'Several dead' in Switzerland shooting: police

[muriel_volestrangler]

Last edited Sun May 10, 2015, 06:39 AM - Edit history (1)

Source: Deutsche Welle

Police in Aargau canton were called to the town of Würenlingen overnight after local residents reported hearing gun shots.

Officers dispatched to the scene then reportedly found "several" dead people lying outside and in a house.

Investigators said all the dead were adults.

A police spokeswoman told local radio the suspected killer was among the dead.


Read more: http://www.dw.de/several-dead-in-switzerland-shooting-police/a-18441823

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(updated to note the suspect is among the dead; number is still unclear - between 5 and 8, according to different reports)

[Spitfire of ATJ]

1. Switzerland was a favorite spy spot during the Cold War.

[nitpicker]

2. BBC link

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32680212

Several people shot dead in Swiss town Wuerenlingen


54 minutes ago

Several people have been killed in a shooting in the Swiss town of Wuerenlingen, north-west of Zurich.

Police found bodies lying inside and outside a residential building overnight.

The gunman was among the dead and some of the victims knew him, police spokesman Bernhard Graser told the BBC.

The motive appears to have been a family dispute and the case is not terror-related, he added. An investigation is under way.

Wuerenlingen, a German-speaking town of some 4,000 people, is located about 30km (20 miles) from Zurich.

[muriel_volestrangler]

4. Thanks for the update that the gunman is dead too (nt)

[DFW]

3. Waiting to hear who was involved and what kind of weapons were used

Almost all Swiss men, where military service is compulsory for all of them, are required to keep their service rifles in their homes. Since Swiss independence and official neutrality (not quite honorably followed during WW2) in 1851, Switzerland saw a LOT of war on their borders until 1945. They wanted no part of it or even the slightest risk of it. They flatly refuse to join NATO, and only the big industrial concerns want to join the EU, and that's for money reasons, not national security. So, I get the "gun in every home" policy. There are also strict rules on how those guns are to be stored and kept. The Swiss have been pretty good about that, too, as the amount of gun-related crime there is relatively tiny. That's why I'm waiting for further info before formulating further comment.

A few years ago, Switzerland joined Schengen, a move bitterly regretted by every one of my Swiss friends. I REALLY hope this incident has nothing to do with Schengen "visitors." That would only reinforce a far right backlash already in full swing.

[joshcryer]

5. No country is immune from mental illness.

Sweden is touted as one of the most "gun friendly" countries in the world because everyone keeps their service weapons after they exit compulsory military service.

Odds are this was yet another person who lost it over some sad and unfortunate circumstance, and they then decided to murder-suicide. It would be surprising if this didn't happen more often in Sweden, but Sweden has a much better social safety net than other countries.

[DFW]

6. True enough.

Even so, it's really rare for a Swede or a Swiss to go on a fatal rampage with a gun.

That's why I'm waiting for more details. Even my friend in Geneva hasn't heard anything yet.

[joshcryer]

7. Regarding "Schengen" I agree that would be quite unfortunate.

But that's kind of getting ahead of ourselves, I hope. Some people have a tipping point, and I think that's what we're seeing here, sadly. Some people just... lose it. Really sad all around.

At the very least it appears no children were harmed in this egregious incident.

[DFW]

9. No children according to first reports, thankfully.

My Swiss friends are livid with rage at what Switzerland's entry into Schengen has brought them. The one who lives in Geneva, a very laid-back guy, practically busts a gut when he goes downtown and has to contend with groups of Romanians on every street corner, and now has to watch his pockets and his car every second he's there. I've been to Geneva enough times to know what he's talking about. My first post-Schengen visit was a shocker.

[7962]

10. I remember when that happened. I knew it would be a problem at some point.

And you see it all over Europe. Although many here will scream "racist!" when you try to point it out. You simply cannot have a country absorb a large influx over a short time. Especially when, in some areas, they instantly qualify for state benefits.

Obviously you have some actual personal experience with this.

[Cal33]

13. I lived quite a few years in Switzerland some 50 years ago. Every able-bodied Swiss male

had to have 3 months of army basic training at age 18, and a yearly 3-week refresher course
until age 35, then a 2-week refresher course until age 45. Officers served until age 55. They
were issued their rifles with 24 rounds of live ammunition, and which had to be kept at home.
I suppose they must have automatic rifles today. Their refresher courses took place at the
army post closest to home. In the case of a national emergency, all of Switzerland becomes
an armed camp within 2 hours. Yes, they are always prepared for war -- which seems to be a
good way of keeping out of it. Neighboring nations wouldn't want to invade well-prepared
Little Switzerland.

Crime rate among the Swiss was extremely low, even though at that time a murderer
would usually have a sentence of 7 years, and a rapist a sentence of 2 years. Serious crimes,
more often than not, were usually committed by foreigners. It was a standard joke among the
Swiss themselves that their women complain that Swiss men rarely cared to bother them. But
the foreign men would.

But the suicide rate of the Swiss was twice that of the US. And those who used guns on
themselves would use their own guns. They wouldn't use the government-issued guns.

I think the question of self-discipline and self-control plays an important role here.

[carla]

11. The Schengen Treaty

has ZERO to do with this. I reject your supposition that "foreigners", "Gypsies", etc. The Swiss are a pretty pent up bunch emotionally and psychologically. I have witnessed a non-smoker pour a glass of water on an elderly woman's head in a fine gourmandaise restaurant. I have seen white Swiss men go ballistic at an inconvenience easily ignored. I have seen so much hatred and discrimination in Switzerland that I no longer care to visit. Racist campaigns against immigrants and refugees...I could go on but I don't want to tarnish the entire society. Alas, this is the way we "think" nowadays, all trouble is caused by foreigners, Roma, Arabs...All I see is the West getting worse and the blame being put on the new arrivals. A Swiss family shot dead in a dispute within the family is NOT unusual, just vastly under reported less it tear at the reputation of this very mean society apart internationally.

[HereSince1628]

12. The subthread is toying with the notion of 'other' upon which to place the blame and

identify the risk.

This is really a very common approach to the dissonance of such an event. If the perpetrator can be made into an 'other', it provides several benefits that reduce cognitive dissonance about, as you suggest, a group otherwise with a favorable reputation. Humans are evolved as group-livers, and whether driven by cultural meme or emotional physiology I suspect this need to point at the dangers of 'other' is engrained in our social-psyche that spreads protective 'alarm' through our groups.

In this thread the suppositions/doubt are being caste about foreigners and the mentally ill. Both groups are commonly used as default others. The reason for that is acquired and common social biases (pre-judgments). Of course, the dangerousness -could- be due to either or both, or even something else. It's too early to know but certainly not too early for conjecture.

Another trope that could be deployed is that media coverage of mass shootings (mostly from the U.S.) was an alien source of the mindset that resulted in the event. Certainly at the conclusion of the investigation the label of 'criminal' will placed on at least one person.

The pattern is usually involves some attempt to demarcate or place in higher contrast the source of danger of a mass shooting. The contributions to these conversations can go toward sympathy (even sanctification) of the favored group or it can go to demonizing the shooter(s).

The failure of others in the sphere of the shooter(s) (close family, co-workers, teachers, etc) is also likely to get play in these conversations as such failure to identify and prevent the disaster is seen by others as enabling of the shooter.

In the end the pressure is on to produce greater polarization of the dialectic of good 'us' vs the bad others--the shooter(s) and any facilitator.

[DFW]

17. This is precisely why I reserved judgment in this particular instance

My opinion on the negative effect of Schengen on Switzerland remains, however. I have been visiting Switzerland since 1970, and speak the three main languages spoken there (and six others spoken elsewhere), and have friends from all four ethnic areas.

I also visit Romania regularly, meet with high government officials as well as "normal" people. The top government guys have perks, and don't mind living there, but many of the common folk--both good and bad--can't wait to get the hell out of there. It's not a nice place to live unless you have great wealth or great connections, and preferably both.

I just helped a Romanian woman get a job in the Netherlands. She speaks three languages fluently, has a law degree, and is smart as can be. She will learn Dutch quickly, I am confident. While we were in Utrecht, she was harassed, right there in the middle of town and walking with me, by some male Romanians who were hanging around doing nothing (except harassing young women). They were saying some obscene things, and were shocked when she told them off in Romanian. These guys were not Gypsies, but they hadn't come to the Netherlands to learn Dutch and become engineers or professors, either.

A social worker I know there was ranting about how a Romanian had gotten himself 15 different Romanian passports and was collecting Dutch welfare from 15 different Dutch towns under his 15 different names. He only got caught because he had himself driven to the welfare offices each month to collect his money in a chauffeur-driven Mercedes--easily affordable with the 14000+ tax-free euros a month he was stealing from the Dutch taxpayers, thanks to Schengen.

My wife is a social worker by profession. She worked with Germany's downtrodden and jobless for decades. When droves of Russians, Albanians, Moroccans, and Eastern Europeans started coming with their hands out after the wall fell, she quickly learned how to spot who was really in need and who was trying to game the system. I helped her translate often enough for her "clients (in the case of Russians)." She was on the front lines for decades. Our info is from first-hand experience, not some theory from some web site with an agenda.

I live in Europe, married to a European, and speak 9 European languages. I didn't get here yesterday.

As for family drama, agreed that no one anywhere can predict with any kind of precison when someone will snap to the point where a gun in the hand of the wrong person will lead to some kind of mass murder. It happens nearly everywhere, and in most cultures.

[Cal33]

15. You are right. The Swiss do have some peculiarities all their own. In many areas outside of the

large cities, anyone marrying someone from the next town or village is no longer considered as
one of their own, and the couple is treated accordingly. In one small town called "Lenz" (if I
remember the name correctly) this inbreeding had been going on for so long that 20% of the population
was mentally retarded.

I also had a friend who was German-Swiss. His son was working in a bank, and as part of his training
was sent to Geneva for two years. The young man was practically socially ostracized. Was he glad
to come back home after two years!

In general, the French-Swiss didn't care to speak in another language. The German and Italian Swiss,
on the other hand, were mostly multilingual.

I guess we all have some qualities that others might consider as odd.

[DFW]

16. Many countries in Europe have this particular phobia about their neighbors

In Belgium, there are villages whose Flemish is so different from the next town over, they can hardly understand each other. I speak standard Dutch, so I can understand the Flemish speakers when they WANT to be understood. But when they don't want to be understood, they lapse into a local dialect that might as well be Albanian.

Here in Germany, there are also vestiges of languages that used to be widely spoken, but they are disappearing with mass media. You can still hear if someone is from Bavaria or Schlesswig-Holstein, but you have to travel deep into the hinterlands to hear real Pladdütsch or Bayerisch.

In Switzerland, my friend from Geneva feels less at ease in Zürich than he does in Paris. All Swiss are required to study another national language in school, but most French-speakers take Italian, as the schools teach standard German, whose pronunciation is no more similar to Swiss German than it is to Dutch, although it has the advantage of being written the same. My Geneva friend speaks better English than he does Italian, but due to the language similarity, understands plenty of Italian.

Swiss programs shown on German TV are subtitled, as Germans can't under stand them unless they have spent time there. I am OK with Zürich/Basel/Bern dialects, but get out into Appenzell or Uri, and I'm lost. On the other hand, we have a Zürich friend who was sent to run a branch of UBS in Geneva for a couple of years. He was 60, but learned French, and had a great time, was reluctant to leave. The Ticinesi tend to learn German, not because it's easier for them, but because so many German money interests are in Ticino that it makes sense just to get a job there. Another friend of mine who lived in Zürich spoke Züridüütsch with me for 20 years before finally telling me he was from Scuol, and spoke Romansch as his native language. His Züridüütsch was so perfect, I never even noticed it wasn't his mother tongue.

[MADem]

14. Father kills his parents, in-laws, and more (sorry it's the MAIL but they have the most detail)

Married father-of-three opens fire in mass shooting in tiny Swiss town 'killing four before turning the gun on himself'
Five have been killed in shooting including gunman who committed suicide
Residents of Wuerenlingen town reported hearing shots fired late last night
Police arrived and found 'several' dead people lying outside and in a house
Bloodbath thought to have been triggered by a family dispute, say Swiss police
By HANNAH PARRY FOR MAILONLINE

Lots of pictures, no report on what gun, but at the end...

Switzerland has one of the highest gun ownership rates in the world.
The majority of Swiss men are conscripted into the militia from the age of 20 where they undergo weapons training.
Militia soldiers are required to keep their own personal equipment, including all personally assigned weapons, at home. Army issued ammunition is generally not allowed although privately bought bullets are permitted.
The result is that Switzerland has a unique set of gun politics and one of the highest private ownership in the world.
In recent times a minority of political opposition has expressed a desire for tighter gun regulations and Switzerland held a referendum in February 2011 for stricter controls although this was defeated.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3075392/Several-people-dead-lying-outside-house-mass-shooting-north-Switzerland-town.html#ixzz3ZkNLnZ9U

[Bosonic]

8. Five Dead After Switzerland Shooting: Report

Five Dead After Switzerland Shooting: Report

Five people have died following a shooting in the Swiss state of Aargau, according to local media.

Officers were called to the northern town of Würenlingen after gunshots were heard shortly after 11pm on Saturday night. Three bodies were reportedly found outside, and two more were found inside a family home

One witness told local media they heard four shots fired in quick succession, followed by a further two shots after a brief pause.

Upon arrival, "several" bodies were found lying outside a house, as well as inside the building. Ambulance workers have been unable to give a cause of death.

http://news.sky.com/story/1481137/five-dead-after-switzerland-shooting-report

[valerief]

18. American ammosexuals on holiday? nt

[GGJohn]

19. Sick.

This was a Swiss citizen who murdered his family.

[bobthedrummer]

20. Boundary lines don't matter to PSYOPS "cults" of which Switzerland has harbored like the Order of

the Solar Temple

Order of the Solar Temple (Wikipedia entry)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Solar_Temple