Amtrak Crash: Train Engineer Accelerated Before Derailment, NTSB Says

[Purveyor]

Source: ABC NEWS

May 14, 2015, 6:10 PM ET
By MEGHAN KENEALLY

The engineer of the ill-fated Amtrak train that derailed in Philadelphia on Tuesday night accelerated right before the crash, authorities said today.

Investigators have said the train was traveling in excess speeds of 100 mph at the time of the crash -- twice the speed limit in that section of track -- right before the crash.

The NTSB's Robert Sumwalt said Brandon Bostian has agreed to speak with investigators and that they plan to do so sometime in "the next few days."

Video Shows the Harrowing Moments Before the Amtrak Crash
Bostian, 32, of Queens, New York, was “very distraught” to learn that the crash killed passengers in the crash, his attorney, Robert Goggin, told ABC News. He added that Bostian voluntarily turned over a blood sample and his cell phone and is cooperating with authorities.

Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/US/amtrak-crash-train-engineer-agrees-speak-probers-sped/story?id=31042574

[Cooley Hurd]

1. Perhaps he was disoriented and thought there was a straightaway ahead?

If so, why was he disoriented to begin with?

[KamaAina]

2. There is no place within Philly where you can go 100 mph.

The only stretch of the Corridor where trains get anywhere near that is between Baltimore and Wilmington.

[Cooley Hurd]

4. Granted, he just dropped passengers off in Philly...

...but maybe he had an episode in which he completely forgot where he was?

What I'm getting at is, I doubt he was an "Andreas Lubitz"-type.

[Agschmid]

54. Agree.

[onehandle]

39. After that curve where the derailment happened you can speed up considerably.

But 100MPH is probably still not the norm.

I've experienced maybe 90MPH along there.

Again, after that last curve leading out of Port Richmond.

[RobinA]

49. Given the "Facts"

that have come out so far, the whole thing is odd on its face. I hope that the investigation arrives at the right answer.

And yeah, "Philadelphia" and "100 mph" do not belong in the same sentence in ANY context.

[diabeticman]

3. There was talk he was diabetic. His blood sugar might have drop suddenly.

[Cooley Hurd]

5. That would explain a lot, if true...

[woodsprite]

58. I'm considered pre-diabetic and watch and balance what I eat. No meds prescribed yet.

If I stay balanced and get my activity in, I'm fine with the afternoon energy levels. If I way overdo on carbs I will zone out at my desk with my hands on the keyboard. I'm hearing the drone of noise around me and just zone out. I will snap out of it if someone approaches or the background noise changes. I have edited files, deleted stuff, or ended up with paragraphs of garbage, so I'm not really asleep -- just out of it.

I was thinking maybe he had a episode like that even before I found out he was diabetic. If he had control of the accelerator at the time it happened, maybe it was just like me with my keyboard, and he woke up right when the derailment began.

[Cooley Hurd]

59. Possible...

There was something clearly wrong if he didn't recognize where he was and what the speed limitations were for that stretch of track...

[Cooley Hurd]

60. Not at all...

Diabetes can affect one's thought processes. Unless he was wasted (which hasn't been established yet), there's a myiad of reasons that could've effed up this kid.

ONE THING is for sure, if they had PTC, this likely wouldn't have happened:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_train_control

[itsrobert]

64. A diabetic killed my Father In law

She got disoriented and ran head on into his car he was driving.

[Cooley Hurd]

65. Diabetes is a very tricky disease in how symptoms strike.

You can feel fine, then, within seconds, things can go downhill swiftly.

[appalachiablue]

67. A wonderful, sharp woman I worked with was diabetic and didn't know it until

she woke up unconscious in her car wrapped round a tree one day. She was very conscientious about meds after that and drove little. Her husband drove mostly from then on.

Another real story, a mom and young kids were driving on interstate to Grandma's house for TG. Mom was diabetic and started slumping while driving. Her quick thinking 12 year old son in the passenger seat reached over and steered the car until they got off on an exit ramp to safety.

[LanternWaste]

61. You will explain to us of course, why it not within the realm of practical possibilities, yes?

You will explain to us of course, why it not within the realm of practical possibilities, yes?

[TheCowsCameHome]

9. Perhaps there was a medical issue.

There doesn't seem to be any good reason to continue throttling up - maybe he was having difficulties. He claims he doesn't remember what was going on.

To not slow down for a speed restriction is one thing. To continue accelerating into a restriction is something quite different.

One man in the cab is a bad thing.

[Ken Burch]

17. There could also have been a mechanical issue.

It's possible that something malfunctioned within the engine controls and increased the speed without the engineer realizing it unless it's too late.

It will be interesting to see if any defects or maintenance issues are found in the engine when and if it is reassembled.

And I assume they will also look at how heavy the engineer's work schedule was recently and if he'd been getting enough rest(that's often an issue in the transportation industry nowadays).

[TheCowsCameHome]

19. The NTSB will investigate every speck of that equipment

under a microscope. I've never heard of unwanted acceleration, but hey, who knows?

It's what the NTSB does, and they do it well.

[CTyankee]

20. anything could happen. A young woman in our nail salon passed out suddenly.

She just had what I learned later was a typical thing...passed out right in the middle of a manicure...bam,she was down on the floor. The EMTs were there within minutes and carted her away but she actually was fine. It s a thing about young adults that they have these "moments" and then they are fine...weird but true...

[gvstn]

27. One man in the cab is a bad thing.

I always thought cutting the third person from a plane's cockpit was a poor economy as well.

Just wanted to post this which says his acceleration was sudden so he probably wasn't trying to make up time or anything like that.

Right before its fatal derailment, Amtrak Train 188 accelerated significantly as it approached the curve at Frankford Junction Tuesday night, the National Transportation Safety Board said Thursday.

In barely a minute, its speed jumped from 70 m.p.h. to 102 m.p.h. three seconds before the crash, said NTSB member Robert Sumwalt at a news briefing. The speed limit in that area is 50 m.p.h.

Sumwalt said it was unclear whether the engineer, identified as Brandon Bostian, 32, of Forest Hills, N.Y., had accelerated manually. Bostian's attorney has told ABC-TV that his client had no memory of the crash.

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20150515_Investigation_wrapping_up_at_crash_site.html#uJtgWsciZmFHOfDX.99

[passiveporcupine]

29. the train was not running behind schedule

from what I read. The acceleration happened in a 65 second span, and that is really pretty short...even though with his experience, we may think he should have recognized the increase happening...in such a short time, maybe he was nodding off and or distracted by something and bam...65 seconds later it's too late to stop it. If he was alert, he would have known the curve was coming, and would have been slowing down for it. What happened to him in those few minutes from his last stop and this curve?

If only life was perfect. If only humans were perfect. This is why we need these safety protections added to our train system...so let's do something about the budget that was just cut to fix this.

[RobinA]

50. Somebody With More

train knowledge than I can fill me in, but I am under the impression that you can't nod off and accelerate a train. Trains don't operate themselves, they default to alarms and stop without inputs.

Don't know though, the brain has its own way of doing things. I have found that one can begin to nod off in a car with eyes wide open and visual input just not prompting action. Scary.

As an Amtrak traveler, I am a little less than thrilled to discover that there is only one guy in the engine, essentially cut off from any assistance or intervention. Shit happens, I don't care how young and healthy a person seems.

[Agschmid]

55. Impressive acceleration...

[LisaL]

12. He told his lawyer he had no health issues, so I don't know what talk there is.

[diabeticman]

16. I guess CNN was saying something.

[passiveporcupine]

30. from all the stories I read, he told the police he had no medical issues

no drugs, no alcohol involved. He voluntarily gave blood and turned over his phone (which will show if he was using it at that time)...so I suspect he really does not know what happened and it may have been due to something as simple as nodding off. How many of us have nodded off while driving a car? It happens. It can happen to anyone.

I don't know what happened, but I really feel for this young man.

[LiberalElite]

37. I also feel for him because

I've read that trains were his life and this was his dream job. He participated in railroad discussion boards and from his posts he appeared to be responsible and concerned for safety.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

51. He "had" no medical issues. Maybe he just discovered one.

[appalachiablue]

68. You are so right as I & other posters have commented Re incidences on this thread.

Occasionally there are blunt, rude folk to be ignored here; their ignorance and audacity amazes.

[1monster]

25. Another story on DU says that the engineer's union has been complaining about scheduling...

The scheduling is not allowing engineers enough down time between shifts.

There are laws about how many hours professional drivers, i.e., truck drivers, bus drivers, etc., can drive in a shift and how many hours they must have off between shifts. Those are often ignored by the company bosses. So it would not surprise me one bit to find out that this sort of thing was going on with AmTrak.

[yeoman6987]

31. This is a government run agency

No way are they going to ignore laws.

[Psephos]

42. actually, I see a lot of government officials ignoring laws these days

the rot is deep

[1monster]

47. ....

[PoliticAverse]

57. "This is a government run agency. No way are they going to ignore laws."

I am assuming that was sarcasm.

[JI7]

6. getting thoughts of that airline

[cosmicone]

7. I thought of Germanwings too n/t

[newfie11]

18. So did I.

[840high]

22. So am I.

[Purveyor]

34. The thought crossed my mind too. eom

[LiberalElite]

38. because you all thought of it doesn't necessarily mean a thing nt

[Purveyor]

40. Nobody claimed it to 'mean a thing' other than a thought. Are we still 'allowed' to have those

anymore?

[LiberalElite]

41. Touchy. nt

[LanternWaste]

62. Almost as touchy as one proclaiming "it doesn't mean a thing..."

Almost as touchy as one proclaiming "it doesn't mean a thing..."

Touchy, indeed.

[allan01]

10. drop in diabteic blood sugar can do strange things to a persn. im diabetic

one of our former priests was diabetic and he nearly went into full diabetic shock after a sugar crash . aint funny.

[LisaL]

11. And? What does that have to do with this case?

"Bostian suffered a concussion and head wound that required 14 staples, as well as injuries to both of his legs in the crash, the attorney said -- but Bostian told the attorney he had "no health issues to speak of" before the crash and was on no medications."

Read more: http://www.wjla.com/articles/2015/05/brandon-bostian-amtrak-engineer-can-t-remember-crash-details-lets-attorney-speak-for-him-113954.html#ixzz3a9pny02P
Follow us: @ABC7News on Twitter | WJLATV on Facebook

[TheCowsCameHome]

13. "No health issues to speak of"

Perhaps he had an issue and wasn't aware of it.

The investigation will bring out anything that could have contributed to the situation.

[LisaL]

14. And perhaps he didn't. Just like he told his lawyer.

[TheCowsCameHome]

15. Time will tell.

If there's anything to be found out, the NTSB will uncover it.

Bank on it.

Stay tuned.

[CTyankee]

21. relatively young people passing out is not a new thing, btw...I learned that from experience...

[LisaL]

23. The train first accelerated from 70 mph to over a 100 mph.

Then, seconds before the crash, an emergency brake was applied.
I am very curious as to how passed out person would be able to do that?

[CTyankee]

24. I am too. I don't know. This is a big mystery to me...what do you think?

[Psephos]

43. the other crewman (engineer) hit the e-brake just before derailment

according to the news stories I've read

[LisaL]

44. What other crewman?

[TheCowsCameHome]

48. There was no other crewman in the cab.

[LisaL]

69. I know.

[RobinA]

52. The Brake

could have been applied by a safety system. For example, if the engineer were passed out on the floor.

[Cooley Hurd]

28. HIPPA makes health issues, well, unspeakable...

...so, technically, "No health issues to speak of" was likely a correct statement. "

[Stardust]

66. Undiagnosed epilepsy? Absense seizures?

[ahimsa]

26. What about the "projectiles"?

I've seen articles mentioning "projectiles" hitting other trains in the area just before the derailment. It seems very coincidental. Here's one where "no connection" is claimed:

SEPTA and Acela Trains Struck Before Amtrak Crash

UPDATE, 5/13/2015, 3 p.m.: At an afternoon press conference, Philadelphia Mayor Michael Nutter said that the SEPTA and Amtrak Acela trains that were struck within five miles and twenty minutes of the deadly Amtrak derailment are unrelated to the crash. “That may have been stones or rocks,” he responded when asked about reports of projectiles hitting the two trains. “Nothing to do with this particular incident.” Meanwhile, SEPTA has updated the time of its incident from 9:25 p.m. to 9:10 p.m.

Maybe it happens all the time?

[RobinA]

53. Maybe They Are Related

maybe they aren't, but Nutter needs to zip it. He's been mouthing off since this thing started about stuff he obviously knows nothing about. He needs to stop opining and judging what happened until somebody figures out what happened. He's just making homself look dumb, which he generally is not. Or I always thought he was not. The engineer/conductor mix up doesn't speak well from someone who grew up in this town that is criss crossed by railroad tracks.

[SCVDem]

32. Trains are equipped with a deadmans switch

Aren't they? If he passed out, the train stops. That's the theory anyway.

I flashed on Casey Jones and GermanWings.

Rachel was really pissed last night, Wed., over congress lack of infrastructure legislation. She also pointed out how we suck compared to the world's high speed rail systems. 200 mph+. We average 68.

[ManiacJoe]

35. Appearantly it is only the freight trains

that have the deadman buttons.

[appalachiablue]

45. Interesting. Is that b/c the freight has value & people don't, I wonder. Cynical true-

[Purveyor]

36. ABC news tonight had segment on the trains controls and if I heard correctly, there is a button the

engineer must hit every so often (minutes) or the train will come to a stop.

We used to have some very knowledgeable 'train folks' on DU that helped explain earlier train tragedies but it seems most 'knowledgeable' people have departed from this forum in the last year or so.

[valerief]

33. Maybe he suffers from Alberto Gonzalesitis. nt

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

46. I can see why the Germanwings incident would enter into some peoples minds

The tabloids are already priming/bating to that.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3082022/Speeding-Amtrak-driver-living-dream-Engineer-obsessed-railroads-bring-subway-maps-vacation-souvenirs.html

Both the engineer and the pilot had boyhood ambitions to become engineer/ pilot.
so you can see where the tabloids might go with it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3013743/Germanwings-pilot-slipped-safety-net-devastating-consequences.html

[ladjf]

56. Automate the controls ont he trains. We have the technology. Stop the political

bullshitting and start saving lives and money. Same for the airliners.

[FLPanhandle]

63. To quote the Grateful Dead...

"driving that train, high on cocaine, Casey Jones, you better watch your speed."