Preliminary Baltimore police report: no evidence Gray fatally injured during arrest: ABC

[Novara]

Source: Reuters

(Reuters) - A preliminary probe has found no evidence that 25-year-old Freddie Gray was fatally injured during his videotaped arrest in Baltimore, a local ABC affiliate reported on Thursday, citing sources briefed on the police report and on findings made by the medical examiner.

The medical examiner found Gray's catastrophic injury was caused when he was slammed into back of the police transport van and apparently broke his neck. Law enforcement sources also said Gray sustained a head injury that matches bolt in the back of police van, the affiliate reported.

Gray's death a week after his arrest sparked violent protests over police treatment of minorities. The police report was not released to the public, but handed over on Thursday to the city's chief prosecutor. The U.S. Department of Justice has also launched an investigation into Gray's death.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/30/us-usa-police-baltimore-idUSKBN0NL1GO20150430

---

You knew this information would get out anyway.

[geek tragedy]

1. was that ever an allegation? nt

[alcibiades_mystery]

22. Oh, plenty of forensic video watchin' experts have said just that

Just kidding. They're know-nothing speculators trying desperately to reduce cop culpability to zero, as usual.

[geek tragedy]

24. my understanding is that it's always been understood that he was killed/injured

in the van ride itself, not during the actual arrest.

Baltimore PD . . . ugh . . . what a mess they are. Urban PDs like Oakland, Baltimore, etc show that liberal cities can be supersized Fergusons.

[TinkerTot55]

58. No, I don't think that was "always understood"....

....but I think it's the narrative the police department wants people to believe. Trying to reduce an incident from "actively caused by the initial rough handling during the take-down preceding the arrest" to "whoops, we neglected to put on the seat belt; our bad."

I want Orthopedic and Emergency Medicine physicians and also neurologists to view all the recordings taken of the incident, and evaluate Mr. Gray's physical condition.

I saw him screaming in pain, and seemingly unable to move his legs BEFORE he entered the van; I saw him dragged and unable to walk, similar to the incident with the Indian man who was slammed to the ground and was partially paralyzed. I've seen videos of other arrests where cops place their full weight on someone's neck and head ( and I have been *amazed* that those suspects weren't killed or paralyzed. )

But yet, I haven't ( probably ) seen all the videos.

I don't want COPS pronouncing their "medical expertise"; I wanna hear it from the PROFESSIONALS who can accurately assess these types of injuries.

And people coming out days or weeks later with an alternate theory or narrative....PUHHHH-LEAZE.

[geek tragedy]

59. But, if he was killed by one of their abusive "rough rides" that's still felony murder

and a violation of his federal civil rights

There's really not a way for the cops to spin this where they're not murderers

[TinkerTot55]

61. Agreed.

100% in agreement.

[arcane1]

2. Being slammed into the van isn't "during arrest"?

Where then does the "arrest" end?

[underpants]

7. I think the arrest is one act

Then he is under arrest. Still their responsibility.

Just guessing here.

[malthaussen]

8. I'm guessing this official position represents the "he did it to himself" narrative.

Obviously, Mr Gray was deranged, possibly so ashamed of being taken into custody that he took his own life by slamming his head into the side of the van. This official report leads to the conclusion that the officers did not use undue force at any time, since there is "no evidence" that they did so where it can be checked. And I'm sure many will go to sleep tonight believing exactly that.

In answer to your rhetorical, btw, the "arrest" ends after he is put into the van. From that point he is "in custody."

-- Mal

[awoke_in_2003]

72. I was getting coffee in the break room

earlier and Fox was on. They were claiming that he was trying to injure himself in the back of the van. Yeah, handcuffed he managed to crush his larynx and sever his spine.

[still_one]

40. I agree, this is some kind of double speak

[DallasNE]

42. My Exact Thought

Sounds like some kind of hair splitting here.

When he was slammed into the back of the van his body was already limp as though he was either unconscious or his spinal cord had already been compromised and the head shot as he was slammed in the back of the van either caused or just added to the damage.

Of course this head injury is newly reported, following the other prisoners report of Gray banging himself about. Bottom line, he was thrown around just like a slab of meat in a packing house.

[sharp_stick]

3. That is one of the worst

editing jobs I've ever seen in a report. The fact that it's Reuters makes it even worse.

"injury was caused when he was slammed into back of the police transport van" ...into back of the ...

"Gray sustained a head injury that matches bolt in the back" ... matches bolt in the back...

Either hire an editor or forbid reporters from filing reports from their damned iPhones, Lisa Lambert and especially Sandra Maler look pathetic.

&quot Reporting by Lisa Lambert; Editing by Sandra Maler)"

[Novara]

6. I know!

Shoddy writing with no proofreading drives me crazy!

[malthaussen]

9. Hey, proofreaders cost money.

We get the gist of the story, right? Next thing you know, you'll want complete sentences or something.

-- Mal

[RebelOne]

50. As a retired copy editor, I would be happy to offer my services (for a price of course). n/t

[underpants]

10. They were probably in a rush to get it out

No excuse though

[okaawhatever]

15. Trying to be first with the story. Reuters does go back and edit published stories, thank goodness

[libdem4life]

4. Now this is deep. I think the entire globe knows, without this secretive whitewash, because a man

screaming...after his arrest and being shoved into the Paddy Wagon...we really could tell his injuries were not fatal at the time of arrest. He couldn't walk...tasers had hit him in the leg and his knees were jammed into his back, but this was clearly not fatal. Duh and Double Duh.

Trying to get the officers off and put it on the van driver...probably a contractor...not a cop.

I call more BS...on top of BS on top of BS...this one ain't going away anytime soon Dudes...going to have to Deal With It.

[project_bluebook]

5. Its police responsibility regardless

he was injured at arrest, he should have been checked out by EMS or transported to the hospital, not taken on a joy ride.

[liberal from boston]

64. Freddie Gray

Here is a link of O'Donnell interview w/Jayne Miller. She discusses the van ride.

http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watch/what-really-happened-in-the-police-van--436759107717

[FarPoint]

11. Sounds like no charges coming for these cops.

That said...this is far from over! I'll wait for the second, private autopsy report.

[mackdaddy]

12. Any evidence of a "Baltimore Rough Ride"?

This was suggested by a caller to a radio show who claimed to have been arrested and thrown into a transport van handcuffed but not belted in. The cops then drove around erratically with sudden turns and slam stops that thew the guy around inside the van bouncing face first off the sides and floor of the van since his arms were handcuffed.

I wonder if the "bolt pattern" was on the inside or outside of the van?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

73. the bolt pattern could be from the end of a baton

but we will never know the truth

[DallasNE]

74. Gray's DNA Should Be All Over The Murder Weapon

Whether a baton or a bolt in the van.

Some are speculating that the nature of the injury would likely have caused a seizure and that could have been what the other prisoner was hearing - Gray having a seizure. When asked today the witness described it as light tapping rather than the pounding the police leak indicated.

[Archae]

13. Was Gray "cowboyed?"

One news report described how people arrested get "cowboyed," it's called that because the person arrested gets bounced around like a guy on a bucking bronco.

The guy arrested is shackled, then thrown into the back of a police van, unbuckled.

The driver then drives crazily on purpose, bouncing the shackled victim around.

Sounds like this is what they did to Gray.

[Larry Engels]

28. It's also called a "nickel ride."

Unbelted detainees have been paralyzed and even killed by rough rides in what used to be called "paddy wagons." It even has a name: "nickel rides," referring to cheap amusement park thrills.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/rough-ride-lawyer-says-man-fatally-injured-custody-baltimore-police-n347391

Jeebus.

[leveymg]

14. Yes, he was still breathing but already grievously injured when they threw him in. He couldn't walk

Those who saw the initial overage saw the officers pick him up. He tried to take one step, his face grimaced, and he fell. The cops dragged his limp body to the paddy wagon. The clips that I've seen lately on MSM have edited those parts out. Watch these two videos shot from different angles.

Here it is from another angle, shows him being dragged, his legs are limp:

[MannyGoldstein]

51. Jail. All of them.

He was already very seriously injured when they put him in the van.

They are inhuman.

[leveymg]

57. They should have called for an ambulance, not the meat wagon.

But, the Gamma-Plus bike cops in yellow and black body suits thought that little problem could be pushed down the food chain onto the lowly black-clad Delta-Minus paddy wagon driver. Oh, Brave New World.

[bluestateguy]

16. Let the cover up begin!

It'll be a day or two before the inevitable video surfaces of an alleged "robbery" from 5 years ago, which will be used to justify his murder.

[underpants]

29. The other big headline this afternoon is that 100 cops have been injured

This is a PR by the book. At least it seems that way.

[SwankyXomb]

68. Are any of them dead?

No?


Then tell those blue whiners to shut the fuck up.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

17. They wanted to hurt him, hence no seat restraints.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

32. Friend of mine says it is a common police tactic in these type vehicles, they drive

recklessly while the prisoner in the back is in handcuffs, NOT in seat belts and being thrown around.

No, this man was murdered by these cops and he is not the first one or the last.


My friend represents victims of police abuse

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

38. Absolutely what happens - all in good fun, don't cha know!

Except when somebody dies. That's when the cover-up begins in earnest.

[Beauregard]

52. Here's my theory.

They cuffed him, put him in the wagon and put a seatbelt on him. He made some noise by banging the walls while being transported. We know that they stopped the wagon and took him out to put leg irons on him. When they put him back in the van, they didn't put the seatbelt on him, and gave him a rough ride (what the cops call a "nickel ride&quot with lots of quick stops and sharp turns. This is apparently SOP if you make trouble during transport. He had no way to steady himself because his hands and feet were cuffed. So he bounced around in the van and was knocked into an interior bolt that we know matches his injury.

What do you think?

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

62. That's exactly what happened.

Of course, when the police investigate themselves, well, you know how that goes...

[Judi Lynn]

78. Why would they cuff his feet? His legs were inoperable before they threw him in the wagon. n/t

[nc4bo]

79. I've seen videos of cops handcuffing a corpse or attempting

To do so.

on the ocaasions I run across a cell video like that, I figured the murdering thugs did it to cover their asses. I mean what sense does it make to cuff a dead man?

[Larry Engels]

18. Uh-oh.

Here comes the eruption in the streets....

[jwirr]

19. Okay is this report from the Baltimore cops themselves or the person in the state they were

going to forward it to?

The cops needed to get something out quickly because sending it on was not going to satisfy the protesters. Is this the something they throw out to the protesters to keep them in line? What does the autopsy say?

Unfortunately there is probably not enough evidence that it was deliberate murder. They are going to say it was an accident. And they get away with it again.

Has anyone said what crime this young man committed to be arrested?

[Helen Borg]

20. Really? Did you see the video?

His legs are dragging and he had no control over them at all while they were carrying him to the van. The witnesses noticed that as well. The guy was not unconscious, he just had no control of his legs already.

[leveymg]

21. Watch both videos from 2 angles. #14. Gray was unable to walk and in great pain as he was dragged

[cstanleytech]

26. Want to bet that the police

will argue that they believed he was not being compliant on purpose so as to resist arrest and that they had no way of knowing he was that badly injured? And the bitch of it is such a defense is damn near impossible to disprove.

[leveymg]

34. It's like most cases of "suicide in custody." Blame the victim or the van driver.

Very foul smell from this turn. Will only cause more rage, which is what the bastards really want - an excuse to shift the focus onto violence of third-parties and to inflame violence.

[totodeinhere]

23. He may not have been injured during the arrest itself. But according to this he was injured when

he was slammed into the police van. Isn't that just as bad? The police are responsible for taking care of him after he is arrested. This report even if accurate in no way exonerates the police. If anything it confirms what many of us have suspected all along that the police murdered him.

[KamaAina]

25. Of course not.

It was during the "nickel ride".

[oldandhappy]

27. trust goes to below zero

.

[Hissyspit]

30. Terrible headline.

[ellenrr]

31. ok, I get it.. the police didn't do it, the van did it.

bad van. let's indict the van.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

33. First of all, NOTHING the cops EVER say, is true, unless by coincidence. Just like with cons.

In Ferguson it was impossible to prove the puke fuck cop was NOT in fear for his life and that was the ONLY reason the DOJ didnt arrest him.

Here, it is impossible to even try that tactic, to say the cops were in fear in anyway so they have to LIE, of course, and say he did it to himself

[chowder66]

35. They're reporting it as if though it were an accident

there will be new safety rules.

Not much else will come of this I'm afraid. I wonder if anyone will be able to prove it or prove otherwise.

It's still early and I'll be interested to hear what the DOJ finds out.

on edit; I'm pretty sure the family could easily win a suit against the department for negligence of some kind.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

41. Let's see how the new USAG handles this.

You can't eliminate fools, but you can make laws against fools.

[chowder66]

47. Good points! nt

[DallasNE]

44. It Is Hard To See How They Could Have Been Following Existing Rules

So how does adding new rules to be ignored improve anything. It is the mindset that has to change, not the rules.

[chowder66]

46. I agree

hence the fear that is all that may come of this. Still early though.

[rhett o rick]

36. We don't see the beginning of the take down. If someone 200 pds puts their

knee in his back with weight on it, it could break a spine.

[heaven05]

37. NO!!!!!

I'm convinced. Not!

[CullenBohannon]

39. something doesnt add up

[still_one]

43. Bring charges to the officers involved, and sue the hell out of the city. This is the first time

this has occurred. It is a pattern of behavior with this police force

[fingrin]

45. My opinion is He

was Possibly injured during arrest.
Lets break it down.

Initial video of Gray's arrest also appeared to depict him in pain as an onlooker shouted that Gray's leg was broken. Police have said autopsy results indicate that Gray did not suffer injuries in areas besides his spine, and police statements related to his arrest have asserted that he was taken into custody "without force or incident"

Notice in the arrest photos he is being supported by offers standing. Of particular note is the low wall and Police bicycle behind him. Now remove that Bicycle on the assumption it was not there at initial Police contact OR the arrest was made to the right of it.

Now put Freddie Grey on the ground and the wall is the perfect height to cause the injuries by being slammed into it by an Officer who was holding him around the throat and him hitting his neck on the corner of it.

[ciaobaby]

48. Crushed voice box

How would this bull shit story explain a crushed voice box ?????

[Beauregard]

49. Maybe not during "arrest," but while in "custody."

The cops are responsible for your welfare after they have arrested you and are transporting you to jail.

[Demit]

53. It's saying there's no evidence he was FATALLY injured during arrest.

Not that he suffered NO injury.

[ciaobaby]

55. The bullshit continues

Are you suggesting they get to choose which injury they are responsible for ?
So the crushed voice box (not fatal) they may claim they caused during the arrest, and the severed spine (fatal) they did not cause.
Convenient.

[Demit]

65. I'm suggesting that you parse what they say very closely.

They aren't asserting they did nothing wrong. They're trying to plant the idea that the officers didn't inflict the FATAL injury at the time of arrest. They are eliding around the fact that they probably did inflict injury at the time of arrest. I don't know why you're getting belligerent with me.

This is now in the state's Attorney General's hands. There could very well be a finding later, by the AG's office, that the injury/injuries they inflicted at the time of arrest ultimately led to his death later.

You might want to take a different tone in confronting long time members. Don't jump to conclusions about what you think they mean. Ask them what they might mean.

[ciaobaby]

70. Well aren't you sensitive.

And I will take any tone I care to. I was not aware long time members get to demand special treatment and lecture others.
If you don't like my opinion or presentation you can just ignore it, as I will do with your future input.

[Demit]

71. Just try not to be stupid.

[PoliticAverse]

54. "Gray sustained a head injury that matches bolt in the back of police van" n/t

[fingrin]

56. Theres a big difference

between a "Head injury" and a nearly severed spinal cord.
Logic dictates that due to the low wall in the area of his arrest, unable to stand without Police
support, Head drooping when dragged to the van and his cries of pain Indicate it happened during arrest.
There is a possibility the Police were telling the truth. It is also possible he hit his neck on the wall and Police did not realise he was injured. All it would take is for an Officer to accidently, without realising pushing him into the wall
Just sayin.

[ciaobaby]

60. Not buying it

And how exactly does that sever the spine ? A head injury rarely results in a severed spine.
How fast was the van going - I would think it would have to be at high speed. This is so unbelievable.

[PoliticAverse]

63. It's been suspected that they gave him a 'nickel ride' to punish him...

"The medical examiner found Gray's catastrophic injury was caused when he was slammed into back of the police transport van and apparently broke his neck. Law enforcement sources also said Gray sustained a head injury that matches bolt in the back of police van, the affiliate reported."

[Joe Chi Minh]

66. According to this evening's Guardian, Freddie Gray's head was rammed back onto a bolt in the van.

[1HappyDemocrat]

67. National attention

This case is yet to be determined, but there should be no doubt that Freddie Gray could not have done these injuries to himself. Another question is the unexplained stop that was not reported initially. This whole situation is terrible and I hope the person responsible for his death will not slip through unpunished. Bless Freddie's family.

[valerief]

69. So it's more important where the cops killed him rather than the fact that they killed him? nt

[treestar]

75. He was injured while in their custody

whether it was the moment of arrest or not.

[chillfactor]

76. looks like more riots are in the making....

Gray not injured..really?

[gwheezie]

77. how is the crushed larynx explained

He was murdered. I don't believe a word from the police. They are selectively leaking and purposely confusing the story.

[underpants]

80. Oh yeah there is that

Funny how all the press reports (all the same really) didn't mention that.

The press is like little birds chirping for crumbs from their momma.

[papertolio]

81. We jumped the shark

Patience next time.

[nc4bo]

82. How about we still don't know the truth and may never know? nt

[cyberswede]

85. Since when?

It's a term meant to indicate something is past it's prime (typically, TV shows).

...and what's this "we" bs?

[arcane1]

86. Then how do you know "we" jumped the shark?

[workinclasszero]

84. So spontaneous throat crushing and spine severing???

Is that the cops story?

Really??????????????????????????????????????????????

Hey I bet it happened at the previously undisclosed stop the van made, huh?????