Defense Dept. Asks Armed Civilians to Stop Guarding Recruiters

[SecularMotion]

Source: NY Times

The Defense Department on Friday asked armed civilians who have volunteered to guard military recruiting stations across the country in the wake of the mass shooting in Chattanooga, Tenn., to leave their posts.

The Pentagon said in a statement that it took the safety of its enlisted and civilian personnel “very seriously” and that Defense Secretary Ashton B. Carter was reviewing recommendations to improve security at all facilities, including recruiting stations.

The presence of armed civilians, it said, might cause safety problems.

“While we greatly appreciate the outpouring of support for our recruiters from the American public, we ask that individuals not stand guard at recruiting offices as it could adversely impact our mission, and potentially create unintended security risks,” Peter Cook, the Pentagon press secretary, said. “We continue to partner with and rely on first responders for the safety of the communities where our service members live and work.”

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/25/us/defense-dept-asks-armed-civilians-to-stop-guarding-recruiters.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

[left-of-center2012]

1. "Civilians — often heavily armed, sometimes dressed in camouflage combat fatigues"

Playing soldier. How many actually served?

[Fearless]

5. And of those who did, how many shouldn't have been allowed to?

[bulloney]

10. Manly men feeling manly about their manliness.

I've seen some civilians standing in a parking lot in front of a military recruitment office yesterday, displaying their big-ass firearms. I wondered how they would know if someone with a concealed weapon is entering the facility with the intent of shooting someone.

And if they did find out the person is armed with the intent to kill, what would they actually do in that situation? Would they actually shoot? What would happen if it was a mistake? What if an innocent bystander is wounded or killed out of the whole situation?

Personally, I'm chalking most of these incidents up to a group of guys feeling the need to show off their weapons to feel manly about themselves. I've never believed that the solution to gun violence is more guns.

[47of74]

30. And as I understand it...

...it wasn't even the recruiting station where the deaths occurred, it was at a military installation.

[jtuck004]

2. Because you are more dangerous than terrorists. n/t

[Solly Mack]

3. Stop trying to be polite. Arrest the fuckers before they get someone killed.

One of the idiots has already had an accident. And the Army has said to treat the morons as security threats.

Stop being polite already. All a potential killer has to do is dress the same, walk up to the dumbass so-called guards, blend in a few minutes, then start shooting. The idiots are creating a dangerous environment that could get people killed.

[Fred Sanders]

18. Dumbasses do seem to congregate to guns, a potential killer with a plan would be too smart to blend in with

these dumbasses.

ComicCon folks have nothing compared to the wild fantasies of the gun nut.

Notice now how the Pentagon had to step in to tell all the dumbasses gun nuts of America to go back to their mother's basements to stroke their guns and ego...any of these nuts got a job?

Why is the NRA not defending the gun nut "guards"? Where are the NRA's big manly gun nut balls on having it out with the Pentagon?

[brett_jv]

32. The point is it would be a perfectly SMART plan for an actual shooter ...

To just dress up like one of the yahoos, blend in for a few minutes until their guard is down... then start mowing people down.

It's pretty damn obvious that having a bunch of basically 'unmarked' people standing around the stations w/guns creates a situation with the potential for utter disaster.

Why? Because nobody can positively tell a 'good guy' from a 'bad guy'.

These guys doing this are freakin' MORONS. That's why they're being sent back to mom's basement by the grown-ups.

[brewens]

4. We had three douchebags outside our main recruiting station the other day.

I wished the recruiters would have told them to shove off! It's right across the street from the post office.

In the event those guys actually thought they had a threat, what would be the odds it would be a successful defense without hurting anyone innocent? It would be much more likely to be a false alarm, guns drawn, maybe shots fired, maybe someone killed.

It would have been interesting to have a dark skinned person, a very brave dark skinned person, get out of a vehicle with an assault rifle and walk toward them. He'd be just coming to join them, but what would their reaction be?

[bucolic_frolic]

6. Before you know it

they'll be showing up at every incident and creating confusion with a
real risk of escalating into vigilantism.

Authorized and legitimate constabulary forces must act to
discourage participation of civilians, no matter how well-intentioned,
in quasi-legal displays of authority.

Some may be just looking for an excuse to begin such endeavors.

[Fred Sanders]

7. Too many guns. How obvious can it get. 320 million easy-easy to get guns. Blacks get it.

Too many guns in too many hands. Guns, guns everywhere.

Until 300 million are melted there is no chance of police laying down their guns or their justified paranoia about the 320 million out there, everywhere. No chance of ending a mass murder a week with guns everywhere.

Armed guards everywhere, or no guns anywhere, you decide America.

And tell the NRA to stay the fuck away from the conversations, adults need to talk.

Too many guns is killing America psychologically and literally.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

8. "Blacks get it." From too many racist cops.

Guns not always even required. Pepper spray, kicking, baton beatings, suffocation...

It's obvious those are all caused by guns.

This is caused by the same type of misplaced loyalty that had the RC church playing checkers with pedophile priests.
Keep trying to justify that cops have any "justified paranoia".

[Fred Sanders]

11. The time has come, the debate is over. Time to start melting the metal war objects and childish rhetoric.

Which I say respectfully as when I argued for the Dixie Swastika to come down, now time for the NRA Swastika to come down.

.........to the toy box for strawmen and the vomit emoji. * sigh*

The fact that 320 million guns is a real problem for police, and for blacks and whites and all kinds of people killed by those police, in addition to civilians killed by civilians, all with guns, is a real problem for NRA propaganda, as you have so kindly illustrated.

Looks like it will indeed take cartoons for some folks to understand the logic adults use:

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

12. Keep dreaming that utopia comic and...

...keep revising til you like 'em; works for posts, should work for rights too.

The time has come, the debate is over. Time to start melting the metal war objects and childish rhetoric.

Which I say respectfully.

Try that instead of always going to the toy box for strawmen and the vomit emoji?

[NickB79]

16. Gun crimes and gun-related murders are down almost 50% in the past 25 years

The time has come? The time to enact extremely strict gun control measures (if there ever was one) was the early 1990's.

Today our violent crime and gun crime rates are down to 1970 levels.

[Fred Sanders]

17. From the propaganda coffers of NRA to you to DU. Once a time ago the Dixie flag propaganda worked.....

And then didn't.

Logic works that way because logic does not need debate, it just needs thought to end the round table discussion - the conclusion and the solution is get rid of the guns - and the collective will to make it happen.

The logic is in place, the will is coming.

[NickB79]

19. NPR and the Pew Research Center are now NRA propaganda coffers?

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2013/05/07/181998015/rate-of-u-s-gun-violence-has-fallen-since-1993-study-says

Since 1993, the United States has seen a drop in the rate of homicides and other violence involving guns, according to two new studies released Tuesday. Using government data, analysts saw a steep drop for violence in the 1990s, they saw more modest drops in crime rates since 2000.

"Firearm-related homicides dropped from 18,253 homicides in 1993 to 11,101 in 2011," according to a report by the federal Bureau of Justice Statistics, "and nonfatal firearm crimes dropped from 1.5 million victimizations in 1993 to 467,300 in 2011.

There were seven gun homicides per 100,000 people in 1993, the Pew Research Center study says, which dropped to 3.6 gun deaths in 2010. The study relied in part on data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

"Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49 percent lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation's population grew," according to the Pew study. "The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75 percent lower in 2011 than in 1993."

????

[Fred Sanders]

20. Yes, obviously, they are, you silly nut! America runs on Dunk'ns, the NRA runs on propaganda.

[NickB79]

21. So, the NRA paid for the Pew study I just linked to, and paid NPR to run it?

If anything, YOU are helping catapault the NRA's bullshit far more than I am, by helping to propagate the myth that we live in a horribly violent society where, at any moment, you could be attacked and killed.

That fear is what keeps the NRA in business, and keeps millions of Americans getting CCW permits or loaded guns in their homes. It's what gets gun-toting assholes to stand in front of recruitment centers.

The truth is that we live in a far safer world than we did 30 years ago, and most of those guns should be kept unloaded and locked up at home, because that scary criminal the gun nuts fear will likely never, ever come to get them.

[Fred Sanders]

22. Now that is just getting shrill, the logic is impeccable...too many guns. 320 million is the number.

What logically is the solution?

I asked that of my 1st Grade class as we discussed the mass murders by brainwashed and recruited civilians with easy access to one of 320 million guns, and these 6 year olds all had the same answer, made the same logical connect, the easy solution to so many guns....can you guess what it was?

[NickB79]

23. 320 million guns, and we live in the safest society in 40 years

Your logic skills are lacking. You keep ignoring the facts presented to you.

Also, you are spreading the NRA fear propaganda to 6 yr olds? Are you for real?

[brett_jv]

34. 1993 was pretty much the height of the crack epidemic and gang warfare ...

Are you certain that 1993 isn't being 'used' as the baseline for the counting for the exact same reason that 1998 is always used as the 'starting point' for the climate-change deniers and their whole 'hiatus' bunkum?

I'm not personally aware of the numbers, just asking whether or not you've considered this possibility?

Also, suicides by gun should be part of the calculus, as should accidental shootings (ones that are not technically 'crimes'), don't you think?

[Fred Sanders]

35. More to the point and in the present day reality world, the murder rate in America is spiking big time:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32995911

Why has the murder rate in some U.S. Cities suddenly spiked?

[Aristus]

9. Yeah, go get a job, you kooks...

[Locrian]

40. better yet...

they want to play soldier? Hey, why not sign up? Only a few feet away, step right up.

I'm sure we can arrange a front line position where ever we are fighting the "terrorists" in the world.

[Aristus]

41. ^^^This^^^

[bananas]

13. The article implies they're replacing them with armed National Guard troops.

Last paragraph in the article:

On Facebook, a group of civilians in Cleburne, Tex., who call themselves “Operation Hero Guard” recommended that volunteers who have been “relieved” of their posts by National Guard soldiers should leave the premises and, if they are so inclined, regroup at nearby recruiting stations that do not have military guards.

[Major Nikon]

14. All we need is more gun nuts to protect us from the gun nuts

Makes perfect sense.

[Fred Sanders]

15. Then when one of the gun nuts protecting us from a gun nut guard goes nuts, then what?

And how do you tell who is the guard and who is the mass murderer again? Both have...guns!!?

The problem is the GUN. So simple a concept untold billions are spent fighting the logical connection.

[jalan48]

24. These right wingers are itching to get some power.

They'd love to tell us how "it's going to be". Brown Shirts they are.

[Turbineguy]

25. I suppose it's a bit

like asking a 3 year-old not to help paint the kitchen.

[Baitball Blogger]

26. Who is targeting recruiters?

I must have missed a news article.

Though, this kind of protectionist behavior is not uncommon in right-wing communities from my observations. It's a way for people to show their loyalty and alliances to one another. I call it the "I've got your back, so don't forget to return the favor" syndrome.

I only have empirical observation to go by, but, when one of the good-buddies in the community began to get concerned that his role in a cover-up had been discovered, there was an increase of cars that drove in and promptly out of our street. It's the same vehicles, so they're not accidental excursions. It must be a silly token of loyalty, like the armed citizens who patrol the recruiting office.

[Liberal Veteran]

28. Eventually they will find out the Chattanooga shooter is dead.

Which raises the question: Why didn't they show up at theaters and schools to "guard" them after those shootings?

Certainly one would think school kids and civilians would be more in need of their dubious protection than military people.

[Baitball Blogger]

29. I know. Their reasoning is so off the charts.

Their thought process is one over-reach after the other. If the system would stop coddling their tribal affectations this would be a safer world for everyone.

[Fred Sanders]

33. If the legal and media system would drop the pretence that maybe these gun nuts are not real nuts.

Maybe the folks of hundreds of years ago writing up the constitution by the light of candles and ink wells saw a future like this where a safe society is a society armed to the teeth with armed guards for every public and private place....even armed guards for the military!

A mass murder a week is a small price to pay for all that safety that 320 million guns brings, am I right?!

Could be that is what the second amendment meant to do, arm just a few gun-toting civilian "guardians" that will hopefully be around when the shooting starts in malls and schools and theatres and stadiums and government buildings and beaches and restaurants and bars and airports and bus stations and train stations and parking lots and places of business and adjunct military places and naval yards and military airfields and nuclear installations and bridges and did I miss something, all to protect us all from the mass murders and then all will be well?

"Why not give it a try, crazy as it sounds", says the NRA.

No double fucking thanks, N fucking RA!! Like, really, WTF??

The logic of the NRA and defenders is so fucked up even satire can not capture just how fucked up.

[heaven05]

27. DUH!!!?? ya think????

[marble falls]

31. Only in 'Murica! Booyah! I just got to know how many of these guys served.

[left-of-center2012]

36. Give out a loud "Rebel yell"!

I've got a feeling these armed "patriots" are the same kind of folks who support the Confederate flag and cops who kill unarmed civilians.

[pasto76]

37. Eveyr single one of these people 'guarding' somewhere KNOWS they wont get shot at

if it took since 2009 for another murder to happen by a gun nut at a recruiting center, they all know the odds are pretty fucking low that another lone wolf nutjob will pop up this week.

That makes these people pretty lame and sad.

Special disdain for the 'armed constitutionalist' type (a la cliven bundy supporters) who SAT OUT the wars in iraq and afghanistan. These people are a special type of schmuck.

The army in which I serve has pretty strict rules with firearms for a reason. And there is a REASON that we changed the term from 'accidental discharge' (2003) to NEGLIGENT discharge. Accidental discharge is in fact, 100% due to negligence.

In the meantime just imagine how easy it would be for one of these people to get all fired up, and go from 'protecting those the government wont' to a raving Jade Helm conspiracist - which is why all personnel have been instructed to ignore and not interact with them.

Ive stated pretty much the same thing on IAVA fb page and surprise I got a bunch of likes.

[olddots]

38. This is practice for the big parade

[Historic NY]

39. Your going to like this group bows and arrows....

http://www.recordonline.com/article/20150723/NEWS/150729696