ISIL said to be in full control of Syria's Palmyra
Source: Aljazeera
Fighters from the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) have taken full control of Syria's ancient town of Palmyra, according to activists and a monitoring group.
The Syrian army has collapsed and ISIL has taken over the city of Palmyra, the UK-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights reported.
The monitor reported earlier on Wednesday that ISIL had advanced into the ancient city of Palmyra.
Deadly clashes had raged overnight between the Syrian government and ISIL, with troops firing rockets from outside the city in an attempt to block ISIL's offensive.
Read more: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/05/isil-takes-full-control-syria-palmyra-reports-150520184842272.html
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Bosonic
(3,746 posts)Beirut (AFP) - Jihadists from the Islamic State group were in almost full control of Syria's historic city of Palmyra on Wednesday night after the withdrawal of government forces, a monitor said.
"IS controls almost all of Palmyra" following the withdrawal of government troops from all sectors except for a prison in the east and military intelligence headquarters in the west, said Rami Abdel Rahman of the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights.
IS extremists sparked international outrage earlier this year in Iraq when they blew up the ancient Assyrian city of Nimrud and smashed artefacts in the Mosul museum.
http://news.yahoo.com/almost-full-control-syrias-palmyra-monitor-185306811.html;_ylt=AwrC1TEO2VxVoQ0AmyTQtDMD;_ylu=X3oDMTByOHZyb21tBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--
betterdemsonly
(1,967 posts)brooklynite
(96,882 posts)Can't say I recall anyone here saying "maybe the attempt to overthrow Mubarak was stupid" when the Arab Spring was breaking out.
betterdemsonly
(1,967 posts)the jihadis that wanted to overthrow Assad and Qadafi, who were Al Qaeda and who wanted a Caliphate. They would have gotten nowhere had we not armed the socalled opposition. People warned at the time that they were Al Qaeda, but Obama, Clinton and the state department neocons like Nuland, Powers and Rice wouldn't friggen listen.
The PNAC stupids provoked all this. Obama responded because he can never let a bad influence in Washington die. He helped them revive their plans just like he helped the investment banks continue their destruction of our economy..
The islamic democratic movement that took over Egypt in no way resembled the Wahabbi extremists, that we have been arming as Syrian opposition. You didn't see any attacks on the Egyptian pyramids, or threats to do so. But go ahead double down on stupid and give the opposition, aka isis more weapons, just quit whining about them winning and destroying ancient cultural artifacts, and establishing a taliban regime, since it is what you want.
aceofblades
(73 posts)In Syria(and to an extent libya) the army was far less unified & either splintered or were turned against it's people in a brutal manner. This was before turkey turned against Assad (they were allies before if we remember).
ISIS & other rebel groups didn't magically appear out of nowhere. In syria, much like iraq, they took advantage of conditions on the ground to give a 'moral' call to attract fighters. But Assad, in part, due to his brutal oppression of protests(which made Ferguson's police dept. tactics a picnic in comparison imo) helped to give moral ammunition to the rebel factions. Those tactics (combined with good old fashioned Alawaite(shia offshoot) vs Sunni majority sectarianism gave moral ammunition to gulf-states who then provided actually ammunition.
That's not ,in itself,to justify the proxy war that has occurred since, but the genesis of it , puts things into perspective.
joshcryer
(62,536 posts)ISIS was an Iraq/Syria border movement which grew after the Arab Spring compelled people to rise up in Syria and cause divergent groups (some of which the US trained or armed, but which are largely irrelevant to the conflict).
Most of the top ISIS leaders were former prisoners under Saddam which the US let free to run amok.
Bush created ISIS. To blame Obama is simply ignoring the reality and yet again trying to bash a Democrat trying to do something good over a Republican who intentionally did something bad (there were no WMDs, and Bush knew that, and he's a war criminal).
betterdemsonly
(1,967 posts)Obama didn't completely reverse Bush's policy. He just pursued PNAC goals through funding insurgents rather than committing troupes. It didn't matter whether the insurgents were far worse than the regime the PNAC wanted gone. It is like you are saying that because Johnson escalated Viet Nam, Nixon bears no responsibility for keeping it going 7 years after promising to end the war. It is bipartisan stupidity like Wallstreet bailouts. Everything DC polls have a consensus on is a bad idea.
BTW, Bush didn't do it alone. Many mainstream dems gave him a blank check by voting for the IWR, including Hillary. Why oh why did Obama give her a foreign policy job when she is sucks so much at it, and that was the reason we voted for Obama over Hillary Clinton?
joshcryer
(62,536 posts)Bush created ISIS.
joshcryer
(62,536 posts)The Arab Spring unfortunately allowed them to gain a foothold.
progree
(12,972 posts)
progree
(12,972 posts)Here's one of eight photos at the above link:
Bosonic
(3,746 posts)BEIRUT, May 21 (Reuters) - Islamic State controls more than half of Syria's territory after its westwards advance into the central city of Palmyra, a group monitoring the war said on Thursday.
The militant group, which already controlled wide tracts of land in Syria's north and east, captured the ancient city late on Wednesday, the first time it has seized a large population centre directly from Syrian pro-government forces.
The areas it holds are mostly sparsely inhabited. Syria's main cities, including the capital Damascus, are located on its western flank along the border with Lebanon and the coastline and have been the priority for the Syrian military.
https://en-maktoob.news.yahoo.com/islamic-state-controls-more-50-percent-syrian-territory-063727682.html
jamzrockz
(1,333 posts)has put sanction on Syrian govt fighting ISIS and just recently they just approved more sanction on Hezbollah. I hate to bring up my tin foil hat, but a part of me thinks the US is taking advantage of ISIS to defeat Assad. And I know we conduct air strikes on them which does absolutely nothing to slow them down. Not sanctioning the people with boots on the ground does way more damage to ISIS that the air strikes and its cheaper for the American people too.
But the story is that Obama doesn't want to interfere. I think the real lesson people in Washington got from the Iraq war is do no use US soldiers to fight our wars. Use proxies and evil allies in the region to get the dirty work done. It is sad what we are doing to the people of Syria and this time, we can't just blame Bush for everything
betterdemsonly
(1,967 posts)The answer is that we prioritize Saudi and Israeli foreign policy goals over our own even though both regimes are far nuttier and kill more innocents that Assad ever did.
They both have billionaire lobbies that Obama can never say no too.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)SNHR says 88% of the 133,586 people killed by pro-Assad forces in Syria were civilians, 23% of victims were women and children.
http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/100000-civilians-killed-assad-forces-2011-report-590203858#sthash.yBQh6a8F.dpuf
betterdemsonly
(1,967 posts)Hardly any of those deaths would have happened if we hadn't armed the socalled syrian opposition aka isis.
America has killed how much collateral damage in our wars in Iraq, not to mention bombings and drone strike. Why should I give any credibilty to this Syrian human rights org when they might be isis propagandists. You act as if expatriate organizatiosn have never lied us into stupid wars. Remember all those Iraqis expatriates that assured us overthowing Saddam was just a wonderful idea? Remember the babies removed from incubator claims during Iraq War 1?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Just that they killed a lot of them. Perhaps the number of civilians killed is lower than what is listed in that link, but to say that the Israeli regime "kills more innocents that Assad ever did" is just preposterous. The numbers are not even in the same ballpark, by anyone's count.
betterdemsonly
(1,967 posts)and like this war there started by itself, and so all deaths are laid at Assad's feet. How many did Israelis kill in Lebanon, the West Bank and Gaza. How many more are the planning to kill for the hell of it.
The reporter made little attempt to check the officers’ claims about Hezbollah, but that really wasn’t the point. Her story was an apparent trial balloon to test international reaction should Israel undertake an all-out military campaign against the local population, as it did in Lebanon in 1978, 1982 and 1996, and in Gaza in 2008-09 and 2014. Aside from critical notice by a few watchdog bloggers, there has been almost no reaction. The collective silence may lead Tel Aviv to believe the world is willing to give Israel the green light for mass killing of civilians.
A week before the Times story ran, Israel’s defense minister was even blunter. Speaking at a conference in Jerusalem, Moshe Yaalon said Israel would not shrink from targeting civilian neighborhoods in the event of a future conflict in Lebanon or Gaza: “We are going to hurt Lebanese civilians to include kids of the family . . . We did it in [the] Gaza Strip, we are going to do it in any round of hostilities in the future.”
Chilling as those words were, they simply expressed longstanding Israeli military practice and doctrine. During Israel’s most recent invasion of Lebanon in 2006, for example, the Israeli Defense Forces killed hundreds of Lebanese civilians and several unarmed United Nations observers. Reports by Human Right Watch documented serious war crimes by Hezbollah, which engaged in indiscriminate rocket fire against Israel, but also by the IDF for systematically failing to distinguish between combatants and civili
https://consortiumnews.com/2015/05/20/israels-plan-to-kill-lebanese-civilians/
Yes, they are planning and unprovoked war with Lebanon as Isis establishes a crazy Wahhabi regime in Syria and Iraq.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)However, the entire premise of your own argument is predicated on a post hoc ergo prompter hoc fallacy, dramatically ignoring the relevant and fundamental pieces set in place during the Sikes-Picot Accord and the critical decisions made during the first half of the twentieth century by the colonial European powers.
It's shallow and simplistic thinking to find one cause, one villain, one agenda, one policy, one evil empire as responsible en toto.
Try: Rise and Fall of the Great Powers (Paul Kennedy) for relevant and additional reasons, policies, agendas, people and political strategies. Its relevant chapters are a very well researched and documented primer.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)How many civilians do you think have been killed by Israel and how many by Syria?
Please provide any source of your choosing with that information.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)They Syrian Observatory for Human Rights says about 250,000 dead overall, about 100,000 regime soldiers, about 100,000 rebels of various stripes, and about 50,000 civilians.
The SNHR also appears to lowball any casualties caused by rebels.
And its numbers are suspiciously precise, given that it says it can't accurately count in government-controlled areas.
Who are these guys?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Here's who they say they are:
http://sn4hr.org/about-us/
If you have other info on this organization, please do share.