Boy Scouts’ President Calls for End to Ban on Gay Leaders

[brooklynite]

Source: The New York Times

The president of the Boy Scouts of America on Thursday called for an end to the group’s blanket ban on gay adult leaders, warning Scout executives that “we must deal with the world as it is, not as we might wish it to be,” and that “any other alternative will be the end of us as a national movement.”

At the same time, religious organizations that sponsor a majority of local Scout troops, including the Mormons and Roman Catholics, should remain free to set their own policies for leaders, said the president, Robert M. Gates, the former director of the C.I.A. and the former secretary of defense.

Mr. Gates called for the changes at an annual national meeting of the group, in Atlanta. He said that he was not yet making a formal proposal but that the Scouts’ governing body should take up the issue formally at a future meeting.

The treatment of gay men and boys has been a source of wrenching debate over the last decade. Conservative religious groups that sponsor many Scout troops, including the Mormon Church and the Roman Catholic Church, have opposed the participation of openly gay members while local leaders in more liberal areas have called for an end to the ban.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/22/us/boy-scouts-president-calls-for-end-to-ban-on-gay-leaders.html

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But we can still kick out the atheists?

[aikoaiko]

1. It was inevitable.

Outstanding scouts who are gay grow up to be outstanding scout leaders who are gay.

[F4lconF16]

2. Yup.

Ugh. That phrasing:

we must deal with the world as it is, not as we might wish it to be

Yes, thanks for reminding us all you don't want us.

Screw the scouts. I'm tired of their bigotry. Easily the most homophobic, racist, and sexist group I've ever been a part of. And, of course, very anti-atheist.

Sucks, thinking about how many people are harmed by these policies every year.

[Renew Deal]

3. Anyone notice who the head of the Boy Scouts is?

I didn't know Gates landed there. He was the Defense Sec. when DADT was repealed.

Obama said in his 2010 State of the Union Address: "This year, I will work with Congress and our military to finally repeal the law that denies gay Americans the right to serve the country they love because of who they are."[128] This statement was quickly followed up by Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Joint Chiefs Chairman Michael Mullen voicing their support for a repeal of DADT.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_ask,_don't_tell

[shenmue]

4. Wow

[Hekate]

16. I noticed, and gave a silent cheer.

[Thinkingabout]

5. I predict in the next few years this will be a non issue and if SC rules in favor

Of same sex marriages it will be shorter. I am sure there will be some holdouts but it will be sticks in the mud.

[Maven]

6. Glad for the outcome if this happens, but Gates' words belie his bigotry

“we must deal with the world as it is, not as we might wish it to be,” and that “any other alternative will be the end of us as a national movement.”

Translation: we all wish these queers would just go away, but we have to face the fact that despite our efforts they actually have some political clout now, so to prevent more doors closing on us and the courts intervening let's change our policy, but you religious members can still exercise your freedom (wink wink)

Barf.

[Stargazer09]

9. I'm not sure that he is really a bigot

He was speaking for a bigoted organization that he leads. The majority of the members of that organization are bigots.

He seems to be trying to change it from the inside, so naturally, he has to include himself in his statements.

If he had used the words "you" and "your organization," he would have made himself seem like an outsider accusing them of bigotry, and he would have become a target.

His only chance of dragging the Boy Scouts into the 21st century is to be seen as their friend. I want him to be successful, because I think it's a great program once the religious nuttery is removed. (My son's troop puts absolutely no emphasis on religion; any requirements for religious activity can be signed off by the parents.)

The Girl Scouts are also (indirectly) putting pressure on the Boy Scouts, too. They now have internal and external pressure on them to change, and I hope they will finally become more accepting.

[hughee99]

10. That's how I read it too. n/t

[FSogol]

12. The vast majority of BSA members are not bigoted. The change to allow

gay scouts was made following polling leaders and parents registered with units across the country. The biggest no vote came from Mormon troops. The pressure to change is coming from inside, but also from corporations that help fund scouting (Merck, UPS, Intel, Levi-Strauss) not from the Girls Scouts of America.

[Stargazer09]

13. I haven't seen the polling results

It was well-publicized that the majority of the national leadership was resistant to the changes they were making, and they did state that losing corporate sponsorship was a driving force behind those changes.

The national leadership did not just magically appear in those positions of power. They were put there by the state and local councils. If the local councils and parents were so open to allowing gay youth, how did the bigots rise to, and retain, power?

As I said, the Girl Scouts are indirectly applying pressure by already being open and accepting. No big public arguments from them. Just, "Here is our policy. Deal with it."

[Beartracks]

14. That was also my understanding.

Taking it in context, he's speaking FOR the organization he leads, not about his own personal beliefs whatever they may be.

For me, I agree scouting is a really good program. My scouting experience was nothing but positive -- no gay-bashing, no overt religiosity -- and the troop was sponsored by a local church. The only religious things I recall from our activities was the bit in the oath about doing one's duty "to God and my country" and I think we said grace before meals and a prayer before meetings or events -- much the same as many civic organizations would do. Other than that, it was camping and games and outdoor learning, practicing kindness, fairness, citizenship, community involvement, etc. -- just scouting stuff.

==========================

[Liberalagogo]

7. "...as we wish it might be...""

Aw.....it's so sad that Hitler's regime is dead, isn't it?

Stuff your words, Gates.

[Gore1FL]

8. They already let atheists in by allowing people to define God however they want

The rule is a self-defeating loophole.

“The idea that God is an oversized white male with a flowing beard, who sits in the sky and tallies the fall of every sparrow is ludicrous. But if by 'God,' one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying... it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity.”

--Carl Sagan.

That's how I "reverented*" for 7 years.

Most Scout Leaders I knew really didn't understand what "reverent" really meant. It always got over-simplified into "going to church."

[FSogol]

11. That's true. Saying "I'm an atheist" is frowned upon, but saying, "I think religion is a private,

personal matter and I'm not sure I have all the answers" is fine.

Glad BSA is improving.

[iandhr]

15. Little by little

step by step progress is made.