rick Warren.

[Rhinodawg]

77. I didnt know that Rick Warren..

is committing acts of beheading, torture and murder.

Any pics?

[passiveporcupine]

81. No he just encouraged the kill the gays bill in Uganda

he lets them do the killing for him

[MellowDem]

80. I agree...

That it's very bigoted, irrelevant to the OP.

[JonLP24]

88. Islamaphobia? How do you explain the type of behavior

where two people killed a Sikh shortly after 9/11? I know a Sikh isn't Muslim but they thought he was a Muslim.

You are talking about roughly 2 billion of the world population while the followers of a controversial sect that didn't exist before the 18th century which has many different beliefs & rituals practiced by overall Islam. They even oppose the Hajj.

Ultraconservative, orthodox, right-wing sect & which uses selective fiqh texts in addition to how they interpret what they meant. In addition, the original Wahabbi cult took over Saudi Arabia but given their early divisions with the Muslim majority community (which still exist far more than you probably realize) -- fiqh texts are especially used when it comes to restrictions in how they apply to women.

They were very active in promoting propaganda to improve their image & Wahabbism really boomed during the petroleum export era & I could post much more & share much more information, especially on the propaganda angle -- you know how many books written since Al-Qaeda & The Taliban began that are in use in recruiting propaganda? It is the worst & epic case of oppressors using religion which new sects & splits have been formed in all the big 3 religions during cases of oppression. The "First Christians" sect should probably call themselves Jews.

and I'm sure this major Christian sect split in 1054 has nothing to do with the cold war


To finalize, I have read parts of the Quran. You have to understand, original Arabic translation issues are major problematic even among Islamic scholars & there is a lot referencing events that take place in context to the oppression going on which inspired the Quran (A lot of oppressors using faith) Muhammed himself struggled in non-violence opposition with those oppressors than came a lot of the self-defense stuff that is selective posted & out-of-context. Very first mention of "jihad" says don't fight until they attack you inside the mosques (which the Wahabbis destroy to prevent idolatry based on a warped mention of mere mention not to worship Muhammed images -- there was a lot of that going on by oppressors which explains what led to Eastern Orthodox Christianity in 1054)

Then many don't realize how the era of Islamic jurists and wide variety of fiqh texts and their need to finish the Quran has on current Islam & Wahabbis warped view of what is correct in addition to how they personally interpret it. (I could tell you some stories how some people understood what the bible was really saying but quoting the opinions of people from a very long time ago but Wahabbists and very selective in which opinions from Muhammed to cite & which ones not to cite. In any case, contrast the "Constitution of Medina" compared to who rules over Medina.

[MellowDem]

89. That would be xenophobia or racism...

and Muslimphobia would make more sense then. It's not the beliefs themselves as much as the identity of the believers, after all, many of these racists hold dear to just as violent of a religion.

I understand that there are many Muslims and many ways to interpret Islam, but the foundational texts contain terrible stuff that allows for things like ISIS. And because it's religion, there is no objective way to prove who is right or wrong, ISIS claims are just as legitimate, and that's just a fundamental problem with all religion.

I don't doubt that apologists could bend the texts to have it be compatible with western values, religious texts can be twisted for any use, but that doesn't address the underlying problem.

And in most of the Islamic world, even the "moderate" interpretation is incredibly bigoted and misogynistic.

Progressive reformers of the religion are playing a useless game in the long run. The best outcome is to convince people Islam is wrong, period. We're finally starting to get to that place with Christianity in the US.

[DFW]

2. Too bad. One of my favorite cities in Europe

Two religious crazies had to go ruin things for tens of thousand of peaceful Muslim immigrants, ALL of whom are now suspect.

[riderinthestorm]

3. Thank god nobody was killed! 40 bullets! I hope the wounded recover rapidly

Last edited Sat Feb 14, 2015, 02:21 PM - Edit history (1)

And they find the perpetrators. My guess is they are Muslims unfortunately which will only further tensions.



Edited to acknowledge that one of the wounded has died. Dammit.

[Fred Sanders]

5. No need to guess 'if it is a Muslim', just use the handy Deadly Event Chart of covering Muslims.

[riderinthestorm]

8. Oh ok. This shooting has NOTHING to do with the fatwa against Lars Vilks

Who organized the free speech seminar.

Got it.

[Fred Sanders]

10. What did you get? Not much, I get it. Please see chart.

[riderinthestorm]

12. A Muslim family was attacked in a grocery store yesterday = headlines!!!

How many black folk and GLBT folks were attacked yesterday? Im sure it was a hell of a lot more yet no headliners there.

Sometimes a headline is just a headline that's factual even as its painful. Not everything is Islamophobia even as its become common on DU to smear the media (and fellow DUers) thusly.

[Rhinodawg]

16. I'd be careful...

If you deny Islamophobia, then obviously you're an Islamophobe.

[Violet_Crumble]

84. Why? They weren't denying Islamophobia exists...

They were saying not everything is Islamophobia. Those who do make the claim that it doesn't exist, and especially those who insist that hate sites like religionofpeace.com are speaking the TRUTH!!! are a whole different matter. They're the same sort of ilk as those who insist that anti-Semitism, racism or sexism doesn't exist and then go and prove themselves wrong by linking to sites that hate those groups a lot...

[Fred Sanders]

18. As you say, some 'fellow DU'er's, thankfully few, are no fellows of mine.

[riderinthestorm]

19. Ignore is your friend nt

[Bluenorthwest]

41. Those of you who never, ever speak against the daily hate crimes against LGBT people but who

make huge ruckus about hate crimes against only one specific group, not even the group that is most often victimized, nor most often murdered, that speaks in two ways. It shows a bias for the group that receives advocacy and bias against the groups who are constantly victimized without a word being spoken against it.
People who wish to end hate crimes talk about hate crimes, not just about some hate crimes. Being opposed to bias against your own is not really a virtue. Being opposed to bias in general is a virtue.
I have seen you, Fred, seek to downplay arson attacks on Jewish places. In the following thread 'Paris area synagogue set ablaze' you accused the OP of altering the headline and exaggerating the hate crime. Everyone who reads your posts about hate crimes should read that entire thread for context:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026050140#post8

[7962]

29. Facts mean nothing to some here

Yet the killings in NC HAD to be a hate crime BECAUSE the victims were Muslims.

[Fred Sanders]

39. The FBI is yet another who disagree with some.

[7962]

42. Oh, they've released a report already? Wow, that was fast!

Usually these things take weeks or even months

[Fred Sanders]

44. You released your sarcastic report but you want the FBI to have an actual report ready instantly also?

Chapel Hill police = Ferguson police

[7962]

55. Hey YOU said the FBI "disagreed", so that means they've made a decision

Otherwise, they couldn't agree or disagree with any opinion yet.
But I guess the SECOND shooting in Denmark is probably also just a misunderstanding, right?

[Fred Sanders]

57. You are not in the same league.

[7962]

59. I'm glad I'm not in YOUR league. Putin/Maduro/Muslim apologist isnt my style

But you and your 3-4 partners can keep the rest of us here entertained
Looks like your silly "chart" means nothing in THIS story either.

[Fred Sanders]

60. That would be another 3 swing strikeout....like I said.

[madamvlb]

4. One of the nicest places I have visited in the world....

I was married in Hillerod, a little north of Coppenhagen. I can tell you that the people of this country were so welcoming and warm it really touched me. One of the weirdest places I have visited is also in Coppenhagen, it's a place called Christiania. It's very hard to describe. Lots of hippies, pot, hash and much peace and love....it's a "free city". No photos were allowed. I last visited in 1991 a few years after getting married and can't wait to go back again.

[stillwaiting]

17. I think that "free city" was highlighted on a travel show I saw.

Pretty sure it was with Anthony Bourdain when he was in Copenhagen.

I remember being fascinated with the city of Copenhagen after watching it.

I hope to go someday!

This was interesting too:

[madamvlb]

21. Yes, this is it!

I visited at night, there was heavy fog and two burn barrels burning at the entrance, a large wrought iron sign that says Christiania. It was just surrell. Everyone was stoned, or at least they looked it. I went into a tent and had a special tea....felt good for the rest of the night!

[Paladin]

6. This story will make the pro-gunners' day.

I can hear it now: "See? See? SEE? Even in fucking Copenhagen, it happens!"

Seriously, this the sort of thing that gladdens their hearts.....

[GGJohn]

9. Why would you say something so stupid?

The shooting up of a café is reason to celebrate?
That is some warped thinking there pal.

[christx30]

13. Paladin wasn't saying it was a reason for a rational

person to celebrate. Just a gun nut who would look at this event as more justification for weapons everywhere.

[GGJohn]

14. Paladin needs to clarify this himself,

but given his past postings about gun owners, I suspect that he meant exactly what he said.
But if he wants to clear it up, I'm all ears.

[Paladin]

20. Two things guaranteed to furnish gun enthusiasts with grim satisfaction:

1. A shooting incident in an advanced country with stringent gun control laws. ("See? It happens everywhere!&quot

2. A mass knifing incident, anywhere. ("Guess we better register knives, huh? Haw, haw.&quot

Clear enough for you? And spare me any huffy indignation, OK? Anybody who's hung around DU for any length of time knows how you people respond to things.

[Lurks Often]

22. Anybody who's hung around DU for any length of time knows how you respond to these things.

By jumping to conclusions, making broad brush attacks, not waiting for the whole story and ignoring any facts that don't fit in to your biased worldview.

[Paladin]

33. Oh, you mean not agreeing with you on something.

Yeah, that tends to happen around here.

[Lurks Often]

34. I'd be embarrassed if I agreed with you

Some if us thinks, actual facts, the intent of the law and the Constitution and due process actually mean something.

But since your side has been losing this argument in the courts and the legislatures for the last 20 years, it's understandable that you are upset.

[Paladin]

35. "Some if us thinks" I'm upset? Not on this thread, amigo..... (nt)

[DisgustipatedinCA]

68. True. Congratulations on your side being so far ahead with unabated slaughter

Seriously, I can't fucking believe I'm responding to a post cheerleading the slaughter of innocents over the last 20 years. There are some blood-soaked subhumans on this site.

[Lurks Often]

69. I have no patience for the hypocrisy and dishonesty of gun control extremists

Your side might have more credibility if you were actually concerned about reducing ALL murders, instead of focusing on just the ones committed with firearms. Or are those who are murdered by knives, blunt objects and bare hands unimportant to you?

[Paladin]

71. That's a weak effort, even by your standards. (nt)

[DisgustipatedinCA]

73. I don't submit myself to judgment by the likes of you.

But I'll answer your question anyway. We need to focus on the serious public health crisis of death by gun. Death by knife, fist, or other means of violence does not constitute a public health crisis. Anyone arguing that point is really stupid, a liar, or some of both. Good day, gunboi.

[Lurks Often]

78. Doubling down on your hypocrisy and lies I see

Murders are at 20 year lows DESPITE more guns in the public hands then at any point in history, so the gun control extremist's state that more guns = more murders is an outright lie.

And as usual, when a gun controller doesn't like how the conversation is going, he resorts to name calling.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

82. Tiresome process. Go ahead and point out my lies.

This should be interesting. You do understand what a lie is, yes? And therefore, since you've accused me of doing so, you'll be able to point out what you're talking about with, you know, words and citations and stuff like that. And let me know when you want to make it interesting. I'm always ready to take a couple hundred off a fool.

[Lurks Often]

87. Let's review the number of murders since 1960

The number of murders per year hasn't been this low since 1969:

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

Here is some CDC data for you:
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

In 2013 there were 2.6 million deaths and 11,208 homicides using a firearm, so that means homicides committed with a firearm amounts to 0.43 percent of the deaths in the United States using the 2013 data from the CDC.
If we add suicides (21,175 using a firearm) the number of deaths from homicide and suicide is 1.25 percent of the deaths. The CDC data also shows that roughly just under a third of homicides (4,913) in the U.S. were caused by other then firearm or by an unspecified method.

Murder worldwide:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#By_country

Sorted by rate, the U.S. comes in at 111, sorted by total, the U.S. is 8th with Brazil and India having 3 times the total number of murders.

[marym625]

90. Not sure what you counted

But total deaths from firearms in 2013 is 66,805

That's

Accidental discharge non- transport 505
Intentional self inflicted. 21,175
Assault (homicide) 11,208
Undetermined intent 281
Injury by firearm that caused
Other problems that ended in death 33,636

That's 66,805. That's OK with you?

[Lurks Often]

94. I counted homicides and suicides by firearm

compared to the overall number of deaths in the United States. Even using your above numbers, it remains a very small percentage of deaths in the U.S.

Perhaps you should spend more time on fixing the social and economic problems that cause crime and developing a way of improving our mental health system without violating patient privacy rights.

Since 1994, the attempts to ban an inanimate object have resulted in a nearly constant stream of losses in the courts and the legislatures and if you believe Bill Clinton, gave control of the House to the Republicans after 40 years of Democratic control and for the first time since the Civil War, cost a sitting Speaker of the House his seat (Tom Foley).

[marym625]

96. seriously?

That's your response?

No point in continuing a conversation with someone who discounts preventable deaths.

[Lurks Often]

97. Most deaths are preventable

And there is no point in continuing a conversation with someone who blames objects instead of people or resurrects a 2 week old thread in a vain attempt to prove a point

[marym625]

98. Just curious

How is it that you are against gun laws but you want to blame people for using an inanimate object that is meant for one purpose, killing?

So it isn't the gun that accidentally goes off or is used intentionally to kill. It isn't the weapon that is more likely to cause death than any other inanimate object. But it isn't the people so there's no reason for gun laws.

It's an act of god that some asswipe takes a weapon into a theater and shoots and kills some guy for using a cell phone. It is just mother nature that made some crazy m-f'er shoot up a theater full of people. It's Buddha that causes children to pick up weapons and kill another child or themselves when mommy or daddy leave a weapon lying around.

All death is preventable? I hope you write up your findings in every reputable medical journal. Can you write up how we stop aging too?

[marym625]

99. Not in vain. I made my point

Sorry, I didn't realize there was a time limit on responding to posts. Good to know

[marym625]

91. better yet

Let's take a look at the cause of death in homicides with firearms by age group. We'll just look at the age groups where homicide is in the top 5 causes of death. That's ages 1 to 34.











Main page to pull this from


http://webappa.cdc.gov/cgi-bin/broker.exe


Give me a few minutes and I will post suicides.

[marym625]

92. Now let's review the top causes of death by suicide

In the age groups 10 to 54, suicide is in the top 5, ages 55 to 64 it's in the top 10








I will be happy to put up the numbers for accidental deaths if you like.

Skew the statistics anyway you like. To try to make it sound like the numbers are negligible or insignificant so you are justified in having no gun laws, no permits, etc is ridiculous. Someone can't help dying from cancer. But each and every single one of the deaths from guns was completely preventable.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

93. Excellent numbers. This one did a hit-and-run after accusing me of lying.

I still haven't received any reports iterating what lies I've told, and I don't expect that will be happening. Guns are a straight-up public health problem. Proof: just ask anyone who works in public health.

Anyway, great post.

[marym625]

95. Thanks

Yeah, I saw his post about West Virginia passing a no permit conceal and carry law and how great that is, but it was in the gun group. So this was a better place to talk about gun deaths.

[Pooka Fey]

70. Tom Tomorrow put this in a cartoon

Link to cartoon after Charlie Hebdo shootings, in case you missed it

https://medium.com/the-nib/charlie-hebdo-let-the-hot-takes-begin-4d20a5879e8a

Thought you might appreciate it.

[Paladin]

72. Tom Tomorrow very rarely fails to satisfy. Thanks form posting. (nt)

[hack89]

37. He thinks all gun owners are irrational nuts.

he defines gun nut as anyone that disagrees with him about gun control.

[Duckhunter935]

30. That is just a sick statement

[Rhinodawg]

11. I'm against these attacks.

but i think we all understand why this happens.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

23. Actually, we don't know why it happened

but we can pretty much guess why it happened. Some right wing nut doesn't understand that his crazy religion can't control free speech in a democracy.

But...maybe I'm wrong.

[Rhinodawg]

24. Well..."some people" seem to have a problem with freedoms

?w=675





Of course this has nothing to do with any religion.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

25. All people groups, ethnicities, religions, etc.

have their strengths and weaknesses, imo.

Unfortunately, some of the weaknesses of some religious groups is their inability to get along with concepts like free speech that benefit everyone in the long run. Thankfully, most folks are capable of adaptation.

[Rhinodawg]

27. Funny word to use..."adaptation".

I don't see that word to often in this regard. Thanks.

[still_one]

28. Actually if people from other countries have an issue with free speech, then they should not

immigrate to countries that do

[7962]

31. Brilliant!! And this should be shouted from the mountaintops!!!!!!!!!

Bill Clinton pointed this out not too long ago with his statement

[still_one]

32. I agree with him

[GGJohn]

49. Very well said. eom.

[seveneyes]

15. A Crusade against free speech?

Stranger things have happened.

[christx30]

45. I have, sadly, seen it.

People that were saying that Charlie Hebdo brought the attack on themselves.

[riderinthestorm]

46. Yep. More than a few DUers said that.

[Blue_Tires]

67. +1

Along with some high-profile useful idiots in the blogosphere...

[brooklynite]

26. CNN reporting multiple gunmen; 3 police injured

[brooklynite]

36. Update: CNN reported suspects made getaway; car found near subway station

[father founding]

40. just sayin

Jag är Lars

[Bosonic]

47. Shots fired outside Copenhagen synagogue: report

#BREAKING Shots fired outside Copenhagen synagogue: report

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/566752714638757891

[Bosonic]

48. Danish Police say one person has been shot in the head at a synagogue in central Copenhagen

Danish Police say one person has been shot in the head at a synagogue in central #Copenhagen and two policemen have been injured by gunfire

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/566753408607330304

[happyslug]

50. Where did the shooter get an AUTOMATIC weapon?

The Article clearly says this was an AUTOMATIC WEAPON. i.e Submachine gun or an Assault Rifle (I suspect a submachine gun, but I can NOT even clearly rule out a true Machine gun). I lean to a submachine gun, for it is possible to shoot long bursts of submachine fire i.e. 8 to 10 rounds and hit something, while out of an assault rifle, the preferred effective rate of fire is about three (More then that you end up shooting into the air (This is do to the more powerful rounds that assault rifles used as compared to the pistol rounds under in a sub machine gun).

Since 1986 no NEW automatic weapons can be sold to the General Public. Then Existing Automatic weapons in civilian hands are still legal to own (But do to the inability to buy new one, the price of these existing automatics in the US have gone through the roof).

No Automatic Weapon are legal in Europe EXCEPT if owned by the Police or Military. Thus the big question how did this shooter get the AUTOMATIC WEAPON? He could not ship it from the US, for it would have been detected in any aircraft search. That leaves Europe and the Middle East,

I can NOT exclude Western Europe. We have reports that the CIA did arm certain groups to act as resistance groups if and whenever the Soviet Red Army attacked Europe. These groups were given weapons as late as the 1960s, but they IDs were covered up in case the Soviets did get their hands on whoever the CIA was arming (The groups were given the weapons BUT a list of where they kept them, who were member of each group were NOT kept, but these were all right wing groups).

When the Soviet Union Collapsed, everything East of Berlin was for sale, thus it was possible for people to buy weapons in the 1990s up to and including tanks. Most opt for personal weapons and other weapons they could hide, but again no records.

The Middle East is also known for less then stringent policy when it comes to weapons to terrorists. A little hard for them to get such weapons to Europe given the number of borders such a weapon would have to travel, but possible.

I lean to a Right Wing Danish Group. Either weapons from the CIA from the days of the Cold War, or purchased them during the 1990s as the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact collapsed. Everyone involved will cover it up, either way is an embarrassment to the EU as a whole. Thus we may NEVER find the Weapon or the Shooter.

I kept reading reports of a "Black Rifle" being used. The best known "Black Rifle" is the M16. Denmark is using a Canadian version of the M16. That brings up the question could this have been stolen from the Danish Army or Police?:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Canada_C7_rifle

[7962]

65. Criminals dont have trouble getting weapons. Look at the Paris attacks; same thing

I seriously doubt this weapon is going to be an M16. More likely a shorter barrel weapon thats easier to hide.
And it looks like they've found the shooter now, so we may find out what weapons he had. He was on a terror watch list.

[Pooka Fey]

66. Border control in Europe has been mostly privatized

I just thumbed through 4 back issues of "Marianne" and I can't find the exact article to post a link. The gist of the article was that this private enterprise charged with border control, "Frontex", is hopelessly underfunded and under-equipped by the various EU governments to fulfill the scope of the mission.

Which is why several EU nations are less than thrilled with the results of the common border (Schengen).

[Pooka Fey]

64. Very sad and less than 6 weeks after the Charlie Hebdo shooting

Attempts by some to shut down the discussion of others by instantly shouting "BIGOTRY", in order to prevent anyone from identifying a commonality between these two crimes* is called "obscuration" i.e. concealment. Those doing the shouting down insist that we as human beings are incapable of distinguishing between ordinary people who practice the Mulism faith and the proponents of Radical Islam. Which is pretty darn insulting.

Because of this "obscuration", any meaningful analysis of this social and political problem by thoughtful people that might happen, is preemptively "shut down" and drowned out beneath a tidal wave of pathos, suffering, and passion.

*the Charlie Hebdo crime of January 7th and this recent event organized by Lars Vilks

Cheers

[Behind the Aegis]

85. It was what popped in my head.

Media attack, then Jews, then police. Very familiar. As familiar, the excuses and distractions being thrown up as a "defense" of those who weren't even victims.

[Pooka Fey]

86. An ill wind that blows nobody good

[mwrguy]

101. "Free speech" or hate speech?