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[alp227]

This message was self-deleted by its author (alp227) on Mon Apr 30, 2012, 09:02 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[1StrongBlackMan]

1. As he should be ... n/t

[alp227]

5. Search Chen's name on free republic,

they are already fearing that Obama will extradite Chen for Chinese campaign cash like Clinton allegedly took Chinese donations in '96.

[grantcart]

2. There is a time to be quiet, and this is one of them.

Complicated struggle within the CPC on whether it becomes a modern country with dissent or returns to the days of the Cultural Revolution.

[Psephos]

10. Couldn't disagree more.

The corollary to your statement is that there is a time to speak in defense of universal human rights, and this is one of them.

Especially if one holds a Nobel Peace Prize.

Subverting core principles to economic and political considerations is not the hallmark of a liberal.

[grantcart]

11. Having lived in Asia for 20 years and working for UN organization on human rights for half of that

time I can assure you that you couldn't be more wrong.

If we had an unblemished human rights record then the Chinese might not be so preturbed but the fact that we have millions of citizens that do not have access to medical care and millions more that are hungry the Chinese militant communist wing that is mostly in the Northern Part of the country would use such lectures as evidence of blatant interference in the internal affairs of the country and proof of the agenda of the US of achieving geographic hegemony around China.

Giving sanctuary to Chen Guangcheng in the embassy is the boldest human rights statement by a foreign power in modern history. A perfunctory lecture would do nothing but hand the militant wing more ammunition. The world does not want another Cultural Revolution.

The Obama administration's record of quiet diplomacy has achieved some astonishing results. Not the least of these is convincing the Burmese Junta to allow Nobel Peace Prize recipient Aung San Suu Kyi out of house arrest to stand in the election and win them.

Sometimes "speaking" for human rights is actually counterproductive to achieving advancements in human rights. A strong throated lecture might make you feel better but it would do nothing for the human rights activitists whose lives are actually at stake.

[Psephos]

12. Realpolitik is the problem, not the solution.

I didn't like it when Kissinger was selling it, either.

I appreciate your perspective, but the idea that we should lecture the Chinese is yours, not mine. To lecture is to condescend. To state one's principles in clear language, on behalf of the weak or threatened, however, is to transcend.

Standing up for one's principles requires only a simple, unequivocal statement. I respect a man or woman who makes principled stands when it's not expedient to do so, and consider it a sign of strength and honor.

We should expect no less of our leaders. One can argue we should expect considerably more.

[grantcart]

13. The proof is in getting real results.

No one expected Burma to emerge from the stranglehold of decades of dictatorship.

It did because of private multilateral discussions between the US, Europe and ASEAN.

"lecturing China" isn't my perception it is China's

What you suggest is that we make high principled statements that compare our theoretical principles with their actual realities.

That's what Kissinger and the Soviets did to each other for years. We would compare our theory with their reality and they would compare their theory with our reality.

President Obama and Secretary of State Clinton are not using anything approaching Realpolitik. Realpolitik is based on a regime centric methodology that is based on the assumption that the same elites will always be in power.

They are using patient multilateralism working on establishing broad areas of commonality with interests of reform in the country (see Egypt, Libya, Burma for example) by maintaining pressure to change and providing positive rewards when mutually agreed objectives have been achieved.

You could not make a more inappropriate comparison between what this administration is doing and what Kissinger has done and that difference has meant that millions of people have moved much much closer to freedom as a result.

BTW providing sanctuary to a high profile Chinese dissident is louder than 30 lectures or 'statements'. If you think that giving dissidents sanctuary was something akin to what Kissinger's Realpolitik then I have to assume that you were studying diplomacy by watching Tom and Jerry cartoons.

[Left Coast2020]

3. Wen Jiabao says he wants to bring cultural change, but.....

.... I think he's talking out of both sides of his mouth--that being the continued crackdown on dissent.

[randr]

4. Sending Secretary Clinton speaks volumes

[IamK]

6. she was going anyway.. bad timing for her..

[got root]

8. don't turn it up...

nothing but static coming in on most frequencies.

[got root]

7. Don't want to piss off the folks who make all our stuff now...

do they?

[Fearless]

9. When isn't he silent on human rights issues?

North Carolina is still waiting Mr. President.