Maduro claims Venezuela has detained Americans for 'espionage'
Source: CNN
Caracas (CNN)Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro said Saturday an unspecified number of Americans were arrested "a few days ago" for engaging in espionage and recruitment activities.
The President said they included an American pilot of Latin American origin, arrested in the southwest border state of Táchira.
He said the pilot was found in possession of "all kinds of documents" and was being interrogated by the authorities, though he did not identify him. The Venezuelan government has made many similar claims in recent years, without ever substantiating them.
Maduro also announced Saturday a series of measures, including visa requirements for U.S. citizens and the downsizing of the U.S. Embassy in Caracas, to counteract what he called U.S. "interference" in his country.
Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/28/americas/venezuela-us-pilot/
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libdem4life
(13,877 posts)poor, mostly brown with all the wealth in the .0001%. This has been going on since the Civil War. Here's my url that becomes appropriate all too often these days.
FROM WOUNDED KNEE TO SYRIA:
A CENTURY OF U.S. MILITARY INTERVENTIONS
http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventions.html
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)....somehow he never does. Hasn't he learned the value of a good Show Trial?
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)that Ever Happened to the US...regardless of their Black Ops activities. Don't tell me you don't know what Black Ops are. We don't even know where that money comes from, although the general thought is that it's from confiscated Contraband, you know.
I'm against us being bullies in that region...period. They do not threaten our existence. They are brown, which qualifies for our "inferiors" and we all know it...just sounds tacky to say it. I've known many people from that region while living and working 25 years in LA County. It's the perennial..."You just don't get it." And the LA County Sheriff's office is the worst of all.
Proof? Ask the CIA about how forthcoming they are about their "activities". And they are down there. If he did have Proof and put on a Show Trial down there, you can bet it wouldn't make it on the MSM. Give me a break. You're a regular poster on DU and don't know that?
I'm not anti-American, so don't throw that one out, either. I'm anti-war, anti-meddling, anti-controlling itty bitty countries, etc. I can love my country and still hate some of the things it does. This qualifies for that category.
nyabingi
(1,145 posts)...would it even make a difference to people who feel that the US is ultimately a force for good, exceptional, and can never do wrong? Of course not.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)nyabingi
(1,145 posts)you'll see that what they uncovered was a very detailed plan, with dates, targets to be bombed, names, the whole kit and kaboodle. I don't think Maduro's government has to prove anything to Americans who invariably think we're not screwing with them. Obama's administration has already stepped forward and called the coup charges "ludicrous", but they are not "ludicrous" in the least. We were caught, once again, trying to undermine an established democracy in Latin American, plain and simple.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Anyone can make up a bullshit story, which is what this is.
nyabingi
(1,145 posts)It looks like they discovered some well-laid plans from direct evidence. They didn't discover "allegations", they discovered "evidence". Are you in doubt as to the fact that the US is actively engaged in trying to undermine Venezuelan democracy?
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)That doesn't appear to constitute actual evidence to me. I could have made that crap up in 45 minutes. Maduro and his thugs are not held accountable to anyone. They can and will, manufacture false claims to maintain their power. They, and those who support them, have left democracy and good governance behind. They are as bad, or worse, than what they replaced, which was plenty bad.
Based in Venezuela?
Right. pull the other one, it's got bells.
nyabingi
(1,145 posts)any other American-based website that has an obvious bias. The right-wing controls the media and they have been opposed to Chavez and Maduro by spreading lies and demonizing the reforms they started. This is why TeleSUR was one of the intended targets of the this latest failed coup attempt.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)Glad to see you're drinking the koolaid.
nyabingi
(1,145 posts)GGJohn
(9,951 posts)Adrahil
(13,340 posts)... A wide of variety of media available on the U.S.
uhnope
(6,419 posts)
SkyDaddy7
(6,045 posts)Stop going to Venezuela...It looks like Americans are going to be used as pawns to distract from this regimes obvious crimes. SAD.
Of course, America has a bad history in S. America where we participated in some horrible crimes but for some reason when America has a history with a country in which it has done something wrong certain factions here on DU see that as a green light for the dictators & dictator wannabes in that country to act any way they choose! WTF!??! I have never understood this as long as I have been on DU? They criticize America for abandoning Liberal principles but cheer on the ugly to most brutal regimes on the planet as long as they are anti-American. Confusing.
Archae
(47,245 posts)And the "Maduro can do no wrong" groupies are already here...
Tarheel_Dem
(31,454 posts)January 02, 2015 2:20 PM
CARACAS, VENEZUELA—
Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro's approval rating has slipped to 22 percent, the lowest of his nearly two-year rule, as a result of economic problems, a local pollster said Friday.
Maduro, 52, won election to replace his mentor, Hugo Chavez, after the latter's death from cancer in early 2013, but has seen his popularity eroded since then as the OPEC nation suffers an economic slowdown, product shortages and soaring prices.
"His popularity has gone down a lot. He's at 22 percent approval. People are waiting for solutions,'' Datanalisis director Jose Antonio Gil told local TV station Globovision.
Recession-hit Venezuela has the worst economic performance of any major nation in the region, with widespread shortages of goods from milk to car parts and 64 percent annual inflation.
http://www.voanews.com/content/venezuela-maduro-approval-rating-lowest-point/2583540.html
He's desperate to get Venezuelans to look anyplace other than him. The Evil Empire is the cause of all your misery. Scenes like this can't be helping:
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)Just what the hell are we even there for? Any clue? Their WMDs? Protecting our borders? I call it brainwashing while meddling and "intervening" pure and simple.
Archae
(47,245 posts)And by "we" I mean the CIA or whatever else "secret agent men," the "Maduro can do no wrong" groupies make up out of whole cloth.
Maduro is doing just fine on his own running that country into the sewer.
Every time I turn around I see more of the left-wing versions of a banana republic.
Rule by decree.
Paramilitary goon squads.
Anti-"the enemy" propaganda that has no basis in reality.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)make a habit of posting their itinerary on the internet. What you say about these countries is often true, but many times we have taken out a democratically elected official...just because he might be leftist...or with accusations the elections were "fixed". Even George Bush pulled that one...here and there. Ask Al Gore how that goes.
WTH. I'm Leftist and think there are still a few left on DU that are. Our feeble excuse of transplanting of Democracy by Force hasn't ever worked but it does just happen to support Empire and handy air bases...800 or so...which is not Democracy by definition.
I continue to say...it's none of our business. And don't get me started on the drug trade, either.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)It's like "commies" in the Cold War. Just drop the word, and a segment will believe anything.
Don't get me wrong, the U.S. has a long history of destructive interventions. But that doesn't mean every allegation is true.
In fact, I'm willing to bet this one is complete bullshit.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)What I don't get is the fury...Geez you'd think Hillary had said it or something. Do we have Venezuela Deranged Syndrome going here?
LiberalLovinLug
(14,689 posts)but...."I'm willing to bet this one is complete bullshit"
Wow.You are a case in self-delusion.
nyabingi
(1,145 posts)The majority of the people support Maduro and the reforms made by Chavez, and the loud, violent, right-wing minority of wealthy people there can't win at the ballot box so they are relying on underhanded methods to have their way.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)then why is his approval rating down to 22%?
Or is that a US plot also?
nyabingi
(1,145 posts)will have no bearing on whether the people of the country will defend him should the right-wingers try to undermine their democracy. There are many people there who don't care to return to the bad old days that Obama and people like you want to see.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)the Maduro govt., him and his lackeys are doing a bang up job of tanking the economy all by themselves.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)And no... I don't believe Obama particularly gives a crap if Maduro stays in power or not. His nation is circling the drain in any case due to his party's complete incompetence.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)The Revolution Will Not Be Televised (Spanish: La revolución no será transmitida), also known as Chávez: Inside the Coup, is a 2003 documentary focusing on events in Venezuela leading up to and during the April 2002 coup d'état attempt, which saw President Hugo Chávez removed from office for two days. With particular emphasis on the role played by Venezuela's private media, the film examines several key incidents: the protest march and subsequent violence that provided the impetus for Chávez's ousting; the opposition's formation of an interim government headed by business leader Pedro Carmona; and the Carmona administration's collapse, which paved the way for Chávez's return. The Revolution Will Not Be Televised was directed by Irish filmmakers Kim Bartley and Donnacha Ó Briain. Given direct access to Chávez, the filmmakers intended to make a fly-on-the-wall biography of the president. They spent seven months filming in Venezuela, following Chávez and his staff and interviewing ordinary citizens. As the coup unfolded on 11 April, Bartley and Ó Briain filmed on the streets of the capital, Caracas, capturing footage of protesters and the erupting violence. Later, they filmed many of the political upheavals inside Miraflores, the presidential palace.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Revolution_Will_Not_Be_Televised_(film)
2002 Venezuelan coup d'état attempt
In 2002, Washington is claimed to have approved and supported a coup against the Venezuelan government. Senior officials, including Special Envoy to Latin America Otto Reich and convicted Iran-contra figure and George W. Bush "democracy 'czar'" Elliott Abrams, were allegedly part of the plot. Top coup plotters, including Pedro Carmona, the man installed during the coup as the new president, began visits to the White House months before the coup and continued until weeks before the putsch. The plotters were received at the White House by the man President George W. Bush tasked to be his key policy-maker for Latin America, Special Envoy Otto Reich. It has been stated by Rodrigo Guevara of a Spanish language blog that Reich was the U.S. mastermind of the coup.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)Do you have any evidence that the Obama Admin is continuing the policies of the Boosh admin. policies?
7962
(11,841 posts)Last edited Sun Mar 1, 2015, 10:22 AM - Edit history (1)
Every time I ask for actual proof, all I get is, (1) silence, (2) events that happened over 40 years ago, (3), events that happened during the Boosh Admin., or, (4), pure opinion or supposition.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)To believe that just because we have a Democrat president that things change in our government.
We have a long long history of interference with South America. And it spans all administrations democrat or republican.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)carried on where the Boosh admin left off in Venezuela?
zeemike
(18,998 posts)From the MSM?...Or should I go down there and find out for myself?
You have the naive belief that when the new president comes in everything changes...that is bullshit. The government is much too big for any one man to change it significantly. And most of the people in the government are the same ones that was in under Bush.
The last president that tried to change that died in Dallas in 63.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts) zeemike
(18,998 posts)And that past is prolog.
And that anyone who thinks that things like that completely change when we get a new president is just living in a delusion.
But I am open to discussing it, show me what policy has changed toward Venezuela by this administration.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)libdem4life
(13,877 posts)GGJohn
(9,951 posts)Why can't any of you produce ANY proof?
Or is it that the proof is there is no proof?
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)Main article: CIA activities in Canada
Main article: CIA activities in Mexico
Caribbean
See Radio Swan for a Caribbean radio station generally associated with the US and Honduras, and, during the Bay of Pigs Invasion, apparently to assist with covert communications. After the invasion failed, however, it changed to a generally anti-Castro, but not inciting to revolution, station until 1968.
In 1962, a Special National Intelligence Estimate addressed "The threat to US security interests in the Caribbean area.[1] Potential threats were seen as "Threats to US interests could arise from a variety of sources: the vulnerability of the area to attack from outside the hemisphere; the establishment of a military presence within the area by hostile powers; attempts by the Communist powers, with the help of the present Cuban Government, to spread Communist revolution to other parts of the area by military action or subversion; the growth of indigenous radical nationalism; and instability rising from attempts by governments in the area to interfere in the affairs of their neighbors or to impose their will upon them." It foreshadowed the potential of the Cuban Missile Crisis with the general assessment "the USSR can and probably will augment its naval, air, and communications capabilities in the area by the development of arrangements or facilities not openly identifiable as Soviet military bases. For example, the improvement of Cuban naval and air installations would provide facilities suitable for Soviet use, and special installations and arrangements could be set up for intelligence collection or subversive purposes."
Main article: CIA activities in Cuba
Main article:
CIA activities in the Dominican Republicain article:
CIA activities in Haiti
Main article: CIA activities in Jamaica
Main article: CIA activities in Puerto Rico
Central America
Main article: CIA activities in Guatemala
Main article: CIA activities in Honduras
Main article: CIA activities in Nicaragua
Main article: CIA activities in Panama
South America
Main article: CIA activities in Guyana
Main article: CIA activities in Bolivia
Main article: CIA activities in Brazil
Main article: CIA activities in Chile
Main article: CIA activities in Colombia
Main article: CIA activities in Peru
Main article: CIA activities in Venezuela
Main article: CIA activities in Argentina
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_the_Americas
'Summary
Fueled by the Cold War and transnational corporate interests, the U.S. has covertly tinkered with the governments of Latin American countries since World War 2, producing an extremely violent and unstable political climate. This history gives context to the growing anti-Americanism in Latin America, most visibly illustrated in the open defiance of Venezuela’s Hugo Chavez and Bolivia’s Evo Morales to US policy. It also gives context to the recent trend in Latin America to elect left-wing governments."
Venezuela: Recent U.S. intervention in Venezuela manifests itself as millions of dollars in contributions to political opponents of leftist President Hugo Chavez. The short-lived 2002 coup d’etat that kidnapped the democratically elected president was orchestrated by groups who had received funding from the U.S. National Endowment for Democracy (NED). When the opposition took power, they dissolved all of Venezuela’s democratic institutions, including the National Assembly, the Supreme Court, the Constitution, the General Attorney, and the Public Defender’s office. Meanwhile, their plan promised a return to free market economic policies. The coup only lasted two days before a popular resistance reinstated Chavez.
Thus we just wiped off our hands and left...Adios...lock, stock and CIA. Right.
Comments? I'm doing research for you just this one time. The Google is your friend.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)is subverting the Ven. Govt?
And Maduro's claim that they've captured an American pilot involved in a coup plot?
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)GGJohn
(9,951 posts)Kudos.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)
zeemike
(18,998 posts)The MSM?
But we do know about the past, and it goes way past the Bush administration...and in fact goes way back and was revealed by General Smedley Butler in his book War is a Racket.
And it is naive to think that it all changed when we got Obama...as if Obama had a magic wand that made it all go away.
But you show me where Obama has changed his foreign policy towards them. You have to be a little delusional to think that 100 years of policy has changed just because of Obama being president.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)
zeemike
(18,998 posts)My contention is that past is prologue, and we have a 100 year history of meddling in South America that has a ton of proof that surely you know about...if not then you should brush up on your history concerning South America.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)but that doesn't mean that's happening now in Venezuela, so, once again, can you say definitively that we are subverting the Maduro govt?
zeemike
(18,998 posts)And we will not know about it until it is all over this time too...after it is over they don't give a shit if we know because we can't do anything about it then...and then we are told it is not happening this time...in short, don't look back, things are different this time.
And sense Americans have a short attention span they can run this game on us over and over.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)It would seem that you're saying that because we don't know, then it must be so.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)And I challenge you to show us that we have stopped doing it...when there is no evidence that we have...or ever will.
You seem to suggest that Obama is this all powerful force that changed everything, when in fact he changed nothing in our policies toward South America.
Show me where he changed any policy toward them.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)zeemike
(18,998 posts)Because the nature of subversion is that it must be kept secret until the task is finished.
And once it is finished then if it is revealed you can just say that was before and it is different now...because of Obama.
As of Obama had a magic wand that he waved and it all came to a halt.
But I challenge you to provide evidence that we have changed our position on Venezuela...I don't see it at all.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)zeemike
(18,998 posts)And we have never found out about it until it was accomplished...gee I wonder why that is?
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)zeemike
(18,998 posts)And we have a long and bloody past to go on.
That is unless you can show us how Obama changed 100 years of historical meddling in South America...and I see no change at all.
newthinking
(3,982 posts)http://www.democracynow.org/2013/4/24/the_world_is_a_battlefield_jeremy
So, I called it Dirty Wars because there is no such thing as a clean war, and drone warfare is not clean, but also as a sort of allusion to how we’ve returned to the kind of 1980s way of waging war, where the U.S. was involved in all these dirty wars in Central and Latin America, in Guatemala, Nicaragua, Honduras, and beyond. And we’re using—you know, we’re in a world right now where the U.S. is using proxies, that effectively are death squads, in Somalia to hunt down people that the U.S. has determined are enemies. We’re using mercenaries. President Obama continues to use mercenary forces in various wars, declared and undeclared, around the world. You also have the aiding of dictatorships and other, you know, right-wing governments around the world and propping them up. It’s very similar to what Reagan and company were doing in Central America.
Judi Lynn
(164,124 posts)GGJohn
(9,951 posts)I doubt Pres. Obama gives 2 craps about Maduro and his lackeys, he has more pressing problems on his hands.
newthinking
(3,982 posts)and many of the players are still there, while it appears that the neocons still have ways of toying with the world.
The entire military industrial complex has been working a certain way for many years and a single president won't (easily) change that (even if he/she actually wanted to).
But if you actually WATCH one of Scahill's documentaries he clearly outlines and provides the evidence that we use more covert military than ever before, and some of that change occurred during Obama's watch.
I am not going to spend an hour finding specific details just so you don't have to watch or read the many works on this.
Just look up Jeremy Scahill. The man has potentially put his life in danger and his work is well recognized even amongst much of the mainstream.
Judi Lynn
(164,124 posts)then trying to fight with people from their foundation of a complete vacuum, armed with nothing but corporate "news" propaganda.
One wishes they would inform themselves so they would understand, and stop trying to disrupt what would otherwise be worthwhile conversations.
Looking at customer reviews of Scahill's book, Dirty Wars: The World Is A Battlefield, I found this one I appreciated:
Understanding America's predicament
By Jockular on May 23, 2013
Format: Hardcover Verified Purchase
In the last 24 hours, the beheading of a UK soldier in London, Obama's speech on policy re drones/special ops./perpetual global warfare, AND I've read a good chunk of "Dirty Wars". The 3rd has made the first 2 much more understandable.
In Obama's speeches, there's a curious tone of "If I ran this place, things would be different." Well, he DOES run this place, or should! He's not paid to bemoan problems, but to tackle and solve them. Why is he only today - well into the 5th year of his presidency - talking about reigning in use of drones,special ops, and the global reach of JSOC (Joint Special Operations Command) way beyond established battlefields?
And why is Obama going public on these issues now, after months of stonewalling? Is the constitutional lawyer in Obama being reborn - long after the extra-judicial drone-murder in Yemen of US citizens Anwar Awlaki and his 15 year old son? murder in untold countries of foreigners merely suspected of supporting or harboring "terrorists"? (Before you reject what I am saying, read Scahill's account of Awlaki's behavior. It doesn't match what Obama said today.)
Scahill's book convinces me that Obama DOESN'T run things, can't control what JSOC does with its $8 billion annual secret budget, and with "cover" from who knows where in the Pentagon. While Obama's speech suggests presidential approval of each and every operation, Scahill tells a different story -- based on many interviews with officers who built and worked in the special ops world which Cheney, Rumsfeld and their neo-cons have fashioned.
More:
http://www.amazon.com/Dirty-Wars-The-World-Battlefield/dp/156858671
[center]~ ~ ~[/center]
This looks far too helpful to ignore. Thanks.
COLGATE4
(14,886 posts)I mean day before yesterday he was going to be attached by Colombian paramilitaries, a few days ago he fought off "Operation Jericho" where dissident Venezuelans were going to fly a plane disguised up like a Venezuean bomber which was supposed to bomb several targets in Caracas, today it's catching Americans engaging in espionage and recruitment. Who knows what tomorrow will bring!!! Stay tuned- tomorrow, same time, same channel.
Judi Lynn
(164,124 posts)Uribe admits anti-Chavez plot planned in Colombia (For those who never knew)
Mon, Dec 19, 2005 - Page 7
Uribe admits anti-Chavez plot planned in Colombia
AFP , SANTA MARTA, COLOMBIA
Venezuelan former soldiers plotted against President Hugo Chavez's government at a Colombian military building, Colombian President Alvaro Uribe said.
Uribe made the stunning disclosure on Saturday at the Caribbean resort town of Santa Marta where he is meeting with Chavez, and after analyzing documents furnished by Chavez.
"The Venezuelan soldiers who are in Bogota went to a building to meet with members of the Colombian military. President Chavez gave us these documents ... we analyzed them and this morning I said to President Chavez: `I must tell you the truth: this is a building of Colombia's public forces,'" he said.
Uribe said that intelligence efforts against the Venezuelan government are conducted in the building, and took full responsibility for the affair.
The two presidents met for six hours amid a climate of unusual goodwill on Saturday to discuss the purported Bogota-based conspiracy against the Venezuelan president, which Chavez first disclosed to his Colombian counterpart during a meeting in Venezuela on Nov. 24.
Seven Venezuelans involved in a 48-hour coup against Chavez in April 2002 have been linked to the new plot. Businessman Pedro Carmona, leader of the failed military-civilian coup, enjoys political asylum in Colombia, where he is working as a university professor.
Uribe refused asylum to six Venezuelan soldiers involved in the coup but gave them permission to live in Colombia while they look for safe haven in another country.
He said on Saturday that he takes responsibility for the events.
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2005/12/19/2003285082
http://www.democraticunderground.com/110828629
COLGATE4
(14,886 posts)knew about a plot against Maduro.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)
Try something a little bit more recent.
7962
(11,841 posts)If only someone would've overthrown Kim Il Sung, Korea would be unified. Look what happened when the communists were overthrown in Europe; unified Germany.
Maybe when people are starving in the streets everyone will come together to support the obvious need for change. But that will happen when the elections come. Unless MADuro tries to circumvent them, which is highly likely.
George Osborne
(13 posts)All of the oil exporting nations that are not apart of the US hegemony are having a difficult time dealing with the falling oil prices instigated by the OPEC with the support of the US. Mexico is another example of this problem.
These countries have seen what the US can do to unfriendly, though legally elected governments, Chile for example and they have turned to China, not the US for help. The US has never really helped countries that are going socialist and, as history has shown support mostly military intervention and regime change.
China on the other hand has provided necessary infrastructure and money to help people not corporations and is causing great consternation in the US.
The other and very important reason for US interference is these countries is that they are starting to deal in real money and gold, not the US dollar which is a worthless as the paper its printed on.
So this is really a battle to save the Dollar as the currency of trade and the BRICK nations are not using the Dollar this puts pressure on Washington because without the dollar being the worlds reserve currency the US will lose the Empire, something much of the world devoutly wishes.
So this is really part of the reason the tremendous drop in oil prices to destroy these ''socialists'' government. The US is fighting these wars for the oil to fight more wars.
The following is from; http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles/2014-12-12/with-oil-prices-falling-venezuela-needs-china-more-than-ever
Falling Oil Prices Push Venezuela Deeper Into China's Orbit
Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro had a Plan B in the event the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries declined to back his country’s proposal to cut output to boost prices.
The day after OPEC’s Nov. 27 decision to maintain production at current levels, a move that drove oil prices to new lows, a somber-looking Maduro went on national television to tell the Venezuelan people he was dispatching Finance Minister Rodolfo Marco Torres to Beijing. Torres spent the first week of December in China, during which he tweeted photos of his meetings with Chinese officials and bankers.
Continuamos trabajo en Beijing. Reunidos con el Sr Zhou Xiaochuan, Gobernador del Banco Popular de China y directores pic.twitter.com/V8yolUrjsA
— Rodolfo Marco Torres (@RMarcoTorres) December 4, 2014
Video: Mexico Cuts 2015 Spending on Oil Price Outlook (Spanish)
The late Hugo Chávez cozied up to China as part of his drive to curb U.S. influence in the Americas. Maduro, like his predecessor, has relied on Beijing to underwrite Venezuela’s flagging socialist revolution and finance the country’s gaping fiscal deficits (this year’s shortfall could amount to 15 percent of gross domestic product). Without loans from the Chinese, Maduro’s government might not have been able to weather a deep economic crisis. Under his watch, Venezuelans have had to put up with massive shortages of basic goods, the world’s highest inflation rate, and a steep currency devaluation.
Beijing has so far been happy to oblige Maduro. Since 2007, China has advanced Venezuela about $46 billion in loans repayable in oil, of which about $20 billion has been repaid. The latest loan agreement was in July, when Chinese President Xi Jinping visited the country and pledged $5.69 billion in credits.
Now Maduro needs more. The price of Venezuela’s market basket of crude and petroleum products is now skirting $60 a barrel. Many analysts estimate that the Maduro government needs a price of $120 a barrel to avoid cutting back or postponing spending commitments.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)an American pilot involved in a coup attempt against him?
George Osborne
(13 posts)Maduro knows full well that regime change is something the US is famous for, and usually ends up badly for the people. Just ask the dead and displaced in Iraq and Libya if they are better now or when under sectarian dictatorships where women could be come educated and didn't hide behing a tent with holes for the eyes.
Both of these countries were only taken down because they no longer wanted to use the dollar when selling their oil.
Which is why Venezsuela has taken these actions attempting to prevent the same from happening in their country.
I hope you are not saying that there is a possibility that there were no US spies in Venezuela.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)in Venezuela.
And Maduro's claim of capturing a US pilot involved in a coup attempt against him?
George Osborne
(13 posts)The following comment, paraphrased from this article says it all......US considering tools to steer the Venezuelan government in the dirction the US believe they should be headed.
U.S. Mulls New "Tools" to Pressure Venezuela after Arrest of Opposition Mayor
The United States says it is mulling new punitive actions against Venezuela following the arrest of an opposition mayor. The mayor of Caracas, Antonio Ledezma, was detained last week and indicted for what the government called a U.S.-backed coup plot. Rejecting Venezuela’s claims, White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest said the United States is not interfering in Venezuela, but then said it is considering new actions to steer its government in a different direction.
White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest: "The fact is the Venezuelan government should stop trying to blame the United States and other members of the international community for events inside Venezuela. The Venezuelan government actually needs to deal with the grave situation that it faces. The United States is not promoting unrest in Venezuela, nor are we attempting to undermine Venezuela’s economy or its government. Well, I can tell you that the Treasury Department and the State Department are obviously closely monitoring this situation and are considering tools that may be available that could better steer the Venezuelan government in the direction that they believe they should be headed."
In response, Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro said the United States has no right to change Venezuelan policies, and appealed for global solidarity.
Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro: "I call on all the brother governments of Latin America and the Caribbean. I am calling on all our brothers and sisters in Latin America and the Caribbean. This is the moment for solidarity with the Venezuelan people, who are being attacked by the government of the United States. No one should stay quiet in the face of this aggression. What are the 'tools' that are being considered by the (U.S.) Treasury Department? More economic war. What are the 'tools' that are being considered to move us in any direction they should please? Who said that the government of the United States has any authority to move Venezuela in any way in this world?"
http://www.democracynow.org/2015/2/23/headlines
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)opposition figure on false charges directed at the US.
But, again, that's not fomenting a coup is it.
George Osborne
(13 posts)After Vietnam, ''My country right or wrong'' has lost much of its charm.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)
iandhr
(6,852 posts)Even Chavez never went this over the top.
COLGATE4
(14,886 posts)political wannabe who got promoted way over his head and who now doesn't have a clue as to what to do with the mess he inherited and then proceeded to make immeasurably worse. He's flaiiing and capable of even more irrational measures and pronouncements.
nyabingi
(1,145 posts)The US has been trying to undermine Venezuelan democracy and social reforms ever since Chavez took power. George W. Bush openly embraced a would-be coup back in 2002 and had to quickly backtrack after seeing it crumble under the overwhelming opposition of the Venezuelan electorate. US meddling has only intensified since then, with open expressions of support for violent "protesters" from Venezuela's elite neighborhoods, and corporate sabotage by hoarding supplies and goods from the public.
Obama has been as aggressive in his meddling as the Bush regime, and it's too bad there is absolutely no one in our government willing to speak out about our continued efforts to destroy democracies around the globe.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)Him and his lackeys in the govt are running scared because they know that with the elections just around the corner, and the VN economy in the toilet, there probably going to be out of a job.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)He's completely incompetent, and his party is well on their way to establishing one party rule. Maduro is a dictator now.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Therefore, all claims of Islamic terrorist attacks and plans are true.
Nope, wouldn't fly here either.
nyabingi
(1,145 posts)that was supposed to have taken place on February 12th, and in each one, the Venezuelan government obtained names of plotters, what they planned to do, and who they planned to put into office. Here's one such example:
http://www.voltairenet.org/article186879.html
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)
They're about as believable as TeleSUR or RT.
nyabingi
(1,145 posts)consider "believable" GGJohn? I'm interested to see where you get your information since TeleSUR and RT are apparently roll-on-the-floor laughable.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)They're about as believable as Faux Snooze.
nyabingi
(1,145 posts)You don't want to name any news source you rely on huh? I figured you wouldn't lol.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)Unlike you who wants to believe a govt propaganda "news" source, like TeleSUR and Voltaire.
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)Also, where is the "evidence". I see a story alleging many things (including a catchy plot name), and I see two PowerPoint slides. Where's the evidence of a coup plot, much less one originating in the US?
newthinking
(3,982 posts)Only (generally) white, western people have that kind of ability. 
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)...maybe he's returning the favor.
yurbud
(39,405 posts)Judi Lynn
(164,124 posts)Clearly, it's an ancient pattern with this country. Any one of us who bothers to do his/her research has seen it over and over.
From a great post made by a tremendous DU poster, prior to the Honduran coup against the elected President:
magbana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-29-09 07:15 PM
Original message
Old Honduran Coup on a Different Stage - "every April 11th has its April 13th"
"An Old Honduran Coup on a Different Stage
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June 29th 2009, by Michael Fox
The Presidential residence is surrounded; the president is kidnapped and flown out of the country. The opposition says the president has resigned and a conservative pro-business leader is appointed de-facto president, immediately shutting down the state television and cracking down on the dissidence. Unconfirmed reports say arrest warrants have been issued for all mayors in support of the defunct government. Thousands take to the streets, but the mainstream television stations report nothing.
No, this is not Venezuela in 2002. Nor is it Haiti, 2004. It's Honduras, 2009, but roughly the same story is once again being told, on a different stage with different actors. But that difference could mean everything.
Even as of halfway through last week, both the Civic Council of Indigenous and Grassroots Organizations of Honduras (COPINH) and Honduran President Jose Manuel Zelaya Rosales had already denounced the impending coup (http://casacollective.org/node/74863?page=2 ).(http://www.tercerainformacion.es/?Movimientos-sociales-... )
For months, Zelaya had been planning a non-binding consultative referendum to take place this Sunday that would have asked the Honduran people if the issue of a 2010 constitutional assembly should be added to the ballot of this November's upcoming elections.
Then, last week, a politically motivated Honduran Supreme Court ruled the referendum "illegal." General Romeo Vásquez Velásquez, head of the Armed Forces, refused to distribute the ballot boxes. Last Thursday, June 25th,Zelaya removed the general from his post, and accompanied by members of the country's grassroots social movements, Zelaya went personally to recover the 15,000 the ballot boxes.
More:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=405x16959
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-10 05:00 AM
Original message
2009 Honduras coup `was illegal,' says U.S. ambassador in leaked cables
Posted on Monday, 11.29.10
2009 Honduras coup `was illegal,' says U.S. ambassador in leaked cables
The U.S. ambassador to Honduras said the 2009 coup in Honduras was `clearly illegal,' according to cables released by WikiLeaks.
BY TIM JOHNSON
McClatchy News Service
MEXICO CITY -- The events surrounding the June 2009 coup in Honduras was a carnival of illegal actions by every branch of government, including the successor of the deposed president, a diplomatic cable signed by the U.S. ambassador says.
The cable, part of the quarter-million confidential diplomatic cables that WikiLeaks began to make public Sunday, offered a harsh critique of the ruling class in Honduras during and after the coup, the first in Latin America since the end of the Cold War. In the cable, Ambassador Hugo Llorens, a veteran Cuban-American diplomat, wrote that he'd studied the legal and constitutional issues that led up to the June 28 morning when some 100 soldiers dragged President Manuel Zelaya out of bed and flew him to Costa Rica.
Llorens wrote that Zelaya's foes claimed he sought to alter constitutional articles considered ``carved in stone'' and acted improperly in ousting the military chief. Llorens said, though, that the charges were never aired in a proper legal fashion.
``Although a case could well have been made against Zelaya for a number of the above alleged constitutional violations, there was never any formal, public weighing of the evidence nor any semblance of due process,'' the cable dated July 23, 2009, said.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=405x45152
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Ichingcarpenter (32,735 posts)
Hillary Clinton admits role in Honduran coup aftermath
The chapter on Latin America, particularly the section on Honduras, a major source of the child migrants currently pouring into the United States, has gone largely unnoticed. In letters to Clinton and her successor, John Kerry, more than 100 members of Congress have repeatedly warned about the deteriorating security situation in Honduras, especially since the 2009 military coup that ousted the country’s democratically elected President Manuel Zelaya. As Honduran scholar Dana Frank points out in Foreign Affairs, the U.S.-backed post-coup government “rewarded coup loyalists with top ministries,” opening the door for further “violence and anarchy.”
The homicide rate in Honduras, already the highest in the world, increased by 50 percent from 2008 to 2011; political repression, the murder of opposition political candidates, peasant organizers and LGBT activists increased and continue to this day. Femicides skyrocketed. The violence and insecurity were exacerbated by a generalized institutional collapse. Drug-related violence has worsened amid allegations of rampant corruption in Honduras’ police and government. While the gangs are responsible for much of the violence, Honduran security forces have engaged in a wave of killings and other human rights crimes with impunity.
Despite this, however, both under Clinton and Kerry, the State Department’s response to the violence and military and police impunity has largely been silence, along with continued U.S. aid to Honduran security forces. In “Hard Choices,” Clinton describes her role in the aftermath of the coup that brought about this dire situation. Her firsthand account is significant both for the confession of an important truth and for a crucial false testimony.
First, the confession: Clinton admits that she used the power of her office to make sure that Zelaya would not return to office. “In the subsequent days I spoke with my counterparts around the hemisphere, including Secretary Espinosa in Mexico,” Clinton writes. “We strategized on a plan to restore order in Honduras and ensure that free and fair elections could be held quickly and legitimately, which would render the question of Zelaya moot.”
More:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/110833944
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:48 PM
Original message
A Step Backward: Obama Administration Lacked Backbone in Response to Honduras Coup d’État
by COHA Research Associate Robin Burnette
During the first months of President Obama’s term, it looked as though U.S.-Latin American relations would turn a new page. An initial sign was the United States’ participation in several conferences pertaining to the Americas, most importantly those held by the Organization of American States (OAS) soon after Obama’s inauguration. The June 2009 coup in Honduras was one of the first major tests in Latin America for the Obama administration. It was one of the first opportunities to change foreign policy within the region and unfortunately, the United States’ efforts in Honduras ultimately ended in failure. While the Obama administration was initially resolute in its condemnation of the coup, calling resonantly for Zelaya’s reinstatement, it later altered its demands, in practice abandoning hope of restoring Manuel Zelaya to his place as the legitimate president of Honduras. Indeed, in the case of Honduras, President Obama largely failed to provide sufficient support for a democracy in peril.
Coup d’État Condemned
On the morning of 28 June 2009, the Honduran National Guard forcibly removed President Zelaya from his residence in Tegucigalpa and flew him to San José, Costa Rica. Zelaya was first supported by conservatives in Honduras, but became increasingly radical when his presidency began in 2006 and reforms followed suit such as joining ALBA (Bolivian Alliance for the Americas), increasing the minimum wage and reducing bank interest rates. The newly exiled Zelaya protested his wrongful expulsion from the country, maintaining that he remained the legitimate President of Honduras. However, the new de facto President and former Parliamentary Speaker, Roberto Micheletti, had the military’s backing. Micheletti insisted that Zelaya had violated the Honduran constitution and was therefore no longer eligible to be president. The following day, leftist members of ALBA were quick to condemn the coup, followed by the United Nations, the OAS, and the United States in quick succession. ALBA’s rapid alignment with Zelaya in this case was unsurprising, considering the strong political ties between Zelaya and Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez, ALBA’s major force.
From the outset, President Obama and Secretary of State Clinton were both adamant in their disapproval of the events in Honduras. Obama was in Colombia the day following the coup, and the statement he made on the subject was unequivocal:
President Zelaya was democratically elected… had not completed his term…we believe that the coup was not legal…in that we have joined all the countries in the region including Colombia and the Organization of American States…I think it would be a terrible precedent if we start moving backwards into the era in which we are seeing military coups as a means of political transition.
More:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=405x42184
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Kissinger and Chile: The Declassified Record (of Chile’s Own “9-11″–1973)
Posted on November 1, 2013 by Omahkohkiaaiipooyii
In 1970, the CIA’s deputy director of plans wrote in a secret memo: “It is firm and continuing policy that Allende be overthrown by a coup. … It is imperative that these actions be implemented clandestinely and securely so that the USG [the U.S. government] and American hand be well hidden.”
More:
http://sttpml.org/kissinger-and-chile-the-declassified-record-of-chiles-own-9-11-1973/
This IS the way they handle creating coups, unless there is an advantage in showing their hand, at some future time. To claim they always leave proof for the public to appreciate as they go along is smelly troll drool.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Certainly their response was not very principled and borderline chickenshit, but you have produced no evidence the US played any ex ante role in the coup.