Bali Nine: Indonesia executes eight prisoners but reprieves Mary Jane Veloso

[Beauregard]

Source: Guardian

Australians Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran and six other men are executed by firing squad, as Filipina Mary Jane Velosa wins a last-minute reprieve.

Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/apr/28/bali-nine-andrew-chan-myuran-sukumaran-executed-indonesia-mercy

[turbinetree]

1. Just think

for all of the right wingers out there supporting the TPP this is what is called Authoritarian Capitalists----just like in China.

This is the same country that is on the list in this negotiations---see below:

"The Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) is a proposed regional regulatory and investment treaty. As of 2014, twelve countries throughout the Asia-Pacific region have participated in negotiations on the TPP: Australia, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore, the United States, and Vietnam. "

And this is a country that we want to have has a trading partner------I mean really.

[Stainless]

6. Indonesia isn't on your list!

Singapore is however, and I believe they execute people for drug crimes.

[rpannier]

16. Yeah they do

[Stainless]

18. They're still not on the tpp list

So what's your point?

[rpannier]

20. That Singapore Executes people for drug crimes

You said 'I believe they execute people for drug crimes'
I was affirming that they did because I wasn't sure if your statement was a statement of certainty or probability

[still_one]

2. Isn't civilization wonderful?

[samsingh]

3. there is no civilization evident here

[still_one]

5. I was being scarcastic

[happyslug]

19. It takes civialization to come up with the death Penaty.

True primitive society rarely used the death penalty, exile from the tribe was the preferred punishment. Such an exile could survive for a time period, but without support from his clan, his or her chances of surviving was slim. In simple terms death would have been preferred.

It is when you have a government that controls so large an area that you can no longer exile someone into the wilderness, that the death penalty developed. A contributing factor was that a huge number of the people you ruled where people you had conquered and disliked your rule (and thus would support a revolt). Any exiles would be supported by these rebels, and thus to prevent such an alliance, enemies of the state had to be killed.

Yes, it takes civilization to come up and use the death penalty, primitive societies had no need for it.

Side note: The down side of primitive societies is constant warfare and death from such warfare. Just a comment that the lack of a Death Penalty does NOT mean a lack of death by violence on orders of the governing elite. On the other hand, such primitive "Wars" had an internal check, for units that lose 10% or more of their members, cease to be effective combat units and need retraining. In primitive groups such losses could be obtain quickly, often with non-fatal wounds, but the lost of the 10% would make one side or the other (and often both sides) to end the fighting. Thus it is believed that it took Civilization to achieve high losses of life both in combat and with the death penalty.l

[samsingh]

4. this is awful. boycott that stupid governement

[closeupready]

9. Why? Or maybe I should ask, why now?

Were you calling for a boycott of their government yesterday, or the day before? Or last year?

[AuntPatsy]

17. It can never be too late

[closeupready]

21. Ah, but it IS too late for Myuran Sukumaran.......

He's gone, but if people had objected prior to now, perhaps he would have had his second chance. Maybe Indonesia DID entertain objections, and refused...?.

The larger point here is, you are opposed to capital punishment in EVERY case. There can be NO exceptions. EVER. Even for the worst of the worst. (Now watch the argumentative amongst us come up with the one exception...)

Separately, opposing capital punishment is not about approving of the crimes committed by the worst of the worst; it's about lots of thing - believing in rehabilitation; believing in the fallibility of man and man's institutions; believing in the inherent value of every single human life; etc.

[AuntPatsy]

23. But not for others, it is more than possible such was refused

[Violet_Crumble]

28. There was strong objections from all sides of politics in Australia. It did no good...

They were never going to get a second chance, even if there was conclusive proof they were innocent (which Chan and Sukumaran weren't and never claimed to be). Jojo Widido intends to kill around 60 people for drug offenses, and most of them are foreigners, some from countries where the death penalty has been abolished for many decades.

Here's some more info

Indonesia murdered eight people. The time for being polite is over

Now we can say what these deaths were – the torture and murder of human beings by a neighbouring state. We do not need to spare feelings for fear of being seen as arrogant westerners or hold back because Australia is so far from perfect – witness our treatment of asylum seekers, witness the outrage of phone tapping the former Indonesian president’s wife.


Nothing excuses what Indonesia has done. This was about domestic politics and president Widodo’s determination to be tough in the face of foreign pressure.


There was a moratorium on capital punishment in Indonesia for four years. In 2013 it was lifted because of a “drugs emergency”. Widodo announced late last year he would reject the clemency bids of all 64 drug dealers on death row before he had even seen them.


If we told the truth, we would say that Indonesian attorney general HM Prasetyo has seemed to relish his role. It was repulsive for him to announce that the date of the execution would be put back so it wouldn’t clash with an Asian African conference because “it doesn’t look good when we have guests to shoot them [the prisoners]”, as if would look just fine some other time.


Prasetyo scoffed at legal appeals and predicted they would fail before they were heard. He saw nothing morally questionable in his argument that even if Chan and Sukumaran won their constitutional court case challenging the president’s clemency deliberations – a case set down for 12 May – it wouldn’t have mattered because it wouldn’t be retrospective. “I hear they’re going to challenge to the constitutional court. Go ahead!” he mocked. Several of those executed had legal appeals still under way, which Prasetyo dismissed as “buying time”.


At the last minute, there were corruption allegations so serious that to execute someone without investigating them is a moral crime, if not a legal one. Indonesia is trying to clean up its judicial system, but corruption persists, and an attempted bribe in a death penalty case is not unthinkable.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/29/indonesia-murdered-two-australians-the-time-for-being-polite-is-over

[cosmicone]

7. The politicians who want to portray that they're tough on crime

will sacrifice lives for image. SICK.

It would be one thing if these were mass murderers or serial killers .. but for drug trafficking?

And the irony is that Indonesia is asking for clemency for Indonesians on death row in Malaysia!!! Such fucking hypocrisy.

[okaawhatever]

11. Yes and one of the men was a diagnosed schizophrenic which doubly violates international law. nt

[SoCalMusicLover]

8. Can't Hurt The Woman Apparently

Before the Jodi Arias trial in AZ, I heard how they would NEVER find 12 jurors to sentence a female to death. 2 mistrials later, that was the case.

I guess women are just more likable.

[Chan790]

10. Actually, Veloso's execution reprieve is probably more the result...

of the need for her testimony following the extradition to Indonesia of another unidentified woman from the Philippines for human trafficking and drug trafficking. It was in the article in the OP.

It's likely after she testifies that both her and the woman she's testifying against will both face the firing squad.

Sick is what it is...to spare her for a few weeks or months only so she can condemn another person to the same fate. I oppose capital punishment but if my choice was a two month reprieve so I could testify and put another person on death row or execution two months sooner...I'd choose the second.

The death penalty must be ended globally.

[RandySF]

26. There is more hope than that.

Philippine police are investigating whether the recruiter tricked Mary Jane into unknowingly carrying drugs into Indonesia. The recruiter turned herself in just yesterday because she's becoming VERY unmm..unpopular. So the outcome here is very much in the air.

[Recursion]

24. Her two handlers have apparently turned themselves in

I think it's more about that; she's claiming she was trafficked.

[iscooterliberally]

12. Yeah, let's kill people so they don't use drugs.

God forbid someone might get high! Drug prohibition truly is a crime against humanity.

[SoapBox]

13. Blood thirsty fuckheads...

What demonic assholes.

[L0oniX]

14. So uhm is Indonesia in the TPP deal?

Indonesia Ponders TPP Membership

http://www.aseanbriefing.com/news/2013/05/08/indonesia-ponders-tpp-membership.html

Fuck the TPP !

[Recursion]

25. Doubtful they would ever agree to the labor protections

Being in the TPP means AFL-CIO can sue you if you write new labor laws that companies want.

[Turborama]

29. That was 2 years ago.

It's very unlikely the new president, Jokowi, would sign up for it.

http://www.antaranews.com/en/news/98611/asia-and-africa-are-the-future-of-the-world-president

ETA

http://thejakartaglobe.beritasatu.com/news/jakarta/un-bretton-woods-institutions-should-reform-to-rectify-global-imbalance-joko/

And:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-22/china-indonesia-lead-calls-for-new-order-for-developing-world

[samsingh]

15. i am disgusted and upset with indonesia - their government.

this is barbaric, inhumane, disgusting - murder.

[closeupready]

22. Why?

[Violet_Crumble]

27. Here's why

The death penalty is always wrong. Indonesia killed people convicted of smuggling drugs after they gone thru a corrupt judicial system. The president announced prior to any appeals that he'd reject them all no matter what. Judges offered to cut their sentences if their families paid them lots of money. One of those murdered last night had a mental disability yet Indonesia ignored that in its bloodlust. The one who got a reprieve looks like she is innocent but they would have gone ahead and murdered her anyway if that news hadn't come out when it did.

Australia's done what other countries with nationals killed by Indonesia have done and withdrawn their ambassador. I hope sanctions are introduced and Indonesia learns a lesson even though it's too late for the ones killed already.

[Turborama]

30. US Stays Out of Row on Indonesian Executions / Australia withdraws its ambassador

By Agence France-Presse on 08:08 am Apr 30, 2015

Washington. The United States, where the death penalty is still carried out, on Wednesday steered clear of a storm of global protest triggered by Indonesia’s execution of seven foreign drug traffickers.

The seven — two from Australia, one from Brazil and four from Africa — were shot along with one Indonesian, despite strident foreign appeals and pleas from family members.

“We don’t have much to say on this, other than we’re aware that they have executed eight [sic] foreign citizens convicted of drug trafficking,” State Department acting spokeswoman Marie Harf said. “As we’ve said, none of these eight were Americans.”

=snip=

Australia has withdrawn its ambassador to Jakarta in protest at the execution of their nationals, and the European Union has expressed dismay.

Full article: http://thejakartaglobe.beritasatu.com/news/us-stays-row-indonesian-executions/

[Violet_Crumble]

31. I noticed it was big news in the media, but not in the US...

I mean, there would be an amazing double standard in a country that has the death penalty speaking out against another country for having the death penalty. And *if* one of those eight had been an American, the US would have been hypocritical to speak out.

I read the editorial in the Jakarta Globe. That was pretty spot on, imo. The attitude of the Indonesian govt comes across as they don't have to do anything to try to repair the damage they've done and things will be sweet if they wait a bit. I think they underestimate the anger what they've done has caused.