Donald Rumsfeld: George W. Bush was wrong about Iraq

[Botany]

Source: MSNBC

President George W. Bush was wrong to try to build democracy in Iraq, former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said in a recent interview, marking a striking admission from a key player behind the 2003 U.S. invasion.

In an interview with British newspaper The Times, Rumsfeld said that efforts to oust Saddam Hussein and replace his tyrannical regime with democracy were unworkable, and that he had concerns about the plan from the beginning.


“I’m not one who thinks that our particular template of democracy is appropriate for other countries at every moment of their histories,” Rumsfeld told The Times. “The idea that we could fashion a democracy in Iraq seemed to me unrealistic. I was concerned about it when I first heard those words.”

Rumsfeld, who served under Bush from 2001 to 2006, has previously defended the administration’s actions in the run-up to the war, which dragged on for years before formally ending in 2011.

Read more: http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/donald-rumsfeld-george-w-bush-was-wrong-about-iraq

---

* Feb. 7, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, to U.S. troops in Aviano, Italy: "It is unknowable how long that conflict will last. It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months."

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/educate/war28-article.htm

[davidpdx]

1. Don't worry Rummy, your spot in hell is secure

You'll be in good company with Donald Trump, George H.W. Bush, George W. Bush and Anthony Scalia going with you. And so many of your best buddies are already there: Adolph, Ronny, Tricky Dicky, Saddam, Qaddafi, Osama, and many more.

[madokie]

7. Spot on

[joshdawg]

11. Well, don't believe there is a "hell", but where rumsfailed needs to be

is in solitary confinement in some place like, say, Gitmo. Give him plenty of company with bush, cheney, wolfowitz, rice, etc. ad nauseum.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

40. He has an open invitation to visit The Hague.

[raouldukelives]

45. So many went along to get along. God forgive them. nt

[AngryDem001]

49. When the troops requsted better body armor,

didn't this weasel say "Be thankful for what you have" or something to that effect?

[jmowreader]

54. It wasn't body armor, and the quote is the most famous Rummy quote there is

A Specialist Thomas Wilson of the Tennessee National Guard asked Rumsfeld, "why do we soldiers have to dig through local landfills for pieces of scrap metal and compromised ballistic glass to up-armor our vehicles? And why don't we have those resources readily available to us?" and were told, by their Secretary of Defense,

"It isn't a matter of money. It isn't a matter on the part of the army of desire. It's a matter of production and capability of doing it. As you know, ah, you go to war with the army you have---not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time.---You can have all the armor in the world on a tank and it can (still) be blown up..."

If Obama's administration is to have any meaning, he should round up all the architects of the Gulf War, try them for a million counts of murder, and execute them by firing squad.

[UpInArms]

64. + 100%

if there were any justice in this world, that would be a strong beginning

[OrwellwasRight]

70. I hough his most famous quote was

"There are known unknowns and unknown unknowns" or words to that effect.

Either way, he is a dick who didn't give a shit how many people he killed.

[Shiraz]

63. You forgot Satan himself,

Dick Cheney!

[davidpdx]

74. How the hell could I have forgotten him!

I'm sitting here writing the list and his name didn't come to mind. Wow, just wow!

[Roland99]

2. Good thing he spoke up about it & reminded Dick of his words in '91 about invading Iraq

oh wait....

[sofa king]

3. He's just testing the Presidential waters.

Since they've opened the pool to murderous psychopaths, everyone's trying to jump in.

[Betty Karlson]

21. murderous psychopaths - and their brothers

especially the ones who want psychopaths' advice.

[Historic NY]

4. But he went along .........

"There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know."

Mean while hundreds of thousands died because he didn't say no.

[wordpix]

24. good post and he should have known to say no & leave the *admin

if he didn't agree with such an "important" mission. But these a-holes who make hundred$ of thousand$/year can't conceive of living without a paycheck and WH power for a week or 2 until they get their next job.

Crazy old coot tries to rewrite history is the known known here.

[tblue37]

73. As a PNACer, he was an architect of the plot, not a "go along." In fact, he

was probably second only to Cheney in responsibility for planning and conducting the war--and for going into office from the start with the intention to find some excuse to invade Iraq to get started on the PNAC plan.

[jakeXT]

5. At least the war is over and we have a sovereign Iraqi state....

“We did not claim or annex Iraq’s territory, nor did we grab its resources for our own gain,” he said. “Instead, we ended our war and left Iraq to its people and a fully sovereign Iraqi state could make decisions about its own future.”

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/obama-warns-sanctions-russian-energy-article-1.1735221

[dreamnightwind]

12. They propped up U.S.and Saudi oil prices

by destroying the Iraqi oil infrastructure, and subsequently limiting Iraqi oil exports. Of course they also sold off extraction rights to the large petro companies for future Texsploitation.

He should be admitting they were wrong to invade, not that they were wrong to attempt to setup a democracy. Says a lot.

[jakeXT]

13. The democracy part was just there to sell it to the public /nt

[leveymg]

48. This one ^^^

[newthinking]

6. Rumsfeld turning on Bush. As if he was not one of the architects. Rich!

Or maybe he really is that dumb?

[dixiegrrrrl]

41. He's up to something. Awkwardly trying to remove his name from the slate of war criminals.

Notice he does not mention how he profited from the war on terror via TSA Rapiscan x-ray machines
and via his ties to drug companies
and from being paid handsomely to sit on boards of war mongering businesses.

[Kip Humphrey]

8. and then there are those pesky little known knowns.

what a lying, self-serving, piece of shit coward.

[bulloney]

10. I remember Rumsfeld leading a news conference telling the media stooges

that we know exactly where Saddam's WMDs are. He pointed on a map and said "Right here," pointing at Tikrit.

Donnie Rumdum must be having warmonger's remorse as he's realizing that his life is winding down.

[90-percent]

17. warmonger's remorse

now that phrase is a keeper. Thank you. I'm going to plagiarize it for years!

-90% Jimmy

[KingCharlemagne]

27. Do sociopaths experience remorse? - nt

[BeanMusical]

35. +1

Nope.

[damyank913]

9. Wait, what?!?...

Thousands of American lives (not to mention Iraqi lives) lost and ruined and all he says is "oops". What an arrogant piece of crap this man is. Notice how there isn't even an apology. Just "oops"...

[KingCharlemagne]

28. Support our Oops! - nt

[OrwellwasRight]

71. This ^^^

[damyank913]

75. Not sure what your'e getting at as a reply to my comment...

Would you consider silence about the abuses of the Bush administration an example of support for our troops?

[KingCharlemagne]

77. It was my rather lame attempt to play off the then-ubiquitous "Support

Our Troops" propaganda one encountered as we proceeded to destroy a nation and its people for a lie.

"Support our Troops" really meant "support the policies that are placing our troops in danger." The anti-war movement responded with "Support our Troops. Bring them back alive."

Sorry the pun didn't come through as neatly as I intended.

Bush, Cheney, RummyDummy and the rest of the Junta should all be in the docket for war crimes trials.

[damyank913]

79. I thought that you might have meant that...

...So I had to ask. No Worries. Happens to me all the time.

[DRoseDARs]

14. The gall and chutzpah of this man. nt

[6chars]

52. And the nerve. nt

[DhhD]

15. There were no plans to set up a government in Iraq, only to invade it. The Sunni government was

destroyed and criminalized by the Bush Administration. The Iraqi Bathe Party government officials, had no affiliation with Al Qua-da.

The Marshall Plan for Iraq was to allow the MIC to run the country, by replacing all destroyed infrastructure. This Bush Plan was set up do that Iraq would, pay for restructuring, by being forced to allow energy companies of the West, to carpetbag Iraqi oil. After Bush busted the Sunni government balance for power in the ME, he finally set up a Shiite controlled government knowingly creating future resistance (later to be known as ISIS).

Could It Be: Jeb Bush wants to return to Iraq and instead of setting up the Marshall Plan, Jeb would set up the Bush Plan using the Bush MIC and Bush Infrastructure Complex, making Iraq one big fuel facility for the West. This time hundreds of thousands of drafted soldiers would maintain the colony. (Many young people leave high school now and cannot afford to go to college.) And Iraq would be paying for the Protectorate with oil.

It would take a Republican Congress to activate the Draft and a Republican President to sett up the Bush Plans. America does not even need the oil of Iraq thanks to President Obama. Why should Americans step backward with another Bush?

[underpants]

29. I recall an article posted here on DU from a civil engineer

It was about calls and emails he and other engineers had about the Iraqi infrastructure. People in industries talk about these things.

Who has the contract for the cement sewer pipe?
Who has the contract for the telephone poles, copper wire, bridge steel, etc. ?

Between them no one had heard who was providing what. Then it hit them - oh my god they don't have any suppliers. There is no plan to rebuild. It was as if they (W&Co. ) didn't think the Shock n Awe was going to rip the country apart.


We do know that Tommy Franks had ZERO occupation plans. None. He considered himself just the leader of the invasion and he was headed out the door to write a book and cash in for the rest of his life.

[deutsey]

16. As Walter Sobchak said:

[BeanMusical]

36. Lol!

Good one.

[peace13]

18. Hey Rummy, we aren't all dead yet!

We remember you and your, "There are insurgents north, south, east and west of Baghdad!" Take your place in history. Your ill planned death squad is resulting in deaths right now, on our streets and across the globe. We will never forget!

[valerief]

19. He's a herpes sore on humanity. nt

[Hotler]

20. That man should be dancing from the end of a rope just like Saddam did .....n/t

[NV Whino]

22. Rewriting history

Just what republicans do best.

Warmongering piece of shit.

[Botany]

34. On Sept. 12, 2001 Rummy was pushing for a war in Iraq

"According to the notes, although Rumsfeld has already been given information indicating the 9/11 attacks were done by al-Qaeda (see 12:05 p.m. September 11, 2001) and he has been given no evidence so far indicating any Iraqi involvement, he is more interested in blaming the attacks on Iraq."

http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=complete_timeline_of_the_2003_invasion_of_iraq_60

Sometimes these bastards act like we don't have any memory or we don't know how to use the
google machine. Hell, Rummy let bin Laden walk away from Tora Bora in the winter of 2001 & 2002
so he could have a boogie man out there in order to have his Iraq war. But no worries Republicans
in Congress will hold another Benghazi investigation.

NV Whino

[NV Whino]

42. Unfortunately there is a large number of people out there with short term or selective memories

Most of them are called Republicans.

[Botany]

43. When I was a kid living in NW PA our next door neighbor's brother was Governor of PA

That was in a very middle class neighborhood and a different time but Ray Shafer was
a good guy who played w/the kids and a Republican too. He was for the environment,
civil rights, education, infrastructure, and unions but today he would have no home in the
republican party today.

BTW the media helps in this history rewrite too by changing the subject such as the bull
shit now being thrown at President Obama that he doesn't know what to do about ISIS
which is a mess made by w, Cheney, Rummy, and so on.

[Helen Borg]

23. They were not doing nation building...

They were just assisting them in building the nation... :/

[Dont call me Shirley]

25. Trying to avoid prison time. The tides are turning against these war criminals and Rummy is one.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002678829

[mountain grammy]

26. Really, Rummy, now a warning.

A self serving war criminal.

[gordianot]

30. Donald Rumsfeld convinces me the need for Capital punishment for War Crimes.

World War II punishment was primarily hanging for the International Courts as was Adolph Eichmann in Israel. How about Rummy being burnt at the stake?

[kairos12]

31. Not nation building, nation looting.

[fredamae]

32. Lol-Nice try donnie. STUPID, but still-nice try........ n/t

[Ahpook]

33. Right

As if that idiot made any decisions at all.

I'd be surprised if that stupid motherfucker can tie his own shoes.

[mercuryblues]

37. Going all out

to make Jebbie look like the smart one.

[Punx]

38. Sounds like the Rats are starting to turn on each other.

I'm sure he was So concerned at the time. Certainly showed at the press conferences.

[Martin Eden]

39. If we simply installed a new dictator, could it still be called "Operation Iraqi Freedom"???

I always thought the following was more appropriate:
Operation
Iraqi
Liberation

As for Rummy, what this war criminal has to say is worthless -- unless it leads to a take down of these warmongers and a public rejection of further war crimes under the guise of democracy and protecting the American people.

[Solly Mack]

44. The poor dear. So misunderstood.

Fuck him.

[Arkana]

46. Translation: "Please give me a job in your administration, Jeb, I've got the shakes."

"Need to bomb some brown people."

[vkkv]

47. Let the finger pointing begin. All the way to the Hague.

I wonder if something is happening re: international charges that we don't yet know about..

[Sunlei]

50. Iraq should ask for extradition of these war criminals before they die of old age.

[7962]

51. So i guess that leaves Cheney & Bush as the only ones still defending it....

As far as the old "if we knew then what we know now" question goes

[OnyxCollie]

53. From the Pentagon propaganda:

06-F-1532BriefingsandTalkingPoints2001-2003Folder2

Casualties

"The young men and women that are out there are doing a superb job, and the outcome is clear: it will end, and Saddam Hussein's regime will be gone, and the United States will be a safer place for it. How long is not knowable. How many casualties is not knowable. And that's just the only honest thing anyone can say." - Secretary Rumsfeld - 3/23/03 - Meet The Press

[Botany]

55. 230,000 Vets w/traumatic brain damage

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/healing-soldiers/blast-force.html

According to the U.S. Department of Defense, between 2001 and 2014 some 230,000 soldiers and veterans were identified as suffering from so-called mild traumatic brain injury (TBI), mostly as a result of exposure to blast events. The variety of symptoms associated with the condition—headache, seizures, motor disorders, sleep disorders, dizziness, visual disturbances, ringing in the ears, mood changes, and cognitive, memory, and speech difficulties—the fact that they resemble symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), and the fact that exposure to blast events often was not logged in the early years of the campaigns in Afghanistan and Iraq make it impossible to pin down casualty figures.

[herding cats]

56. There he goes again, trying to wiggle out of his share of blame.

He wrote the book on how to revise history while lessening your own role in the damage done by the US war in Iraq.

He's in his 80's, and maybe he's at a point in his life where he's beginning to believe his delusions? I doubt that though, he's egotistical and enjoys bantering with the media still. It's more likely he's out spreading what he wants the world to think of him, and fully expects the world to believe him completely, and they dare not let the evidence to the contrary stand in the way of the legacy he expects.

[OnyxCollie]

57. "Precisely because we have no territorial objectives,

our gains are not measured in the losses of others."

RENEWING AMERICA’S PURPOSE
Policy Addresses of George W. Bush
July 1999 – July 2000

Foreign Policy: A Distinctly American Internationalism
The Ronald Reagan Presidential Library
Simi Valley, California
November 19, 1999

Some have tried to pose a choice between American ideals and American interests – between who we are and how we act. But the choice is false. America, by decision and destiny, promotes political freedom – and gains the most when democracy advances. America believes in free markets and free trade – and benefits most when markets are opened. America is a peaceful power – and gains the greatest dividend from democratic stability. Precisely because we have no territorial objectives, our gains are not measured in the losses of others.

And we firmly believe our nation is on the right side of history – the side of man’s dignity and Gods justice.

At this moment of opportunity, I have no intention of betraying American interests, American obligations and American honor.

Unless a president sets his own priorities, his priorities will be set by others – by adversaries, or the crisis of the moment, live on CNN. American policy can become random and reactive – untethered to the interests of our country.

American foreign policy must be more than the management of crisis. It must have a great and guiding goal: to turn this time of American influence into generations of democratic peace.

This is accomplished by concentrating on enduring national interests. And these are my priorities.

He should defend America’s interests in the Persian Gulf and advance peace in the Middle East, based upon a secure Israel. He must check the contagious spread of weapons of mass destruction, and the means to deliver them.

All the aims I’ve described today are important. But they are not imperial. America has never been an empire. We may be the only great power in history that had the chance, and refused – preferring greatness to power and justice to glory.

"I just want you to know that, when we talk about war, we're really talking about peace." ~ George W. Bush, Department of Housing and Urban Development, Washington, D.C. (June 18, 2002).

[deminks]

58. Wait, you told us that freedomdemocracy was just 'untidy'.

I hope you have poof of your 'concern' for the courts.

[yellowcanine]

59. Under the bus you go, George!

What a sorry excuse for a human being you are, Rummy.

[Jake Stern]

60. Was wondering when Rummy would have his 'McNamara Moment'

Too little, too late.

[UpInArms]

61. fucktards thought they could "spread" democracy like peanut butter

hate is too mild a word for what I feel for the neocons and their never ending wars

[Kali]

62. as if he is any more credible

than dimson

[ismnotwasm]

65. No shit

What a waste of a human.

[suffragette]

66. Some of us remember PNAC and regime change

Rumsfeld signed it, pushed it, and needs to live with his disgusting legacy.

[Rex]

67. Only in this country could that lying sack of shit say that and not worry about the M$M.

Rummy spent YEARS begging people to go to war with Iraq! It was HIS plan, amazing he has the guts to proclaim otherwise!

[laserhaas]

68. Cheap seat chicken-chit banter from a man who wasted American lives

for the sake of playing power warrior.

This is one guy, along with Dick Cheney, who should literally

fall upon their swords!

[Skittles]

69. LOL

Love how he pretends Bush wasn't a puppet and he and Cheney were not puppet-masters

[tblue37]

72. PNAC signer Rummy was, like all the PNACers, looking for a new "Pearl Harbor"

to justify attacking Iraq, stealingtheir oil, and using Iraq as a base for remaking the entire Middle East.

After the Pentagon was hit, Rumsfeld said, "Go massive. Sweep it all up. Things related and not."

Bush was a useful idiot, a figurehead. The puppeteers were Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz. Sure, Bush Baby wanted to be a war president, and he was gung ho to go after Hussein, but the plan was Cheney's, Rumsfeld's, et al., and they were the ones who saw that 9/11 could be used to put their plan into motion. They also were the ones who so badly mishandled Iraq after the mission had supposedly been accomplished.

So now he wants to pretend that *Bush* was running the show, making all the big decisions? Yeah, right.

ON EDIT: Rummy specifically told his subordinates to comb the intercepted communicaions and other info to look for something that would justify invading Iraq.

[JustAnotherGen]

76. Liar Liar pants on fire

There's a great documentary out there - saw it in a theater years ago . . .

No End In Sight

[PuraVidaDreamin]

78. I think we could call this a known known.

What a rat!