Fighter Pilots Claim Intimidation Over F-22 Raptor Jets

[maddezmom]

Source: ABC

May 7, 2012

Two F-22 Raptor pilots have said publicly that not only are they afraid to fly the most expensive fighter jets in American history, but the military has attempted to silence them and other F-22 pilots by threatening their careers.

"There have been squadrons that have stood down over concerns. And there's been threat of reprisals," F-22 pilot Josh Wilson told CBS News' "60 Minutes" Sunday. "There's been threat of flying evaluation boards clipping our wings and doing ground jobs. And... in my case, potentially getting booted out of the Air Force.

"So right now there's an example being set of, 'Hey, if you speak up about safety, you're going to be out of the organization,'" Wilson said.

Despite the Air Force's glowing descriptions of the next-generation jet as America's future of air dominance, as an ABC News "Nightline" investigation broadcast last week found, unknown problems with the plane's oxygen system have already contributed to the death of one pilot, the near-death of another and mid-air scares for dozens more.


Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/fighter-pilots-claim-intimidation-22-raptor-jet-concerns/story?id=16294011

[arcane1]

1. Don't we already have "air dominance"?

[HereSince1628]

2. Look, it's like post office planning...We MUST have the dominance for the next 75 years. RIGHT NOW!!

And just so what??? about the oxygen problem. It's just a technical snag whose solution will add a hundred million to the price of each unit.

That's a small price to pay for being provided the piece of mind of having the most profitable Military Defense Industry in this part of the galaxy.

[Lasher]

5. Doin right ain't got no end.

[sharp_stick]

6. So far

but don't forget another country working pretty hard on the military industrial complex.



Now that the Russians are out the "defense" industry needs a new competitor and the Chinese are more than happy to play ball.

[bemildred]

3. Gee, what a surprise. nt

[sharp_stick]

4. Didn't the same thing happen

with the Marines and the Osprey? I seem to recall a lot of pilots and crew members worried about poor air performance and lots of safety concerns.

[pasto76]

7. hey folks this is a perfect example of how our society works. These pilots should be given medals

If you dont work in a dangerous job, feel lucky. My trade of ironworking is the most dangerous trade in construction. Like, coal mining is more dangerous. Maybe(these days) drilling is up there too.

Someone in the acquisition process or command responsible for these fighters may have been hoping for year this problem would never surface. Somebody has made false statements somewhere, or embellished reports or something. That is the chief mechanism behind trying to intimidate a whistleblower - because YOU will be busted if they arent shut up.

In DU there is a lot of hot air, people say this, bitch and moan about that, criticize the other thing. Few actually DO anything. I can empathize with these pilots. I called bullshit on some members of the volunteer mountain rescue team here in colo springs. They very arguably endangered members of the public during a mission response. Boy did they have a sad attack that I was daring to "attack" the "structure" of the team. What that really means is how dare you suggest Im not perfect, or at least better than you and now my injured ego will respond with fury and outrage. And slander. They slandered me right off the team(obviously Im a PTSD case, right?) via personnel in the county sheriffs office.

Its the community I was helping that loses. My garden this year is spectaular.

Back up these pilots. Honor their integrity and courage willing to sacrifice a nice comfy career and retirement because a) they dont want to die and b) they dont want anybody else to die and think "I should have said something". They are doing the right thing.

Follow suit. Stop speaking in euphemisms and hedging everything you say (ie, "I'd almost want to do it the right way&quot . Speak plainly, Choose effective words and the right words.Stop using over the top rhetoric. And give up your ego. There are a million ways to do anything and get to the same point. If you lose the ego, you arent worried about hearing something you dont like.

[Uncle Joe]

8. We're Air Force, we don't need no stinkin oxygen!

After a lengthy investigation, an Air Force Accident Investigation Board could not find the cause of the malfunction but determined "by clear and convincing evidence" that in addition to other factors, Haney was to blame for the crash because he was too distracted by his inability to breathe to fly the plane properly.

Thanks for the thread, maddezmom.

[NickB79]

15. It's like an article from the Onion!

Sorry sir, I crashed your plane because I let that little breathing/living thing get in the way of piloting.

[Citizen Worker]

9. The Lockheed F-104 was known as the "widow maker." Will the F-22 be its replacement?

[obxhead]

10. I heard a blip about this on WTOP radio yesterday.

WTOP news radio in DC is essentially corporate spokesman radio in the DC area. Great traffic and weather reporting, but when it comes to news they always throw a little spin on it.

They mentioned that pilots were saying the F-22 had some kind of orientation problem and pilots were refusing to fly it. They went on to ask why pilots are refusing to fly our newest and most capable fighter jet.

Hmmmmm, most capable.

That would imply it's pilot error and not a major fault with the actual aircraft. In fact, we can't even get this aircraft into actual use which clearly indicates it is not the most capable fighter jet we have. It's still a test plane with millions upon millions sunk into it and it's not of much more use than a paper weight at this point.

To call it capable is a distortion at best.

[arcane1]

11. It's capable of absorbing tax dollars, that's what counts! n/t

[caraher]

17. We "can't even get this aircraft into actual use" because it has almost no use

It's got problems, but that's not why it's unused in combat - it's because there's no mission for it. Were we in a shooting war against anyone with modern fighter planes the F-22 would be used without hesitation and, I'm confident, to great effect. (Just because a plane is not as safe as it should be for peacetime flying doesn't mean it's not effective in combat!)

But the wars we're fighting now don't demand air-to-air combat, and nothing would be more wasteful than trying to use an F-22 in a ground attack role. So our pilots fly it to gain and maintain proficiency and send a message that we're willing to sink more money into defense than we really need to.

[obxhead]

18. If this plane were capable it would be in use today.

It may not be used for it's described purpose, but if this plane were ready for use it would damn well be used if for no other reason than to "justify" all the money spent on it.

[caraher]

20. You'd have to start a new war to use it

Whatever else they may be, the Air Force is not stupid. The only weapon mounted on an F-22 remotely capable of hitting ground targets is its gun, and the last thing you want to do with an expensive piece of dedicated air-to-air weaponry is expose it to the chance of a lucky hit attacking a low-value target much better dealt with using drones or dedicated attack aircraft.

I'd bet not a single pilot raising these very valid safety concerns would voluntarily enter air-to-air combat flying anything else, were there a shooting war going on. The plane actually is "in use" - it's deployed with operational squadrons.

By parallel logic, no nuclear weapon in the world since 1945 is "capable."

[just1voice]

12. ABC "News" site loaded my computer with tracking cookies and pop-up windows

and it's covered with ads. The MSMedia lacks credibility as it is and the ABC site seems the same.

[msongs]

13. ABC is the F-22 of the airwaves lol nt

[Uncle Joe]

14. How do you get rid of those tracking cookies?

I tried for the longest time to exit off their site and my computer wouldn't let me.

[Smilo]

16. Use Ghostery - then you can

chose what you want to track you

Seriously, I have been using Ghostery for quite a while now and it is a good program.

[IDemo]

22. +1

You can see what's been blocked by hovering the mouse pointer over the Ghostery icon in the taskbar. The list can be extensive on many sites.

[cbayer]

19. Great NOVA documentary on the development of this plane - Battle of the X-Planes

Battle of the X-Planes: Nova
20022hrNR

NOVA follows the battles and backroom deal-making between Lockheed and Boeing in their race to win the largest defense contract ever, worth $1 trillion. Follow four years of decision-making regarding test flights, aviation engineering and contract negotiations that resulted in the Joint Strike Fighter -- a plane made to be adaptable, affordable and stealthy.

[caraher]

21. Wrong plane

JSF is the F-35. The plane with the oxygen problem is the F-22 Raptor, which one a previous competition against the YF-23.

The F-35 is supposed to be the "affordable" complement to the F-22, with a strike role (the F-22 is dedicated to air-to-air combat).

[sgsmith]

23. Maintainers being hit by hypoxia symptoms

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2012/05/air-force-f22-maintainers-illness-050712/

Oxygen problems plaguing the Air Force’s F-22 stealth fighter are afflicting maintainers working on the plane — as well as pilots — with dizziness, nausea and other hypoxia-like symptoms, Air Force Times has learned.

At least five ground maintainers complained of illness between September and December, Air Combat Command spokesman Lt. Col. Tadd Sholtis said in an Air Force Times article that hit the newsstands Monday. The maintainers grew sick after breathing in ambient air during ground engine runs, a congressional aide told Air Force Times.