Fla. woman who fled to avoid son's circumcision is arrested

[JMolina]

Source: AP

A Florida woman who fled to avoid the circumcision of her son was arrested Thursday for contempt of court, her attorney said.

Heather Hironimus went missing with her 4-year-old child nearly three months ago, going into hiding as her long court battle against the surgery reached its climax. Though her defenders said she was simply doing what she could to protect a child portrayed as "scared to death" of the procedure, a judge issued a scalding rebuke for her refusal to appear in court, charging her with contempt and issuing an arrest warrant.

She was taken into custody Thursday, her attorney Thomas Hunker said, declining to release further details. Her name did not yet appear in inmate databases and calls to jail officials went unanswered.

Both sides are under a gag order in the case and Hunker did not disclose the whereabouts of the child.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/fla-woman-fled-avoid-sons-circumcision-arrested-025615393.html

[Dont call me Shirley]

1. That poor boy, what a vile father to put him through all this trauma!

[Android3.14]

7. I suspect the trauma originates from Mom

If my mother repeated endlessly to me, at an age when I barely comprehend language, that my father was coming after me to chop off a part of my body, it would traumatize me.

[Lancero]

9. I think South Park touched on this...

Can't remember if it was a specific episode or one of the movies though.

[jmowreader]

21. It was one of the episodes

The other kids at school convinced Kyle a "bris" was a ceremony where his parents were going to cut Ike's penis off then throw a big party to celebrate.

[Dont call me Shirley]

15. As usual, the blame the mother crowd

[Android3.14]

16. Oh pashaw

She is under arrest, after all.

[Dont call me Shirley]

17. Of course, continue to blame the mother instead of the barbaric father who wants to traumatize

his son.

[Android3.14]

18. Then she probably should never have agreed

Ya think?

Both the mother and father sound like a couple of chuckleheads. Hopefully the son is illegitimate and had a 50-50 chance of avoiding the stupid gene.

[Dont call me Shirley]

19. "Hopefully the son is illegitimate and had a 50-50 chance of avoiding the stupid gene."

L-O-W!!!

[Dont call me Shirley]

19. "Hopefully the son is illegitimate and had a 50-50 chance of avoiding the stupid gene."

L-O-W!!!

[Android3.14]

23. I calls 'em likes I sees 'em

[uppityperson]

32. what in the world does that mean? Illegitimate means only parents weren't married.

It has nothing to do with who provided the genes.

[PatrynXX]

29. having had a loooooong twitter debate about this with Sydney Moon

centerfold

and TYT fan I'd love to have her over here. cause shes one helluva debater

[cosmicone]

2. Mother's refusal should have been enough of a tip-off

(pun intended)

[mainer]

3. No mention about whether it's medically necessary for the boy

any physician asked to do it on a healthy 4-year old should refuse to do it on ethical grounds.

[Orrex]

4. Lots of people are arrested for contempt of court, alas.

Never a one-percenter, of course, but the courts are generally pretty aggressive in punishing people who fail to show up.

That doesn't speak to the rightness or wrongness of her views on her son's circumcision, but if she snubbed a court date then it's hardly surprising that they'd arrest her.

[Lancero]

5. She did sign a agreement consenting to the procedure...

Which is the entire reason for this case - Both parents signed a agreement in the past saying the procedure would be done, a agreement that was filed with the courts, and now the mother doesn't want to honor it.

[Orrex]

6. Good point. (nt)

[SpankMe]

10. Sorry, but this isn't a good point.

We're talking about cutting into the dick of a healthy, living 4-year old boy. It's not like we're changing our mind on the paint color for the laundry room walls.

The thing she signed up to is a permanent, surgical alteration of her son - and not some benign thing like ear piercing. We're talking about a very important piece of anatomy here. There should be allowances for a change of mind when the realities of the procedure begin to set in.

I am not opposed to circumcision. But, it should be done within days of birth where the kid won't remember it or won't feel a lot of pain. If it's not done right away, then it should be left alone until the kid is a teenager or over 18 and can make the decision for himself.

A circumcision at this point would affect the boy emotionally for a long time. At this juncture, it's no different from a rape or a female genital mutilation process in terms of trauma to the child.

That ship has sailed. The window of circumcision opportunity has passed. Leave it to the boy to decide for himself later in his life.

[Orrex]

12. All of that is moot.

When did she sign the consent agreement? That was the time to object to the procedure.

[Mz Pip]

46. Maybe she changed her mind?

It doesn't seem that unreasonable to have second thoughts about an unnecessary medical procedure.

[Orrex]

48. That, too, is irrelevant

Last edited Sun May 17, 2015, 07:10 AM - Edit history (1)

Havng signed the agreement, she is bound by it. Should I tell Sallie Mae that I've changed my mind, and that I no longer feel like repaying my student loans? How do you suppose they'd react?

If she changed her mind after signing, then there are ways to address the matter that don't involve skipping her court date.

[Kelvin Mace]

14. Your view is absolutely correct morally speaking

sadly the law is quite amoral at best, and immoral in at worst. Lawyers LIVE to argue these little technicalities. This is why torture is now legal.

[JackRiddler]

22. The victim of this procedure is not party to the contract.

[Kelvin Mace]

27. Again, I agree

however, as a minor child he is subject to his parent's decisions about health matters.

Not a big fan of circumcision here, as I had it done at the same age this kid is and i DO have memories of it.

[cdogzilla]

30. Exactly, at 4-yrs-old, this strikes me as insane.

Totally agree. I think it's understandable a person might sign such a consent without giving it proper consideration, and should have the ability to change their mind.

Full disclosure: I was circumsised as an infant. My son was circumsised with my consent shortly after birth. I wasn't thoughtful about it, felt sick after, and wish we'd declined. But, that was almost 9 years ago and all I can do now is be sure to tell him how I feel about before he becomes a dad, so he takes the time to research the procedure before making a muddled decision in the hospital, should he ever have a son.

Why did I say yes when a nurse asked if I was ready to have it done? I don't know. I was stressed out, and since it had been done to me, I just went along with the nurses and doctors seemed to expect. Figured if I didn't have a problem, it'd probably be fine for him, too.

[V0ltairesGh0st]

31. The sad truth of the situation is

that circumcision is somehow more accepted as safe, and normal and has been for most of modern human history.... Most couples don't give second thought to "cut or uncut" when it comes to male child, but if the question was asked about a female child then suddenly every jaw drops and the accusations of genital mutilation fly hard and fast. IMHO that is exactly what circumcision is... genital mutilation. It should really not be up to anyone but the child later in his life, not even the parents. If he wants it done later in life then he can decide to do it or not. If only I had the choice as an infant, I might have decided against it myself, but no one gives a male infant a choice about this very sensitive and crucial part of his body. Unfortunately , it is decided for him.

From the Wiki :

The positions of the world's major medical organizations range from considering neonatal circumcision as having no benefit and significant risks to having a modest health benefit that outweighs small risks. No major medical organization recommends either universal circumcision for all infant males (aside from the recommendations of the World Health Organization for parts of Africa), or banning the procedure.[7] Ethical and legal questions regarding informed consent and autonomy have been raised over non-therapeutic neonatal circumcision.[8][9]

Evidence supports that male circumcision reduces the risk of HIV infection among heterosexual men in sub-Saharan Africa.[10][11] The WHO recommends considering circumcision as part of a comprehensive HIV program in areas with high rates of HIV.[12] For men who have sex with men the evidence of an HIV benefit is less clear.[13][14] Its use to prevent HIV in the developed world is unclear.[15] Circumcision is associated with reduced rates of cancer causing forms of HPV[16][17] and risk of both UTIs and penile cancer.[5] Routine circumcision, however, is not justified for the prevention of those conditions.[2][18] Studies of its potential protective effects against other sexually transmitted infections have been unclear. A 2010 review of literature worldwide found circumcisions performed by medical providers to have a median complication rate of 1.5% for newborns and 6% for older children, with few cases of severe complications.[19] Bleeding, infection and the removal of either too much or too little foreskin are the most common complications cited.[19][20] Complication rates are greater when the procedure is performed by an inexperienced operator, in unsterile conditions, or when the child is at an older age.[19] Circumcision does not appear to have a negative impact on sexual function.[21][22]

An estimated one-third of males worldwide are circumcised.[1][19][23] The procedure is most prevalent in the Muslim world and Israel (where it is near-universal), the United States and parts of Southeast Asia and Africa; it is relatively rare in Europe, Latin America, parts of Southern Africa and most of Asia.[1] The origin of circumcision is not known with certainty; the oldest documentary evidence for it comes from ancient Egypt.[1] Various theories have been proposed as to its origin, including as a religious sacrifice and as a rite of passage marking a boy's entrance into adulthood.[24] It is part of religious law in Judaism[25] and is an established practice in Islam, Coptic Christianity and the Ethiopian Orthodox Church.[1][26][27]

[Sheldon Cooper]

44. Wow. Male vs female cutting?

You can call them both 'mutilation' if you like, but they are not at all equivalent. Educate yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_mutilation

[Orrex]

49. I concur.

Anyone who equates male circumcision with female genital mutilation doesn't actually know much about either. Or, worse, they do know what each one is, yet they still equate the two.

They are equivalent in the same way that trimming a hangnail is the equivalent to chopping off a hand.

[V0ltairesGh0st]

51. Both sexes should be protected from this brutality as infants, and beyond.

Did i say i said it wasn't worse for females ? I agree it is you are right it is much worse; however, What i m saying is the practice of cutting off a very sensitive part of ANY infants body (their genitalia) is not at all necessary for either sex. I'm arguing that circumcision is the same in the fact that it forced on the infant. They both experience extreme pain and some may have continued problems (especially females). Doing this to anyone's body at any age has 0 real world medical, or physical advantages, it is more a religious tradition than it is anything else, and to me that's the root of the tragedy. There is no choice for infants or young children in these practices and that should be stopped.

This judge is right in his decision. The mother acted out of desperation because she was scared for her child. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1099725

I apologize if I offended any of you, and i admit my rhetoric in my last post made me look biased on this issue when I said:

"Most couples don't give second thought to "cut or uncut" when it comes to male child, but if the question was asked about a female child then suddenly every jaw drops and the accusations of genital mutilation fly hard and fast"

I can get lost in the moment when I'm passionate about something like anyone else. In retrospect I see now how that saying that like i did could be construed as inflammatory, and insensitive to females, and I truly apologize for the way i worded it.

So Please, in the future don't lump on in me assuming you know how i feel, or what i do or don't know. I am not stupid, and i have seen what they do to the girls and it saddens and disgusts me as also. I ... won't assume you think that there is no pain involved when a boy is circumcised, i know that isn't the case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_mutilation



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision

Christopher Hitchens (mid video) on circumcision

[Johnyawl]

8. I have to wonder why she changed her mind.

Why did they sign consent forms agreeing to this at some point in the future? Is the boy's father Jewish or Muslim? Did she change her mind because she became convinced that it's a medically unnecessary procedure based on flawed thinking from the past, or is she just being spiteful to an ex spouse?

I'm generally opposed to circumcision, but this whole case seems a bit weird to me.

[Lancero]

11. A number of things are touched upon in previous articles...

Neither parent is Jewish, but the agreement allowed for the father to make the choice for circumcision (Agreement was signed when the child was 2 years old and worded that he would be allowed to make the arrangements for the procedure and that the mother was allowed to accompany the child for it) though the father never actually started pushing for the procedure until the child was 3 because that was when a pediatrician diagnosed the child with phimosis - A condition that circumcision treats.

The mother was warned off by the judge at the time over giving the child the idea that she was opposed to the procedure, something that she failed to to and was called out numerous times for when she decided to air everything out to the public.

[Johnyawl]

13. Thanks for the info Lancero.

[Geronimoe]

25. Medical condition

90% of infants have phimosis and it disappears in childhood, naturally without circumcision.

[Nine]

38. Incorrect.

The phimosis story was a public statement by the father. The urologist originally slated to do the surgery testified the boy did not have any medical need for it.

Infants are born with the foreskin fused to the glans to keep bacteria out. It doesn't begin to detach until much later. It's inappropriate to diagnose this natural fusion as phimosis, as so often happens in the US, where doctors are shockingly ignorant about intact penis anatomy. But it was not diagnosed in this child at any rate.

[elleng]

24. AWFUL! STUPID!

'In a parenting agreement filed in court, the two agreed to the boy's circumcision. The mother later changed her mind.'

Poor kid!

[Geronimoe]

26. Leave the child alone

If the child wants to be circumcised when he becomes an adult, then he can decide on his own to do it.

A judge should have no say on an unnecessary medical treatment.

[McCamy Taylor]

28. The father is sick. This is a four year old child. If you don't do it in infancy

you should let the person decide when he reaches 18. This kid is going to hate his father forever. And he will probably sue whichever surgeon does the job the very moment he reaches age 18.

[JMolina]

33. Circumcision at 18 or older is a terrible idea

Erections can easily break the suture. The best age is at birth. The worst is 18+ or even once the kid hits puberty.

[uppityperson]

34. I've taken care of young adults who were circumcised for medical health reason and

they had no problems with erections. Also they didn't have sutures, the wound was just cauterized.

[JMolina]

35. Were these adults circumcised because they had phimosis?

That is, the same thing the 4 year old had? If so, isn't it a fact that circumcision helps get rid of this phimosis thing?

[uppityperson]

36. Here is some information about it. Of course removing the foreskin will fix it BUT is rarely needed

Often circumcision is not needed. It depends on the severity and if there are other problems. Being only 4, there is still a good chance it will resolve on its own, unless of course it is causing problems now.


https://urology.ucsf.edu/patient-care/children/phimosis

Physiologic phimosis: Children are born with tight foreskin at birth and separation occurs naturally over time. Phimosis is normal for the uncircumcised infant/child and usually resolves around 5-7 years of age, however the child may be older.

(clip)

Circumcision:

Male circumcision refers to the surgical removal of the foreskin. Circumcision is often not required for treatment of phimosis. In some rare cases your pediatric urologist may recommend circumcision due to failure of steroid ointment, pathologic phimosis, paraphimosis (foreskin stuck in the retracted position behind the head of the penis), recurrent urinary tract infections, or severe/recurrent balanoposthitis.

[JMolina]

37. What did the father's urologist recommend?

I see that in rare cases urologists may recommend circumcision.

Is this boy's case one of those rare cases?

[Nine]

39. No.

He testified it was medically unnecessary.

[JMolina]

40. So why wait until he's 18 if it's unnecessary anyway?

?

[Nine]

41. No one is saying it *should* be done at 18...

...only that it is better to let him choose it (or not choose it) himself when he is old enough to give informed consent.

[uppityperson]

42. That way he can make his own decision whether or not to do body modification on himself

Since it isn't medically necessary, according to his doctor, it is just a cosmetic modification. Once he turns 18 he can decide whether or not he wants to get circumcised, tattooed, or other permanent body modifications done.

[JMolina]

43. On the case of newborns, should the parents wait until 18?

Note that your concern is that "body modification" is bad itself, as opposed to those who are simply worried about some risk to the 4 year old. Is your position that all children should be allowed to wait to 18?

[uppityperson]

45. Please do not try to put words into my mouth. Thank you. eom

[JMolina]

47. Answer? Nt

[uppityperson]

50. pitbulls at Olive Garden need not be circumcised or ride in shopping carts with potato chips

Welcome to du's weird and continuing meme wars.