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charlie and algernon

(13,447 posts)
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 08:26 PM Mar 2015

Saudi Arabia Begins Air Campaign in Yemen

Source: New York Times

WASHINGTON — Saudi Arabia announced on Wednesday night that it had begun military operations in Yemen, launching airstrikes in coordination with a coalition of 10 nations.

The strikes came as Yemen was hurtling closer to civil war after months of turmoil, as fighters and army units allied with the Houthi movement threatened to overrun the southern port of Aden, where the besieged president, Abdu Rabbu Mansour Hadi, has gone into hiding.

Yemen shares a long border with Saudi Arabia, a major American ally, and the Saudis had been reported to be massing forces on the Yemen frontier as Mr. Mansour’s last redoubt in Aden looked increasingly imperiled.

The rapid advances by the president’s opponents included the seizure of a military air base and an aerial assault on his home. There were unconfirmed reports that the president had fled the country by boat for Djibouti, the tiny Horn of Africa nation across the Gulf of Aden.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/world/middleeast/al-anad-air-base-houthis-yemen.html

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Saudi Arabia Begins Air Campaign in Yemen (Original Post) charlie and algernon Mar 2015 OP
Saudi use of American supplied weapons in an offensive non-consensual capacity may be a violation of the arms supply agreement. Fred Sanders Mar 2015 #1
I'm guessing this is very, very consensual nt tishaLA Mar 2015 #2
It's never stopped the Israelis. n/t Mr.Bill Mar 2015 #3
I'm not sure bombing anyone will stop a civil war. Is there an example in history where bloomington-lib Mar 2015 #4
Ex-Yugoslavia. (nt) jeff47 Mar 2015 #5
In recent history, there most certainly was: freshwest Mar 2015 #17
Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease. Larry Engels Mar 2015 #24
Shock and Allah! El Supremo Mar 2015 #6
This is a very real conflict between Yemenis. Comrade Grumpy Mar 2015 #11
Too late for that now...... DeSwiss Mar 2015 #13
"Saudi leads ten-nation Sunni coalition in bombing Yemen's Shia rebels" - Telegraph Larry Engels Mar 2015 #25
WaPo story eridani Mar 2015 #7
At least the Saudis waited to launch war by proxy with Persian Iran until after America evacuated diplomatic personnel. Fred Sanders Mar 2015 #8
This is a fine mess. TwilightGardener Mar 2015 #9
If I am not mistaken Lawrence O just reported that we are supporting them with bombing. How jwirr Mar 2015 #10
All. Of. Them. Somehow. n/t DeSwiss Mar 2015 #14
It will fly under the radar of most people in the US Elmer S. E. Dump Mar 2015 #20
Even when the body bags were coming home a lot of Ameicans do not care as long as it is not jwirr Mar 2015 #21
Very sad, but true. Some people are just fucked in the head. Elmer S. E. Dump Mar 2015 #22
Whoever we have treaties with, I guess. And we're not at war, we just sold them that stuff. freshwest Mar 2015 #18
Saudi Arabia is contributing 100 warplanes and 150,000 soldiers to the military operation in Yemen jakeXT Mar 2015 #12
When all else fails....... DeSwiss Mar 2015 #15
This is getting really messy over there. n/t BojackFan Mar 2015 #16
Oil prices rise 6% as Saudi Arabia bombs Yemen rebels (BBC) inanna Mar 2015 #19
Well that tears it...... DeSwiss Mar 2015 #23
Yemen's Hadi arrives in Saudi capital, after fleeing Aden Bosonic Mar 2015 #26
Saudi-led coalition launches fresh strikes in Yemen: local officials Bosonic Mar 2015 #27
so saudi arabia did not attach al queda or isis but the houthi's samsingh Mar 2015 #28
Yep. n/t Comrade Grumpy Mar 2015 #30
almost like an implicit support of isis and al queda samsingh Mar 2015 #32
Yemen rebel chief slams 'unjustified' Saudi intervention Bosonic Mar 2015 #29
eh, it's another one of them Shia/Sunni things Baclava Mar 2015 #31
why does the US support this or that armed-gang over another? ...nt quadrature Mar 2015 #33
White House concerned about 'Iranian activities' in Yemen Bosonic Mar 2015 #34

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
1. Saudi use of American supplied weapons in an offensive non-consensual capacity may be a violation of the arms supply agreement.
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 08:34 PM
Mar 2015

Another opening for Obama to shed the chains of geo-politics regarding the dictatorship of Saudi?

bloomington-lib

(946 posts)
4. I'm not sure bombing anyone will stop a civil war. Is there an example in history where
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 08:58 PM
Mar 2015

foreign countries stopped a civil war by bombing them?

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
17. In recent history, there most certainly was:
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 02:31 AM
Mar 2015
NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

Operation Allied Force
Part of the Kosovo War



Novi Sad on fire, 1999 Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.

Date

March 24, 1999 – June 10, 1999 (78 days)[3]

Location

Federal Republic of Yugoslavia,[4] mainly in the Republic of Serbia and Kosovo[5][6]

Result

NATO victory
[7]

* Kumanovo Treaty initiated
* Withdrawal of Serb forces from

Kosovo

* Deployment of KFOR
* Heavy destruction of Yugoslavia's economy and infrastructure

Territorial changes

UN Resolution 1244; de facto separation of Kosovo from Yugoslavia under United Nations temporary administration

Background

After its autonomy was quashed, Kosovo was faced with state organized oppression: since the early 1990s, Albanian language radio and television were restricted and newspapers shut down, whereas Kosovar Albanians were fired in large numbers from public enterprises and institutions, including banks, hospitals, the post office and schools.[44] In June 1991 the University of Priština assembly and several faculty councils were dissolved and replaced by Serbs, and Kosovar Albanian teachers were prevented from entering school premises for the new school year beginning in September 1991, forcing students to study at home.[44]

With time, Kosovar Albanians started an insurgency against Belgrade when the Kosovo Liberation Army was founded in 1996. Armed clashes between two sides broke out in early 1998. A NATO-facilitated ceasefire was signed on 15 October, but both sides broke it two months later and fighting resumed. When the killing of 45 Kosovar Albanians in the Račak massacre was reported in January 1999, NATO decided that the conflict could only be settled by introducing a military peacekeeping force to forcibly restrain the two sides. After the Rambouillet Accords broke down on 23 March with Yugoslav rejection of an external peacekeeping force, NATO prepared to install the peacekeepers by force.

Goals


NATO's objectives in the Kosovo conflict were stated at the North Atlantic Council meeting held at NATO headquarters in Brussels on April 12, 1999:[45]

* An end to all military action and the immediate termination of violence and repressive activities by the Milosevic government;
* Withdrawal of all military, police and paramilitary forces from Kosovo;
* Stationing of UN peacekeeping presence in Kosovo;
* Unconditional and safe return of all refugees and displaced persons;
* Establishment of a political framework agreement for Kosovo based on Rambouillet Accords, in conformity with international law and the Charter of the United Nations.

Strategy

Operation Allied Force predominantly used a large-scale air campaign to destroy Yugoslav military infrastructure from high altitudes. Ground units were not used because NATO wanted to minimize the risk of losing forces, as well as avoiding public criticism related to its relative ineffectiveness[citation needed] against mobile ground targets. After the third day of aerial bombing, NATO had destroyed almost all of its strategic military targets in Yugoslavia. Despite this, the Yugoslav Army continued to function and to attack Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) insurgents inside Kosovo, mostly in the regions of Northern and Southwest Kosovo. NATO bombed strategic economic and societal targets, such as bridges, military facilities, official government facilities, and factories, using long-range cruise missiles to hit heavily defended targets, such as strategic installations in Belgrade and Pristina. The NATO air forces also targeted infrastructure, such as power plants (using the BLU-114/B "Soft-Bomb&quot , water-processing plants and the state-owned broadcaster, causing much environmental and economic damage throughout Yugoslavia.

Commentators have debated whether the capitulation of Yugoslavia in the Kosovo War of 1999 resulted solely from the use of air power, or whether other factors contributed.

Due to restrictive media laws, media in Yugoslavia carried little coverage of what its forces were doing in Kosovo, or of other countries' attitudes to the humanitarian crisis; so, few members of the public expected bombing, instead thinking that a diplomatic deal would be made.[46]

Arguments for strategic air power

According to John Keegan, the capitulation of Yugoslavia in the Kosovo War marked a turning point in the history of warfare. It "proved that a war can be won by air power alone". By comparison, diplomacy had failed before the war, and the deployment of a large NATO ground force was still weeks away when Slobodan Milošević agreed to a peace deal.[47]

As for why air power should have been capable of acting alone, it has been argued[by whom?] that there are several factors required. These normally come together only rarely, but all occurred during the Kosovo War:[48]

1. Bombardment needs to be capable of causing destruction while minimising casualties. This causes pressure within the population to end hostilities rather than to prolong them. The exercise of precision air power in the Kosovo War is said[by whom?] to have provided this.
2. The régime must be susceptible to pressure from within the population. As was demonstrated by the overthrow of Milošević a year later, Serbia's government was only weakly authoritarian and depended upon support from within the country.
3. There must be a disparity of military capabilities such that the opponent is unable to inhibit the exercise of air superiority over its territory. Serbia, a relatively small impoverished Balkan state, faced a much more powerful NATO coalition including the United Kingdom and the United States.
4. Carl von Clausewitz once called the "essential mass of the enemy" his "centre of gravity". Should the centre of gravity be destroyed, a major factor in Yugoslavian will to resist would be broken or removed. In Milošević's case, the centre of gravity was his hold on power. He manipulated hyperinflation, sanctions and restrictions in supply and demand to allow powerful business interests within Serbia to profit and they responded by maintaining him in power. The damage to the economy, which squeezed it to a point where there was little profit to be made, threatened to undermine their support for Milošević if the air campaign continued, whilst causing costly infrastructure damage.[49]

The NATO bombing of Yugoslavia was the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation's (NATO) military operation against the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia during the Kosovo War. According to NATO the operation sought to stop human rights abuses in Kosovo,[40] and it was the first time that this military organisation used military force without the approval of the UN Security Council and against a sovereign nation that did not pose a threat to members of the alliance.[41] The strikes lasted from March 24, 1999 to June 10, 1999. The official NATO operation code name was Operation Allied Force; the United States called it Operation Noble Anvil,[42] while in Yugoslavia the operation was incorrectly called "Merciful Angel" (Serbian Cyrillic: Милосрдни анђео , as a result of a misunderstanding of nomenclature which was only temporary.[43]

The NATO bombing marked the second major combat operation in its history, following the 1995 NATO bombing campaign in Bosnia and Herzegovina. The 1999 bombings led to the withdrawal of Yugoslav forces from Kosovo and the establishment of UNMIK, a U.N. mission in Kosovo.

During the bombing that killed between 2,000 and 4,000 civilians, destroyed many bridges, industrial plants, many civilian buildings, public buildings and businesses, barracks and military installations. It should be particularly noted the destruction of two oil refineries, demolition Avala Tower, the Radio-Television Serbia, the Pancevo petrochemical, shooting bridge building, car factory Zastava from Kragujevac, in the buildings of downtown Belgrade, Embassy of the Republic of China and many other civilian targets.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia

Milosovich was involved in the Siege of Sarajevo and the Yugoslavian war and died at The Hague:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slobodan_Milo%C5%A1evi%C4%87

Had an intereesting life with a surprising amount of family members committing suicide. Seemingly did sgood things, not as bad as portrayed. The charges laid against him after his people threw him out of office when the war was over. But without any bloodshed, they just walked into the offices of government en masse and that was the end of it, IIRC.

But opinions on him, the civil war and the NATO action varies with whom you're talking. I conversed for several years with Russians who sided with the Serbs and claimed that when the Serbians and Milosovich lost control, the Muslims went about killing all the Christians and were intent on driving them all out.

I also talked a young Kosovan man on the other side, who was not religious. He was very glad NATO did what they did and when they finally got their independence, he was ecstatic. He showed me a lot about the area, and explained how they were still cleaning up from the civil war that had been ongoing for a long time. Things like how the hills and parks had been mined and they could not go hurting. He grew up in the era of the Siege of Sarajevo:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Sarajevo

Which was a major destruction of civil society and the unity of Yugoslavia. It was quite heartbreaking to see what was going at the time. But he was of the generation that was grew up then and he saw nothing but peace with the rebuilding going on. He was optimistic, also liked Americans very much. So who is to say?

I digressed, but I thought that would be an example of foreign countries ending a civil war for you, as it'd been going on for over 7 years and was ended in 78 days with some more minor events once NATO decided to contain the contagion.

My Russian friends felt the war would continue to engulf all of the Balkans since they believed it was another Islamic push into Europe. They said if Kosovo was allowed independence it would happen. They were exceedingly angry with the American and their allied bombing.

The warfare in the region did, however, stop there. That is likely too much information but that is just what came off the top of my head in replying to your question. The Saudis can indeed push the outcome of the events in Yemen to their favor. ISIS has promised they will destroy Mecca and the Saudis, and well, a lot of other Muslims while they're working to bring Heaven on Earth. Sounds depressingly familiar.

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
11. This is a very real conflict between Yemenis.
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 10:55 PM
Mar 2015

Sectarianism actually plays a relatively small part, except for those Wahhabi types who want to fan the flames.

The Houthis don't appeal to sectarianism, but claim to speak for the Yemeni nation. How true that is I don't know.

 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
13. Too late for that now......
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 01:22 AM
Mar 2015

...especially after we've already sold them the bombs and the planes to drop them from. And then there's the inevitable re-orders. We don't want to lose out on that, now do we? And as the Attorney General has told us, it's hard to enforce the law when you know you could end up damaging the economy by doing so.

- Bringing democracy to the people of Yemen will take gut$, drone$, plane$, mi$$ile$, gun$ and bomb$. Everybody know$ that........



eridani

(51,907 posts)
7. WaPo story
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 09:26 PM
Mar 2015
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/report-yemens-embattled-president-flees-stronghold-as-rebels-advance/2015/03/25/

Saudi Arabia launched airstrikes early Thursday in neighboring Yemen, heading a coalition of Arab nations in an effort to dislodge Houthi rebels sweeping through that country.

The strikes were a startling turn of events that came as the Houthis, in control of Yemen’s capital for months, barreled south toward the coastal city of Aden, seizing an air base along the way that was evacuated by U.S. Special Operations forces­ last week.

President Abed Rabbo Mansour Hadi, who had taken refuge in Aden after fleeing Sanaa, the capital, was said to have escaped. His whereabouts were unknown.

The military operation was announced in Washington by Saudi Ambassador Adel al-Jubeir, who said it would last until Yemen’s “legitimate government” was restored.

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
8. At least the Saudis waited to launch war by proxy with Persian Iran until after America evacuated diplomatic personnel.
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 09:41 PM
Mar 2015

So now foreign nations are also announcing war while in America as well as election campaigning?

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
10. If I am not mistaken Lawrence O just reported that we are supporting them with bombing. How
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 10:50 PM
Mar 2015

many damned wars are we in now?

 

Elmer S. E. Dump

(5,751 posts)
20. It will fly under the radar of most people in the US
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 09:23 AM
Mar 2015

As long as there are no body bags coming home, people will not even notice. Just wait until an American jet or helicopter is shot down. Then some people will wake up.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
21. Even when the body bags were coming home a lot of Ameicans do not care as long as it is not
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 10:19 AM
Mar 2015

their child coming home in a body bag.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
18. Whoever we have treaties with, I guess. And we're not at war, we just sold them that stuff.
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 02:39 AM
Mar 2015
We've been supplying the Saudis, and they've been paying us very good amounts of money, too, since the 1950s when things were more peaceful there. If you want to call the status quo there peaceful.

'Stability' is what foreign nations want when dealing with each other and it's more about resources than human rights. Those rights are protected by stability, a nation without them will be unstable. It's a Gordian Knot.

The world sucks that way, always has.

jakeXT

(10,575 posts)
12. Saudi Arabia is contributing 100 warplanes and 150,000 soldiers to the military operation in Yemen
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 12:38 AM
Mar 2015

DUBAI (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia is contributing 100 warplanes and 150,000 soldiers to the military operation in Yemen, al-Arabiya television reported on Thursday.

Planes from Egypt, Morocco, Jordan, Sudan, Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar and Bahrain are also taking part in the operation, it said. Egypt, Pakistan, Jordan and Sudan are ready to participate in a ground offensive, the broadcaster said.

http://news.yahoo.com/saudi-arabia-150-000-troops-yemen-operation-arabiya-041839905.html

 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
15. When all else fails.......
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 01:29 AM
Mar 2015

...bomb the shit out of somebody.

- That ALWAYS works.

K&R



Our planet is run by evil morons..........

inanna

(3,547 posts)
19. Oil prices rise 6% as Saudi Arabia bombs Yemen rebels (BBC)
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 03:48 AM
Mar 2015

38 minutes ago

Oil prices rose by as much as 6% after Saudi Arabia, the world's biggest crude exporter, and its allies launched airstrikes on rebel targets in Yemen.

The move has raised concerns that the conflict could spread in the oil-rich Middle East and possibly disrupt production in the region.

West Texas Intermediate crude futures, the US benchmark, rallied to about $51 (£34) a barrel.

Brent crude climbed to $59.71 a barrel during trading in Asia.

Yemen is located along an important international shipping route for global energy producers.

Link: http://www.bbc.com/news/business-32062571

 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
23. Well that tears it......
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 11:58 AM
Mar 2015

...they either have to stop the bombing or raise production levels.

- Can't let a silly little war interfere with the REAL reason for the oil price reductions......


[center]

Wait! Hold it...........

[/center]

Bosonic

(3,746 posts)
26. Yemen's Hadi arrives in Saudi capital, after fleeing Aden
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 01:06 PM
Mar 2015
Yemen's Hadi arrives in Saudi capital, after fleeing Aden

SANAA, Yemen (AP) -- Saudi state TV says Yemen's embattled President Abed Rabbo Mansour Hadi has arrived in the Saudi capital, Riyadh.

Al-Ekhbariya TV reported Hadi arrived Thursday at a Riyadh airbase and was met by Saudi Defense Minister Prince Mohammed, the son of King Salman. A day earlier, Hadi fled the southern Yemeni city Aden in a boat as Shiite rebels and their allies moved on the city.

Hadi's arrival comes as Saudi Arabia and its allies launched airstrikes in Yemen against the rebels, known as Houthis, and forces loyal to Hadi's predecessor, ousted autocrat Ali Abdullah Saleh.

Hadi is expected to attend an Arab summit in Egypt that starts Saturday. His route from Aden to Riyadh was not immediately known. The Houthis' TV network reported that he arrived in Oman earlier Thursday.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_YEMEN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Bosonic

(3,746 posts)
27. Saudi-led coalition launches fresh strikes in Yemen: local officials
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 01:15 PM
Mar 2015
#BREAKING Saudi-led coalition launches fresh strikes in Yemen: local officials

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/581141713839849472

samsingh

(18,468 posts)
28. so saudi arabia did not attach al queda or isis but the houthi's
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 01:49 PM
Mar 2015

says a lot about what they feel is acceptable terrorism

Bosonic

(3,746 posts)
29. Yemen rebel chief slams 'unjustified' Saudi intervention
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 02:38 PM
Mar 2015
Yemen rebel chief slams 'unjustified' Saudi intervention

Sanaa (AFP) - Yemen rebel leader Abdulmalik al-Huthi slammed a Saudi-led intervention against his Iran-backed forces Thursday as "unjustified," in his militia's first reaction since the air strikes were launched overnight.

"The criminal oppressive aggression is completely unjustified," Huthi said in a televised speech, accusing Saudi Arabia of being a "neighbour of evil".

http://news.yahoo.com/yemen-rebel-chief-slams-unjustified-saudi-intervention-182439262.html;_ylt=AwrBEiEeUBRVoQgA9bnQtDMD

Bosonic

(3,746 posts)
34. White House concerned about 'Iranian activities' in Yemen
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 03:46 PM
Mar 2015
White House concerned about 'Iranian activities' in Yemen

Washington (AFP) - The White House on Thursday voiced concern about "Iranian activities" in Yemen, where Huthi Shiite rebels have taken control of several cities and are assaulting the port of Aden.

Alistair Baskey, a National Security Council spokesman, said such actions, as well as "reports of Iranian flow of arms into Yemen," were "contributing to destabilizing the situation and contributing to the threat posed to the legitimate government."

A Saudi-led Arab coalition with US backing has launched air strikes against the rebels in support of Yemen's embattled leader -- a move Iran has warned was "dangerous."

http://news.yahoo.com/white-house-concerned-iranian-activities-yemen-190942045.html;_ylt=AwrBEiQ0XRRVSSYAZgzQtDMD
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