Waco police: Some bikers may have been shot by officers

[Jesus Malverde]

Source: USA Today

A phalanx of law enforcement officers were combing a bloody, bullet-riddled crime scene Monday, trying to sort out who killed whom a day after a melee involving rival biker gangs left nine people dead.

Some of the dead and wounded may have been shot by officers responding to the bedlam at the Twin Peaks restaurant franchise, Waco police spokesman Sgt. W. Patrick Swanton said.

"They started shooting at our officers and our officers returned fire," Swanton said. Most of the dead and wounded suffered from gunshot and stab wounds, he added.

"It is a pretty gruesome scene," Swanton said.

How many bikers may have died from police gunfire is not yet known. Citing a law enforcement source, CNN reported that four of the dead bikers were shot by police.


Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/05/18/waco-shootout-police-involvement/27530257/

---

170 charged with capital murder. I'm not sure why many are taking the police narrative at face value. If we have learned anything over the last few months it's the police who kill, and lie about it. They admit to killing four, I won't be surprised if it is many more.

Close to 100 weapons were recovered from the scene, including brass knuckles, knives and clubs.

No guns?

[Renew Deal]

1. I don't get your point

Are you saying that the cops fired the first shot (not that it matters)?

[Jesus Malverde]

3. What we know so far is almost half the dead were killed by cops.

and no firearms have been recovered from the bikers. Per the USA today report. I think we should be skeptical of a texas cops narrative until the facts come out. They have proven time and time again that they lie after a shooting. Interesting 170 arrested, has a single biker witness described what happened or are they all in jail on a million dollar bail facing capital murder charges?

[George II]

5. All that went on yesterday afternoon and you're looking for full details in 24 hours? C'mon!!!

[Jesus Malverde]

7. 170 arrested and charged with capital murder

That might be premature.

[George II]

8. Noooo, they're NOT charged with "capital murder", they're charged with "organized crime....

....during which capital murder was committed".

Why don't you read all the reports available FIRST instead of looking for a chance to blame the police? Speaking of "premature".

[Jesus Malverde]

11. From the article

Swanton said 170 people had been charged with engaging in organized crime resulting in death — a capital offense that could bring the death penalty in Texas.

[George II]

14. That is NOT "capital murder", it's precisely what I said it was.

[Jesus Malverde]

18. Its an offense for which they can be put to death in texas.

What part of that is confusing.

[George II]

22. None of it, at least to me. Seems like you're confused. If you read the articles about this....

...and listened to the police statements, you'd know that NO murder charges have been filed yet, capital or otherwise.

Where did you read that they were charged with "capital murder"?

[christx30]

45. It could be capital murder.

Mike and joe are robbing a gas station at gunpoint. Joe is shot by the clerk. Mike is charged with Joe's death because the death was a direct result of the attempted robbery in which he participated.
Anyone there who commited any kind of crime can be charged like that.

[ManiacJoe]

51. That is "felony murder" not "capital murder".

[George II]

58. It could be, for some, but it isn't yet. Your example is correct, but we're talking...

....about 170 people involved in the incident Sunday and they're still trying to sort things out.

My comment was directed to the person who claimed that all of those people were being held on "capital murder" charges, which simply isn't true. He's also trying to place some blame for the incident on the police, which also is not true.

[marble falls]

57. This is Texas. They may not be charged with Capital Murder but they were charged with....

another capital crime. No doubt there will be a refinement of charges as the investigation weaves on.

Sorry, but the fact that no biker firearms have been gathered IS worrisome here in the US.

[George II]

59. Firearms WERE found. The claim that they weren't was based on a poorly thrown together...

irresponsible article published before all the bodies were even removed and examined. We don't even know yet how all nine people were killed - its possible some were beaten to death or stabbed to death.

NO one knows exactly what happened, how it came about, who did what, etc.

This was basically a war with hundreds of people involved inside and outside a restaurant.

[Renew Deal]

27. In this video a witness says she saw Bandido members shooting

[George II]

2. Two hundred bikers gathered, most with weapons, and you're trying to pin this on the police?

[Jesus Malverde]

4. The report so far is that no firearms have been recovered.

and at least four were killed by police.

[George II]

13. What "report"? Newspaper rumor?

[Jesus Malverde]

15. The linked article.

Seems like an important issue. I would like a link to the number of guns recovered by police, if you have one.

[George II]

25. Also in the linked article is the fact that there was no report by the Waco police.....

....that four were shot by the police.

You can't selectively pick and choose your "facts" to confirm something you WANT to be true, even if it isn't.

[okasha]

47. No, it's not.

That report lists items included among the recovered weapons. It does not state that no other weapons were recovered.

If gang members were "firing" at each other and police, it's pretty likely they were using guns, not pea-shooters.

[ManiacJoe]

52. Of course, no guns have been recovered.

Like the bikers are going to let the cops find illegal guns on their buddies.

[Codeine]

71. So now the reports are indicating that an astonishing number of firearms were found;

nearly 120 handguns, in fact.

[AuntPatsy]

23. It's Texas Practicaly everyone carries what some might claim are weapons...they are

On bikes most of the time traveling from county to county, perfectly LEGAL to carry

[okasha]

49. No, "practically everybody" doesn't.

That is a bigoted stereotype.

[treestar]

54. It's amazing how far some people will take a thing.

I've already seen comments to the effect it's the police's fault.

[cmkramer]

68. FWIW

I've seen that sentiment on conservative sites too.

[heaven05]

6. firefights

weapons being discharged, rounds from all these weapons firing, flying everywhere, goddamn right the police shot some. The shouting, the injured screaming and dying, the evil sound of a round narrowly missing your head flying by your ear. Can never forget that sound myself. That had to be bedlam. Plenty of weapons(guns) were found. Disconcerting situation to say the least. A lot of people here have no idea of the carnage and gore involved in a large firefight such as this. If this is some big setup then so be it, but it doesn't seem so. You can't tell me that these gang members were not armed. The first reports from witnesses said everyone was firing. I believe those first before the spin going on here and in the MSM. But hell, WTF do I know.

[Jesus Malverde]

9. "Plenty of weapons(guns) were found."

Do you have a source for that?

[George II]

12. Do YOU have a source for all the BS you've been flinging?

Did you miss THIS in the article? It was halfway down, most likely you stopped reading before then:

How many bikers may have died from police gunfire is not yet known. Citing a law enforcement source, CNN reported that four of the dead bikers were shot by police.

But at a news briefing Monday evening, Swanton said that information "has not been verified by us, it has not been verified by autopsies or medical results as well."

"The autopsies have not been completed and that information may very likely be incorrect," Swanton said. "It is not coming from me or the Waco Police Department."

[heaven05]

16. I have no idea

what you're saying...I'm just going on the first reports that I read from witnesses yesterday. They were ducking rounds coming from the gang members and police. You want a source to debunk those witnesses, go find it yourself. USA today, means nothing to me. It is way too early to say these gang members were not armed. You have google, duck duck go, you tube and many more sources for those witnesses. Do your own work, don't just speculate.

[Jesus Malverde]

19. Im not speculating

Im cherry picking from the USA today article which says hundreds of weapons were recovered but doesn't mention firearms.

[heaven05]

21. you need a source?

go further down the thread, there is a source cited. Should get you rolling.....

[George II]

26. At least you FINALLY admitted you're "cherry picking"!

[7962]

39. Oh for Gods sake, a firearm IS a weapon!!!

[NuclearDem]

10. OFFS.

These are Bandidos and Cossacks, not unarmed black men walking down the street.

[sarisataka]

17. Here you go, local ABC affiliate

Police recovered chains, knives, bats, clubs, and firearms from the scene. There could have possibly been over 100 weapons. As of Monday morning, 192 people were arrested and booked into the McLennan County Jail on organized crime charges.

http://www.kxxv.com/story/29085892/police-respond-to-shooting-between-biker-gangs-at-restaurant

[Jesus Malverde]

20. Thanks!

[AuntPatsy]

24. Again, LEGAL unless police decide in this instance it's not? And seriously don't believe

Everything you read, even what I write...

[sarisataka]

28. At this point

there is no way to determine from news reports if the weapons were legally carried or not.

It would be a case by case basis. If in possession of a felon- illegal. If in the saddlebags of a non-felon- likely legal. On the person of a non-felon- it depends; state and local law would apply.

[AuntPatsy]

31. Very true...

[7962]

40. I doubt many members of a biker gang are toting legal weapons. nt

[sarisataka]

41. It is not beyond belief

that there would be some 'mules' with clean records who happen to be 'transporting' 2,3,4 or more firearms while in the company of others who are not allowed to possess firearms.

[MrModerate]

44. If you blow away another biker with your legally carried weapon . . .

Does that have any effect on your legal right to carry it?

I'd think not: we are talking Texas, after all.

[Renew Deal]

30. In this video a witness says she saw Bandido members shooting

[AuntPatsy]

34. I would bet my life for whatever reason, this was a set up, with inside help....

And contrary to what the usual will assume this is not from being bogged underneath a tin foil umbrella..

[Renew Deal]

35. Is that woman in on it?

[NuclearDem]

36. They all are.

Just trying to frame the poor outlaw MCs that otherwise wouldn't hurt a fly.

[AuntPatsy]

38. Never said all these people were perfect some are some aren't, I judge on individuality....

[okasha]

48. The Bandidos have a fifty year history

of violent crime. Ain't no virgins in that whorehouse.

[AuntPatsy]

37. She's the audience only

[George II]

60. "Inside"? Who are the "insiders"? Police?

[brewens]

29. I'd hate to find out that this was a brawl that was being taken outside as it should,

then escalated by cops opening fire. I would assume that bikers like that, knowing their may be trouble, would be packing guns, but I'd be surprised if they came storming out and opened up on the cops.

[PSPS]

43. I heard the owner of the bar say that the shooting began in the club before they went outside.

But, who cares? Apparently, this is all some kind of "black ops" orchestrated by "The Illuminati" or something.

[wordpix]

62. female witness said the same - shooting by Bandidos began in bar

[840high]

32. Unrec. - jumping to conclisions with no proof.

[MicaelS]

33. Why didn't you try the local newspaper instead of USA Today?

I'd say on the scene reporting is better than some national daily.

http://www.wacotrib.com/

[obnoxiousdrunk]

42. That would spoil

the story line.

[1000words]

46. Bookmarking

Some are very sure they know exactly what happened. Let's see how this develops ...

[Skittles]

50. are you seriously trying to blame the police?

did you miss the part where LEO tried to work with the restaurant reps because they saw the potential for violence brewing?

[Jesus Malverde]

53. Whats been reported...

Waco police said Monday that they had 18 uniformed SWAT officers and four state agents with marked cars stationed outside the Twin Peaks restaurant before the shooting erupted.

That’s higher than the original count of 10 officers that police had provided after the shooting.

All those officers — which included a Waco rookie and an assistant chief — were involved in the gunfight as dozens of armed biker gang members streamed out of the Twin Peaks restaurant shortly after noon Sunday, shooting, stabbing and assaulting each other, police said.

“Those officers’ reactions to a very hostile, deadly situation saved citizens’ lives,” police spokesman Sgt. W. Patrick Swanton said at a news conference this morning.

Some off-duty officers(Unknown how many - Now more that 22 cops) who were shopping in the bustling outdoor Central Texas Marketplace rushed to the scene. Despite lacking the proper tactical gear, they put themselves in “harm’s way” without hesitation, Swanton said.

http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2015/05/in-waco-shooting-192-accused-biker-gang-members-arrested.html/

Lets see who killed who when the coroner reports come out.

[George II]

61. "Lets see who killed who when the coroner reports come out."

Shouldn't you have said that before jumping to conclusion yourself?

[Jesus Malverde]

63. Your obsessed with making a point.

I sugest a break from this thread. It was pretty clear from the beginning.

[George II]

65. Me? Are you watching the press conference going on right now?

The sargeant just pointed out that the autopsies haven't even been performed yet. He said that some may have been killed by the police, but no one knows for sure yet, and that won't be known until after the autopsies are performed.

My obsession? For the truth - yes.

[Jesus Malverde]

66. Wrong

You came into this thread insisting the initial reports were gospel.

lulz





Lets chat when the coroner reports come out.

JM

[George II]

67. Nooo.....

I came into this thread and said this:

(first post)

"All that went on yesterday afternoon and you're looking for full details in 24 hours? C'mon!!!"

(second post)

"Noooo, they're NOT charged with "capital murder", they're charged with "organized crime........during which capital murder was committed".

Why don't you read all the reports available FIRST instead of looking for a chance to blame the police? Speaking of "premature".

Obviously I was on the side of waiting to find all the detail of what happens instead of immediately trying to place blame.

[Skittles]

69. you are absolutely correct, George

[mwrguy]

55. The cops shot some white thugs for a change

What are we complaining about again?

[Codeine]

56. When did this place go full Alex Jones?

Seriously, the acrobatics involved with bending over backwards enough to exonerate a bunch of bikers is some death-defying work, tinfoilers.

[Jesus Malverde]

64. .

JM

[Skittles]

70. stereotyping is wrong unless the subject is LEO

then all hell breaks loose around here

[Taitertots]

72. This should be really easy. Just ask the cops how many people they shot.

Did the police even interview the officers involved?

[Corey_Baker08]

73. Wow You're Seriously Trying To Blame The Cops?