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Sat Aug 1, 2015, 05:36 AM

Australia walks away from Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal talks

Source: The Guardian

The world’s biggest regional trade deal – Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) – is still within reach despite Australia walking away empty-handed from the latest talks, the federal government says.

The trade minister, Andrew Robb, confirmed that a conclusion was not be reached on the $200bn deal during the latest round of negotiations in Hawaii.

“Australia had made some excellent progress but unfortunately some difficult issues were not resolved,” he said on Saturday.

Robb has laid the blame for the failure to come to an agreement with the “big four” economies of the US, Canada, Japan and Mexico. “The sad thing is, 98% is concluded,” he said.

Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/aug/01/australia-walks-away-from-trans-pacific-partnership-trade-deal-talks?CMP=soc_567

132 replies, 10454 views

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Reply Australia walks away from Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal talks (Original post)
n2doc Aug 2015 OP
Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2015 #1
n2doc Aug 2015 #2
Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2015 #3
djean111 Aug 2015 #5
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #11
djean111 Aug 2015 #12
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #15
djean111 Aug 2015 #48
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #49
djean111 Aug 2015 #50
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #52
djean111 Aug 2015 #53
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #54
djean111 Aug 2015 #55
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #56
djean111 Aug 2015 #57
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #58
djean111 Aug 2015 #59
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #60
djean111 Aug 2015 #62
840high Aug 2015 #108
Ned Flanders Aug 2015 #67
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #74
erronis Aug 2015 #70
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #76
eridani Aug 2015 #78
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #81
eridani Aug 2015 #85
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #92
progressoid Aug 2015 #97
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #101
eridani Aug 2015 #98
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #103
eridani Aug 2015 #104
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #107
GitRDun Aug 2015 #100
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #105
nikto Aug 2015 #115
bread_and_roses Aug 2015 #14
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #16
bread_and_roses Aug 2015 #18
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #19
Salviati Aug 2015 #30
djean111 Aug 2015 #116
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #117
djean111 Aug 2015 #118
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #119
djean111 Aug 2015 #120
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #121
djean111 Aug 2015 #122
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #123
djean111 Aug 2015 #124
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #125
djean111 Aug 2015 #126
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #127
djean111 Aug 2015 #128
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #129
PSPS Aug 2015 #36
jalan48 Aug 2015 #69
rhett o rick Aug 2015 #72
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #79
rhett o rick Aug 2015 #82
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #83
Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2015 #45
villager Aug 2015 #64
rhett o rick Aug 2015 #73
Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2015 #87
rhett o rick Aug 2015 #89
Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2015 #95
rhett o rick Aug 2015 #68
djean111 Aug 2015 #4
FreakinDJ Aug 2015 #28
Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2015 #46
djean111 Aug 2015 #47
bvar22 Aug 2015 #66
restorefreedom Aug 2015 #94
rhett o rick Aug 2015 #61
Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2015 #86
rhett o rick Aug 2015 #88
fingrin Aug 2015 #6
snot Aug 2015 #39
Monk06 Aug 2015 #132
Enthusiast Aug 2015 #7
marble falls Aug 2015 #8
DCBob Aug 2015 #9
Sunlei Aug 2015 #24
DCBob Aug 2015 #31
malokvale77 Aug 2015 #10
GoneFishin Aug 2015 #13
SoapBox Aug 2015 #25
Sunlei Aug 2015 #29
SusanCalvin Aug 2015 #37
GoneFishin Aug 2015 #109
SusanCalvin Aug 2015 #111
GoneFishin Aug 2015 #113
harun Aug 2015 #110
eppur_se_muova Aug 2015 #17
Sunlei Aug 2015 #22
eppur_se_muova Aug 2015 #23
Sunlei Aug 2015 #26
eppur_se_muova Aug 2015 #27
Sunlei Aug 2015 #34
eppur_se_muova Aug 2015 #35
Sunlei Aug 2015 #41
hedda_foil Aug 2015 #130
DCBob Aug 2015 #32
jeff47 Aug 2015 #63
valerief Aug 2015 #71
jwirr Aug 2015 #20
NCjack Aug 2015 #42
Sunlei Aug 2015 #21
TBF Aug 2015 #33
SusanCalvin Aug 2015 #38
snot Aug 2015 #40
Michigan-Arizona Aug 2015 #43
daleo Aug 2015 #44
lark Aug 2015 #51
saidsimplesimon Aug 2015 #65
Elmer S. E. Dump Aug 2015 #75
villager Aug 2015 #77
Jack Rabbit Aug 2015 #80
villager Aug 2015 #84
rhett o rick Aug 2015 #90
villager Aug 2015 #91
rhett o rick Aug 2015 #93
villager Aug 2015 #99
blackspade Aug 2015 #96
raindaddy Aug 2015 #106
raindaddy Aug 2015 #102
cstanleytech Aug 2015 #112
nikto Aug 2015 #114
bvar22 Aug 2015 #131

Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 05:42 AM

1. Australia doesn't believe in trade with other nations???

 

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #1)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 05:44 AM

2. You've gotta try harder than that

Really, not a strong effort at all.

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Response to n2doc (Reply #2)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 05:46 AM

3. (Shrug) It's good enough for Obama.

 

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #3)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 05:58 AM

5. Yes, because Obama is quite up front about his corporate leanings. Only the GOP

 

and Obama - and some DINOs - want this thing.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #5)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 08:14 AM

11. Actually you have that a little twisted ...

 

Only the GOP Leadership wants it, the GOP base opposes it. President Obama wants it and a majority of the Democratic base favors it (though the base opposed FastTrack), but the Democratic leadership opposes it.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #11)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 08:18 AM

12. If a majority of the Democratic base favors it, then they have no idea what it really is,

 

and probably have swallowed the lie that it is about trade between countries. Which we already have. Or they are merely thinking that if Obama wants it, it must be GOOD! No critical thinking needed!

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Response to djean111 (Reply #12)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 08:27 AM

15. Either way, the Democratic base polls as supporting the TPP ...

 

BTW ... do you realize how elitist your comment looks?

When one gets to a point where a group is not really that group because they don't agree with the smartness of me (and those that agree with me) ... it's probably time to step back and self-reflect.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #15)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 02:49 PM

48. To be clear, I base my hatred of the TPP on what I have seen leaked about it, and what

 

has dribbled out about it in the news. There are protesters in many other countries, too.

And to be very clear - I would never consider basing my feelings on legislation - or any damned thing at all - on what the "Democratic base" thinks. I will think for myself.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #48)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 03:08 PM

49. LOL ...

 

I base my hatred of the TPP on what I have seen leaked about it, and what has dribbled out about it in the news. There are protesters in many other countries


And,

I will think for myself


From that ... It is just as easy to say you base your opinion on what other people lead you to believe.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #49)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 03:17 PM

50. Better than just being a lemming, following the "D" on a jersey. n/t

 

The people for the TPP are just saying oh, trust us, it is gooood. That train has left the station.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #50)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 03:40 PM

52. And anonymous sources ...

 

provide unverifiable "leaks" and you leap because "They say it's BADDDDD" ... Yep, that's thinking for one's self and infinitely better than "being a lemming" and waiting to the agreement is finalized so we can have an informed discussion.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #52)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 03:53 PM

53. Any discussion will be moot. Fast Track.

 

I guess the people in other countries who are protesting these "trade" agreements are "Bad Democrats!!!!", too.
Australians and New Zealanders - BAD Democrats. Even the ones who are in on the negotiations, right? Bad Democrats.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #53)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 04:01 PM

54. Well ...

 

No ... the other protesters of other nations are not Democrats at all. Nor, do they operate under our system of government.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #54)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 04:06 PM

55. That was my point. But they have pretty much the same objections.

 

What does their system of government have to do with objecting to the TPP?
I don't really care about our system of government, or theirs, when it comes to the actual agreements.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #55)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 04:11 PM

56. Agreements that haven't been reached. Look ...

 

I have no opinion on TPP, as there is nothing beyond speculation upon which to form an opinion.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #56)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 04:13 PM

57. You are completely discounting the leaks, and the very detailed objections

 

that countries like Australia and New Zealand have expressed?

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Response to djean111 (Reply #57)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 04:20 PM

58. Well ... Yeah. Why get hot and bothered about discussion points ...

 

that MIGHT make it into the agreement, as if it/they were actually IN the agreement?

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #58)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 04:27 PM

59. By the time they are IN the agreement, fast track kicks in, and all we can do is watch.

 

Actually, then, why do you care if some of us are "hot and bothered"? Bad chi'i?

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Response to djean111 (Reply #59)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 04:31 PM

60. Well, if the bad stuff is in the agreement ...

 

then, make the argument to the US legislators, in the position to vote down the agreement.

why do you care if some of us are "hot and bothered"? Bad chi'i?


Well ... Yes. I hate seeing passionate people make fools of themselves ... that's bad Ju Ju.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #60)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 04:46 PM

62. Oh, no worries - and I mean this, honestly, in the nicest possible way -

 

who is anyone here to decide that others are making fools of themselves? To who, exactly? I don't really care what others think, if I think something is rotten, then that is that. For me. And, really, I am afraid all the necessary palms have been greased with corporate cash. But we can all voice our objections. For me, if this is as bad as, say, the Australians and New Zealanders (and Europeans objecting to the TTIP) say it is - I will simply and absolutely never vote for anyone who had their hand in it, ever again. Helped write it, shilled for it, pronounced it a gold standard. I can pretty much use the membership of the New Democrat Coalition to make my Congressional DINO list, and then there are others who shilled for it. No drama. Just no votes. Ever.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #62)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 11:33 PM

108. Thank you.

 

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #52)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 05:19 PM

67. How long is it classified?

 

Don't you mean, we can have an informed discussion four years after it's passed, and has finally been declassified?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/14/opinion/dont-keep-trade-talks-secret.html?_r=0

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Response to Ned Flanders (Reply #67)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 06:36 PM

74. This canarnd has been raised before ...

 

the agreement will not be classified ... if you look a little more deeply, you will see the DRAFTS of the final document, and the negotiating memos, will be classified for 5 years after adoption ... not the final agreement.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #15)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 05:25 PM

70. Elitist. Or condescending. These are the new negative buzzwords without content.

I'm not arguing with you, 1StrongBlackMan, but I don't understand how injecting a term like "elitist" into a conversation does anything other than trying to be negative.

I just spent a generally pleasant weekend with a couple of liberal friends who were staunch Hillary supporters. I favor Bernie and became a a quick subject of discussion. After it was clear that they were pretty set in their views, I indicated that I'd rather not discuss politics. Dismissive and condescending. When I said I didn't get my news from the T.V. set (which I don't own), I was also an elitist.

Wonderful put-downs. Almost like being a liberal, or a progressive, or a free-thinker.

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Response to erronis (Reply #70)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 06:43 PM

76. I'm sorry you didn't have a better weekend ...

 

and it's a good idea NOT to discuss politics, religion, or NFL/NBA/MLB, in mixed, or uncertain, company.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #15)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 06:48 PM

78. That's odd--my two Dem senators report 1% of calls and emails in favor

Never ceases to disgust me that people on a Democratic board cheerlead for killing people by raising the cost of their meds.

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Response to eridani (Reply #78)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 06:57 PM

81. Okay ...

 

I will accept your non-published anecdotal account of what you were told by your Senators. (I wonder how many people call their Reps to say they support something, as opposed to calling to voice opposition?)

Never ceases to disgust me that people on a Democratic board cheerlead for killing people by raising the cost of their meds.


OMG ... that's terrible! Who is doing that?

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #81)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 07:08 PM

85. You and every other defender of TPP are doing that

And you all think the following is wonderful as well

• A French company sued Egypt after Egypt raised its minimum wage.
• A Swedish company sued Germany because Germany wanted to phase out nuclear power for safety reasons.
• A Dutch company sued the Czech Republic because the Czech Republic didn't bail out a bank that the Dutch company partially owned.
• Philip Morris is using ISDS right now to try to stop countries like Australia and Uruguay from implementing new rules that are intended to cut smoking rates – because the new laws might eat into the tobacco giant’s profits.

Every single labor, environmental, and public interest group is against TPP. You, corporations and Republicans are for it. What is wrong with this picture?

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Response to eridani (Reply #85)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 07:51 PM

92. Where have I "defended" TPP? ... Please don't just disappear ...

 

I want you to learn a lesson here.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #92)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 09:58 PM

97. You're defending the supporters of TPP

Your personal support of TPP notwithstanding, your defense of them implies support.

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Response to progressoid (Reply #97)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 11:14 PM

101. Yeah, okay. n/t

 

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #92)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 10:02 PM

98. If you don't support it, why cite polling that Democratic voters support it?

Quite a bit different from just supporting the general notion of "free trade."

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/121989/trans-pacific-partnership-divides-left-dems-support-free-trade

Opponents to the trade deal point out that public opinion turns significantly more negative when people are asked about the specific impact of such agreements on jobs, wages, and the economy—the thrust of their vocal argument against the deal. In the Pew poll, 51 percent of Republicans and 44 percent of Democrats believe that free trade agreements lead to job losses, and similar numbers believe they depress wages. When asked whether trade restrictions are necessary to protect domestic industries, or whether free trade should be allowed “even if domestic industries are hurt by foreign competition,” two-thirds agreed with the latter, according to the new NYT/CBS poll. Said DeLauro: “Yes, we’re for trade. We are for trade. But not for trade agreements that put American workers at a disadvantage. And when you describe that, and you listen to what the concerns are of people, then they change their minds as to what is in their benefit. So you have to go beyond the first question that is asked.”

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Response to eridani (Reply #98)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 11:18 PM

103. Because ....

 

The polling indicates something different from the claim I was responding to.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #103)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 11:19 PM

104. Sorry--hard to keep track of subthreads sometimes. n/t

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Response to eridani (Reply #104)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 11:24 PM

107. True ...

 

And people seem to think because one does not oppose something, one must support it. That is NOT the case with me, regarding the TPP ... I have not formed an opinion.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #15)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 10:25 PM

100. There seems to be a lot of what you describe going on 'ound ere n/t

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Response to GitRDun (Reply #100)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 11:19 PM

105. ???

 

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Response to djean111 (Reply #12)

Sun Aug 2, 2015, 02:48 AM

115. I completely agree with your statement

 

It is an incontrovertible fact that many many people judge the validity of an idea by who supports that idea whom they happen to like, rather than actually trying to understand the idea in any kind of objective way.

So we get: "If So-and-so supports it, it's got to be good, so I support it too".


Using popular "leaders" to focus and guide public acceptance of a questionable new policy idea that might actually be a detriment, is the oldest trick in the ruling elites' book.

In fact, that is the entire story of the Reagan administration's success with the American working class,
whom his administration abused terribly and without respite in a series of hurtful policies
that people loved him for regardless.

A similar thing is happening here with Obama and TPP, I'm afraid.

Obama did say he admired the Reagan Presidency (for its effectiveness, I presume).
But with TPP, he's borrowing a POLICY and PHILOSOPHY page as well as a public relations one.

TPP is right out of the neoliberal U of Chicago/Milton Friedman's playbook.
But U of Chicago is Obama's Alma Mater, so maybe it should come as no surprise, eh?

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #11)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 08:22 AM

14. The Democratic base favors it? Not that I heard.

I'm not sure which base - but then, as I often note, I am not a Democrat.

Labor opposes it, as to do environmental, food safety, and just about any other rights group you can think of - I'm in too much of a hurry to type them all.

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Response to bread_and_roses (Reply #14)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 08:30 AM

16. I was referring to a poll of Democratic and republican voters ...

 

not so much the leadership of groups ... but perhaps, the poster above is correct, the people/voters are just stupid.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #16)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 09:22 AM

18. The AFL-CIO is stupid?

And believe me, it's not just the "leadership" of Labor in opposition - rank and file are not dumb, and from reading your posts I honestly don't think you'd claim otherwise.

Every major environmental organization, all of Labor, advocates for access to health care, safe food orgs, animal welfare orgs, democracy with a small "d" orgs, good government groups .... any and everyone who cares about the rights of people and the protection of the earth oppose the TPP. To pretend otherwise is disingenuous, as is dismissing them as "stupid."

CBTU has a nice, succinct summation of the TPP

http://www.cbtu.org/

CBTU Opposes Trans-Pacific Partnership

The Trans-Pacific Partnership, or TPP as it is commonly referred to, is a trade agreement being developed behind closed doors with the potential to impact 4 continents. Crafted in secrecy, this trade agreement is being designed to empower multinational global corporations over national and worker interests. Under no uncertain terms can CBTU support such a devious and shady partnership. CBTU and our Leadership stand in opposition to the TPP and any proposal that would fast track its passing and implementation. The TPP is an agreement that looks to trade worker rights for corporate profit.


I'm not around here that often, but I am always impressed with your posts. It is beyond my imagination what could make someone so intelligent defend this subjugation of people and the earth to benefit the 1% and corporate hegemony over all our lives.

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Response to bread_and_roses (Reply #18)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 09:34 AM

19. Please understand ...

 

I was snarking. (I tend to do that when I see, "No REAL {fill in the blank} would disagree with me" posts.)

I'm not around here that often, but I am always impressed with your posts. It is beyond my imagination what could make someone so intelligent defend this subjugation of people and the earth to benefit the 1% and corporate hegemony over all our lives.


I was just referring to the polling data ... I have not taken a position (in favor or in opposition) on the TPP. I prefer to actually see what I support or oppose ... I suspect, like in all complex agreements, there will be some good, some not so good (bad), and a bunch of stuff we will not be able to judge for decades.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #16)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 10:59 AM

30. It's just that too many people view politics as team sport...

Plenty of people on both sides of the isle are guilty of this

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #16)

Sun Aug 2, 2015, 06:42 AM

116. Nice how YOU inject the word "stupid", and then accuse me of saying that.

 

Old device. I said ill-informed. Not "stupid".
Ill-informed - I believe that once they are cognizant of what the TPP consists of, and stop just listening to a "leader", then I believe they would be against it too.

Asking someone about "free trade", by the way, is miles away from asking about the TPP. Very little of the TPP is about "free trade", it is about corporate rights to overrule countries.

If, as you say, there is no way to know what is in the TPP - then how the hell can the Democratic base be in favor of it? Wouldn't that be hearsay, too?

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Response to djean111 (Reply #116)

Sun Aug 2, 2015, 07:55 AM

117. Where did I say there is no way to know what's in the TPP? ...

 

I've HAVE said that it is unwise to get hot and bothered about the TPP without knowing what is actually in the TPP.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #117)

Sun Aug 2, 2015, 08:04 AM

118. Then there is no reason for the Democratic base to be FOR it, either.

 

And you keep saying we don't know what is in the TPP - wait - do you know a way? Besides the leaks?
Do you know what is in the TPP, personally?

I've HAVE said that it is unwise to get hot and bothered about the TPP without knowing what is actually in the TPP.

But it is quite rational to be FOR it without knowing what is in the TPP. Do you see the lack of logic?

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Response to djean111 (Reply #118)

Sun Aug 2, 2015, 08:21 AM

119. ...

 

Then there is no reason for the Democratic base to be FOR it, either.


Very true.

And you keep saying we don't know what is in the TPP - wait - do you know a way? Besides the leaks?


Yes. Treat the TPP just like any other negotiated international agreement ... we wait until the trade partners reach agreement ... then, it will be submitted to congress (made public).

Do you know what is in the TPP, personally?


No.

But it is quite rational to be FOR it without knowing what is in the TPP. Do you see the lack of logic?


Where have I said that?

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #119)

Sun Aug 2, 2015, 08:32 AM

120. I believe this conversation started when you said that the Democratic base was for

 

the agreement, and I said that perhaps they don't know what is in the agreement, and then you spun that into me saying they were stupid. If I cannot have a negative opinion, by your logic, since I don't know exactly what is in it, why would the opinion of the "Democratic base" on the TPP have any point at all? Just because they obediently fall in line?

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Response to djean111 (Reply #120)

Sun Aug 2, 2015, 08:39 AM

121. No ... the conversation start with someone saying ...

 

that only republicans, President Obama and DINOs support the TPP. I referred to a poll indicating otherwise.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #121)

Sun Aug 2, 2015, 08:45 AM

122. If no one actually knows what is in the TPP, the poll is pointless.

 

And I was referring to Congress, where the only people supporting the TPP are the GOP, Obama, and DINOs.
Plus, sorry to say this, but very few in DC really care about "the base" until they need votes or money.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #122)

Sun Aug 2, 2015, 09:12 AM

123. I agree; but, it does refute the initial comment about who supports the TPP ...

 

And I was referring to Congress, where the only people supporting the TPP are the GOP, Obama, and DINOs.


Perhaps, you were ... But that is a relatively late qualifier to your comment.

Plus, sorry to say this, but very few in DC really care about "the base" until they need votes or money.


That is arguable; but, I largely agree.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #123)

Sun Aug 2, 2015, 09:26 AM

124. My posts concerning the support for the TPP have always been about Congress and Obama.

 

I have stated that support for the TPP, whether actual votes or shilling, will determine my voting forever.
Many many times.

I never considered that the people had any say at all in this. No say at all. I was actually puzzled when you brought up the Democratic base, because they are not going to be informed until it is a done deal. Not a word can be changed. GOP, Obama, and DINOs. The base will not/does not count.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #124)

Sun Aug 2, 2015, 09:59 AM

125. Okay ...

 

what do you think about the Iran Nuclear Deal?

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #125)

Sun Aug 2, 2015, 10:01 AM

126. Look likes the best we can do. I am for it.

 

It does not cancel out how I feel about the TPP and how I will vote in the future, though.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #126)

Sun Aug 2, 2015, 10:10 AM

127. I ask because the Iran Deal played/plays out exactly like the TPP ...

 

Closed negotiations ... classification of negotiation notes ... presented to Congress as an up or down vote.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #127)

Sun Aug 2, 2015, 10:19 AM

128. The Iran deal will not affect the daily lives of almost everybody. I am counting all of the "trade

 

agreements here - TPP, TTIP, TISA. That is not such a good analogy. Do you really think I am just upset about the secrecy? In this case, I feel the secrecy is because it reeks. The Iran deal is not the corporations being given power over countries.
Apple and oranges.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #128)

Sun Aug 2, 2015, 10:23 AM

129. Okay. n/t

 

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Response to bread_and_roses (Reply #14)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 11:28 AM

36. They don't. However, it's heavily favored by the swooners and that's all that matters to swooners.

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Response to bread_and_roses (Reply #14)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 05:24 PM

69. I think that would be the 'corporate base' favors it. You know, the Waltons for example.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #11)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 05:40 PM

72. Corporations want it. That should be a big red flag. Environmentalists don't want it.

 

Doctors Without Borders don't want it. Unions don't want it. But conservatives do want it. This is part of the class war being waged by the conservatives and corporations.

They are including in the Agreement, a package that will designate something like $400 million to be used to compensate those Americans that will lose their jobs. They are admitting that Americans will lose jobs, hello. It looks like the money will come from Medicare, or maybe the taxpayers, certainly not from the corporations that will profit from it. And what good is compensation for Americans that lose their jobs? Training for non-existant jobs? Food stamps?

Conservatives claim that this will help the economy grow and that's how Clinton proposes to fix the wealth gap. But we all know that rising tides only lift yachts.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #72)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 06:50 PM

79. Be that all as it may ...

 

the polling indicates that the majority of persons self-identifying as Democrats indicated they supported the TPP.

I have not taken an opinion of the agreement, as I prefer to know what I am supporting or opposing based on what I have read of what IS ... Not what others say I should think about what they have read from what was leaked.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #79)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 07:03 PM

82. That's like standing on the train track and saying that you will wait until after the

 

train hits you to decide if you are in danger.

The problem with your thinking is that there is absolutely no reason to think that this Agreement will help the working people. There is a lot of evidence to the contrary.

And they have indicated that American will lose jobs. What rewards could make up for that?

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #82)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 07:06 PM

83. Okay. I disagree; but, okay. n/t

 

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Response to djean111 (Reply #5)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 02:25 PM

45. Don't forget the Hillary supporters....

 

They're for it whole heartedly.....



.....until they hear her come out against it.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #45)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 05:06 PM

64. Except that she won't come out against it.

 

And I'm not expecting them to dare deviate.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #45)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 05:52 PM

73. Actually I disagree. I haven't found anyone that provides any arguments in favor of the TPP.

 

There are those that attack those of us that are against the TPP but they never enter a discussion to explain the benefits. The two arguments I've heard are, "Obama likes it, therefore, I like it," and "Trade is good." Well, to be fair, there is another arguement but I really don't count it. "We need this "Trade" Agreement to fix the last POS Trade Agreement.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #73)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 07:29 PM

87. Some of them are for it because Liberals are against it....

 

These are the ones that hate Liberals because they say Liberals hate Hillary and they LOVE Hillary so they hate Liberals because it's their duty.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #87)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 07:42 PM

89. I see it differently. First of all they have no idea what liberal means. Some will tell you that

 

Clinton is a liberal. Their definition is, "If you ever supported a social issue, then you can call yourself a liberal." They don't have a clue that if you support Wall Street domination over Main Street, you can not be called a liberal. If you submitted to the Boy King Bush, you can not be called a liberal. I could go on and on and often do.

Those that attack people that are concerned about the coming disaster called "free trade", do so because they think their chosen leaders want that. But they are not convinced enough to actually come up with a decent argument in favor. They confine themselves to ad hominem attacks on those daring to question the almighty authority. This is classic authoritarianism. If you haven't, read "The Authoritarians" by Bob Altemeyer. It's free on the internets or get a soft cover for a small fee.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #89)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 08:01 PM

95. Those are the Dems STILL running away from the 40 year old "Tax & Spend" moniker.

 

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #3)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 05:21 PM

68. And Corporate America. Notice that no major corporation is lobbying against this.

 

Only environmentalists, Doctors Without Borders, unions, etc. The TPP will likely screw our seniors over but those here that side with the corporations apparently don't care.

Two sides to this class war and those supporting the TPP are not on the side of the 99%.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #1)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 05:57 AM

4. For one thing, Australia believes cheaper generic medicine should be available before

 

12 years are up.

In addition - AUSTRALIA ALREADY TRADES WITH OTHER NATIONS.
Very little of the TPP has to do with actual trade - 5 chapters, I think, out of 28 or 29. The rest is corporate control over the signatories.

That
Australia doesn't believe in trade with other nations???
is either disingenuous or uninformed. People here are a bit more aware than that.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #4)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 10:39 AM

28. Thats what family members living in Austraila told me too

 

Currently they have Universal Healthcare with very good prescription drug coverage. TPP would put them on a system like we have in the USA

- they want no part of it

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Response to djean111 (Reply #4)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 02:37 PM

46. I was echoing the argument used by those that favor the TPP....

 

They claim the ONLY people who don't want the TPP are isolationists who don't want ANY trade with ANY country.

But since there seems to be some confusion, here's a picture of Queen Elisabeth picking her nose.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #46)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 02:44 PM

47. Thank you!!!! I have seen that crap argument stated seriously, as if we were all just born

 

yesterday.
And, of course, I have already copied that wondrous image. For some reason, I could not copy it directly, I had to pin it, copy it, and delete the pin.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #4)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 05:16 PM

66. I disagree.

I have been called "protectionist" and "isolationist" on DU because I have opposed the whole alphabet soup of "Trade Treaties."


Kucinich had it right.
Withdraw from every single "Free Trade" Treaty,
and renegotiate them on a bi-lateral (with each individual country) basis
with Human Rights, Wages, benefits, and Environmental Protections in the first rank of consideration.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #66)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 07:54 PM

94. he was right

would have been a good president, too

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #1)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 04:42 PM

61. STRAWMAN. No one made that claim. Insinuating questions are logical fallacies. nm

 

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #61)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 07:19 PM

86. Standard Beltway formula.

 

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #86)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 07:30 PM

88. Standard Fox Noise formula. You can make any ridiculous statement you want if you

 

phrase it in the form of a question. "Isn't Sen Sanders known for drowning kittens?"

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 06:03 AM

6. What the TPPA means for New Zealand ( posted in another thread)

Subsidized medicines

The Pharmaceutical Management Agency (PHARMAC) decides what medicines the New Zealand government buys and subsidises for use by the public. Because PHARMAC purchases in bulk and makes its decisions in the interests of New Zealanders, we pay far less for medicines than we otherwise would.

A leaked negotiating text shows what the US is demanding on behalf of its big drug companies (known as “Big Pharma”) and how the benefits New Zealanders enjoy under PHARMAC are threatened by the TPPA. Although PHARMAC itself will not be dismantled, under the leaked text PHARMAC would:

not be able to negotiate a bulk discount for medicines
have to give detailed reasons to the drug companies about every purchasing decision
give pharmaceutical companies the right to appeal PHARMAC’s decisions
publish the identities of all decision-makers around the purchasing of medicines.

If adopted, this text would strengthen Big Pharma’s leverage over PHARMAC. The drug companies’ would gain new rights and opportunities to lobby PHARMAC decision makers and challenge their credentials, demand reasons if PHARMAC rejects their ‘expert’ reports and data, and pressure its decisions by constant threats of appeal. The goal of the big pharmaceutical companies is to influence PHARMAC’s criteria and decisions in their favour at the expense of affordability for the public. If the leaked text is adopted then government would have to massively increase the health budget, reduce the availability of subsidised drugs, or increase the price paid by ordinary New Zealanders.

Affordability of medical devices
Medical devices like heart valves, replacement hip joints and lenses for cataract operations are all now being brought under PHARMAC, so the same problems will apply as with medicines.

Generic pharmaceuticals
One reason why life-saving drugs are affordable for ordinary people — in New Zealand and overseas — is the availability of “generic” alternatives to branded pharmaceuticals. Generics are identical to their branded equivalents, but cost only a fraction of the price. Their availiability helps PHARMAC keep the price it pays for medicines down.

Generics can only be sold in New Zealand where no local patent has been granted, where that patent has expired, or a licence has been issued. Another leaked negotiating text from February 2011 threatens kiwis’ ability to access generic medicines:

Patents on medications could in effect be extended, as pharmaceutical companies would be able to claim additional patents on medications where they discover an alternative use for them, or make a minor modification. This would apply even if the modification were clinically insignificant. It would effectively mean the original product would be withheld from the generic market even though its patent had expired.
The life-time of patents could be extended to take into account the time taken for a new medicine to be approved as safe.
Medsafe — the government body responsible checking whether new pharmaceuticals are safe for New Zealanders — would be forced to investigate whether the drugs they are approving have patents on them or not. This is called “patent linkage”, and it would delay the approval of generics even though drug patenting has nothing to do with drug safety.
Big pharmaceutical companies would be able to prevent generic manufacturers from using original safety testing data for longer, meaning that the registration of generic medicines is postponed.

Every delay in the availability of generic medicines means more money for big pharmacutical companies, and higher prices for kiwis.

GM Food

New Zealanders are wary about genetic modification. In 2001 The Royal Commission on Genetic Modification asked what we thought about GM, and we came back against it — we didn’t want to risk our health or our amazing natural world, we wanted to respect tangata whenua beliefs, and we didn’t trust big business to look out for our interests. Being GM-free has become part of who we are, the same as being nuclear free. It’s not just kiwis who see ourselves that way — our 100% pure, clean-green image is how we are seen by the world, and is a big advantage to our economy.

The TPPA negotiations are putting our anti-GM stance at risk. Away from the public eye, the United States and its big business lobbyists are looking to lock in a new set of rules to open our fields and our supermarket shelves to genetically modified organisms.

Labeling of genetically modified products
At the moment, any food with more than 1% GM content has to be labelled. This way, we get to choose whether or not we bring GMO into our homes. Because supermarkets know we don’t like GM, they generally don’t bother stocking GM products.

It’s no secret that the United States trade negotiators want us to get rid of our GM labeling rules. The annual US report on New Zealand’s ‘trade barriers’ confirmed that they will “continue to raise trade-related concerns with mandatory biotechnology labelling regimes”. The Biotech Industry Organization — who represent the world’s giant GMO companies like Monsanto and Cargill — have also stated that they want GM labelling restricted under the TPPA.

83% of New Zealanders are in favour of GM labelling, so let’s make sure our government doesn’t scrap it behind our backs — if they do the only winners will be the giant US agri-businesses who want to sell us their GM products.

Genetically modified crops
New Zealand law is pretty tough about introducing GM crops, and public opinion suggests that we want to keep it that way. Fortunately, all the major political parties seem to agree. However, our GMO rules are at risk — the US lead negotiator is on record stating that the US wants to use the TPP negotiations to promote agricultural biotechnology within the negotiating countries.

Food safety
GM aside, New Zealand has many other rules to make sure that plant and animal products are safe for New Zealanders and our environment — rules about how much pesticide residue can be present on our food, how food products are preserved and transported, and about testing to make sure imported products meet our standards. These rules (called “Sanitary and Phytosanitary Measures” and “Technical Barriers to Trade”) are especially important to New Zealand because we need to protect our unique eco-system and our extensive agricultural and horticultural industries.

There are already international rules around how countries set their own measures. The US and its farmers lobby is pushing for all TPPA countries to adopt a more coordinated approach. Under the TPPA we risk losing the right to decide for ourself how we protect our people and the environment, instead having to follow a set of rules secretly negotiated overseas.

Worse, if we brought in new rules to restrict dangerous additives or toxic residues, investors from those countries could sue the New Zealand government for compensation in a private international tribunal. This happened in Canada last year when the giant US chemical company DowAgro Sciences sued Quebec for banning the use of a dangerous pesticide, using an agreement called NAFTA that does not go nearly as far as proposals for the TPPA. Just the threat of a long and expensive court case with a rich multinational company can be enough to get governments to back down on environmental protection measures. This isn’t right — the environment should come before corporate profits.

Tobacco

Smoking kills around 5000 New Zealanders every year. However, the number of kiwis smoking is on the decline — in large part because of tobacco control measures undertaken by the government, such as banning smoking in workplaces, increasing the cost of tobacco, and banning the retail display of cigarettes. The government has committed itself to making New Zealand essentially smokefree by 2025.

If New Zealand signs up to the TPPA, we’ll be putting our smokefree goal at risk.

This is because a leaked TPPA text shows that New Zealand’s negotiators seem willing to give more rights to big overseas companies, including the right to sue the government for making decisions which significantly hurt their investment. This process is called Investor-State Dispute Settlement and it takes place in secretive offshore arbitration tribunals, bypassing New Zealand’s courts. Anti-smoking measures taken by our government could be challenged by the tobacco companies if we sign the TPPA.

If you think this sounds far-fetched, it’s not — the Australian government is currently being sued by Philip Morris for its new plain packaging policy under an old international agreement between Australia and Hong Kong. Even though Australia’s highest court has ruled in favour of plain packaging, the government still faces international arbitration away from the eyes of the public, and could end up paying hundreds of millions of dollars to big tobacco for trying to protect the health of its citizens. Like Australia, our smokefree law could be challenged under an existing agreement, but it would be difficult and involve back door menouvering. The TPP would let big tobacco stride through the front door.

It isn’t just plain packaging laws that will face problems if the TPPA negotiations are completed. Other policies that could fall foul of the rules include:

banning the use of terms like ‘mild’, ‘smooth’, ‘fine';
controlling the use of flavours that disguise the foul taste of tobacco;
reducing the nicotine content of tobacco products; and
capping the number of tobacco retail outlets.

Many different chapters of the TPPA would impact on the smokefree policies, for example:

intellectual property laws could be strengthened in favour of big tobacco companies, making it easier for them to claim that tobacco control policies infringe their trademarks;

big tobacco’s factories, distibution chains and intellectual property rights would be ‘protected investments’ who could also sue;
advertisers, duty free stores, retailers, and other parts of the tobacco supply chain would also have special rights, even if they were operating by Internet from offshore; and
new “transparency” and “regulatory coherence” rules would give tobacco companies much more influence over government decisions on tobacco control. This would go against another agreement signed by New Zealand — the Framework Convention on Tobacco Control (FCTC) — requiring the government to take steps to prevent tobacco company interfering in policy-making!

All of this goes in the opposite direction to New Zealand’s obligations under the FCTC.

Alcohol

Alcohol abuse is a big problem in New Zealand. Part of the solution is setting rules around the sale of alcohol — for example, a minimum price per unit of alcohol, lower limits on the alcohol content of RTDs, and banning advertising and sponsorship by alcohol companies.

As with tobacco, a TPPA will put the New Zealand government at risk of law suits from overseas companies for trying to reduce the damage caused by alcohol abuse. This could see the government paying millions of taxpayer dollars to overseas companies in compensation, or backing down from policies that protect New Zealanders.

The government will also face pressure to allow imports of products that meet the alcohol product standards in other TPP countries, even when they are inconsistent with our own.

That already happens: under another agreement (the CER) New Zealand is bound to recognise Australia’s regulatory standards. The government had to back down this year on its intention to cap the alcohol content of RTDs popular with underage drinkers — it could not have stopped Australian RTDs, with a higher legal alcohol limit, from being sold in NZ unless it changed the CER rules. Under the TPPA we risk the same thing, but with all 10 negotiating countries. This would have the same effect as watering down our regulations to the country with the lowest standards.

As with tobacco, the government risks being bound to increased “transparency” obligations around its decision-making process for alcohol policy. In practice, this means giving alcohol companies more say in what the government does to protect New Zealanders from alcohol abuse.

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Response to fingrin (Reply #6)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 11:42 AM

39. Extremely helpful!

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Response to fingrin (Reply #6)

Mon Aug 3, 2015, 09:52 PM

132. Pharmacare is Canada's version of New Zealand's Pharmac. We buy generic and negotiate prices

for brand name drugs with drug companies the same way.

There is no way that Canada can sign on to the end of Pharmacare and have to pay retail prices set by US Pharma.

Harper could never even appear to agree with that and no other Canadian politician would tolerate it.

It would guarantee national deficits stretching into the next century as US Pharma sticks the Canadian taxpayer with a bill for inflated drug prices.

The US insistence on trade protections for US based multinationals and the right to sue governments directly to get their way on trade disputes will kill this deal. It is deal designed solely for the benefit of the US just like NAFTA.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 06:50 AM

7. Kicked and recommended a whole bunch!

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 07:27 AM

8. This treaty is only wanted by and only helps international corporations.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 07:31 AM

9. "walks away"??

Yet Robb says this..

“While we didn’t quite get there, we are definitely on the cusp.”

Concerns around automotives, data protection of biologics, dairy and sugar remain sticking points, but they are not impossible to resolve, Robb said.

“From my reading, the issues are not intractable and there remains a real determination to conclude the TPP among all parties.”


Sounds like they are more than willing to walk back to the negotiations.


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Response to DCBob (Reply #9)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 10:34 AM

24. looks to me like Drug Corp. issues is the stickie point with most countries in this trade agreement.

Wonder if they can cut out the {Drug Corp trade parts} and proceed with the rest of the trade agreement?

Let the Drug corps continue to conduct their business the way they always have.

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #24)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 11:06 AM

31. I think a compromise in the works.

Instead of 12 years patent... maybe 8 years.. although there are critics to that as well.

http://www.ip-watch.org/2015/07/27/decision-time-on-biologics-exclusivity-eight-years-is-no-compromise/

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 07:32 AM

10. Good

I'm glad someone knows how to say NO.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 08:20 AM

13. The U.S. would push this "trade" deal even if it were the only country left at the table. It is not

about trade. It is about turning over legislative control to mega corporations.

The "trade" part of TPP is subterfuge to provide cover for corporations to build trap doors into our environmental, safety, consumer protection and labor laws.

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Response to GoneFishin (Reply #13)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 10:35 AM

25. ^^^^*THIS!^^^^^

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Response to GoneFishin (Reply #13)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 10:42 AM

29. didn't you know? Corporations already control our gov and change/write laws to suit their interests.

They're called Lobbyists and several lobbyists hang around every one of our elected 'Leaders' -daily.

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #29)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 11:36 AM

37. Yep, but they want their own courts as well.

Yeah, I know they've already got the SCOTUS, but they're not guaranteed to continue to own that. Belt and suspenders.....

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Response to SusanCalvin (Reply #37)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 11:34 PM

109. And laws can be changed if enough seats in the house and senate change hands. This way they

can tie the hands of future elected leaders, and/or give them plausible deniability/cover to ignore the wishes of the voters

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Response to GoneFishin (Reply #109)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 11:51 PM

111. Exactly.

I don't care what else is in the TPP, these extra-governmental tribunals are a deal breaker.

And the people here who say "wait to judge until it is finalized" slay me. History shows that by then it will be too late.

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Response to SusanCalvin (Reply #111)

Sun Aug 2, 2015, 12:18 AM

113. That "wait to judge" ploy is preposterously stupid, as is anybody gullible enough to fall for it.



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Response to GoneFishin (Reply #13)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 11:36 PM

110. BINGO

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 08:36 AM

17. So ... China's not one of the "Big Four" ? How does that work ?

Makes you wonder if these people know what they're doing.

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Response to eppur_se_muova (Reply #17)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 10:28 AM

22. China is not in on this trade deal.

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #22)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 10:31 AM

23. A Pacific trade deal w/o China ?? Very relevant, LOL ! nt

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Response to eppur_se_muova (Reply #23)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 10:36 AM

26. This specific "Trade treaty" has been worked on for almost 7 years. China has other trade deals.

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #26)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 10:39 AM

27. Yeah, I know. But it looks like China can upset the applecart if it wants.

Well, maybe not, given their current stock market situation. :\

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Response to eppur_se_muova (Reply #27)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 11:16 AM

34. you're right,china could be upset and their stock market may reflect this.

China could be upset over lost control over some other asian pacific countries, some who are in on this trade deal.

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #34)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 11:19 AM

35. Interesting interpretation.

First time I've heard it suggested that there might be something at least half-reasonable behind the TPP.

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Response to eppur_se_muova (Reply #35)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 12:12 PM

41. The fake island China built in the middle of all those smaller countries fishing sea shows the

world how china dominates their neighbor countries.

Small country fishermen are being killed out in those waters, heres a 'selfie' video of fishermen being killed after their boat was sunk



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Response to Sunlei (Reply #26)

Sun Aug 2, 2015, 02:20 PM

130. The rationale for the U.S. "pivot to Asia" embodied in TPP is to counter Chinese economic strength

Yeah, I know it's a ridiculous expectation, but it seems to be the thinking of the PTB.

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Response to eppur_se_muova (Reply #23)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 11:16 AM

32. I think that was sort of the point of the deal.

To counter the 800 pound Chinese trade gorilla.

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Response to eppur_se_muova (Reply #17)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 04:54 PM

63. Supporters of the TPP claim one of the points of the deal is to weaken China. (nt)

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #63)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 05:35 PM

71. Or to find WMDs. Or help Afghan women. Or control the influx of communism. nt

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 09:38 AM

20. Thank you Australia.

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Response to jwirr (Reply #20)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 12:43 PM

42. Yes -- now shut the door.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 10:26 AM

21. "Concerns around automotives, data protection of biologics, dairy and sugar" I read last year about

their Dairy industry concerns in the Australian business reports.
Australias Dairy Industry is huge and always depended on exports to Asian/pacific nations.

Our American Dairy industry has already ramped up exports of American products to Asian pacific area and was cutting out some of Australias business.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 11:16 AM

33. At least someone

is paying attention. K&R

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 11:37 AM

38. GOOD. nt

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 11:44 AM

40. Great thread; K&R'd!

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 02:09 PM

43. Thank you Australia

If I could talk my grown kid's into moving there I'd go in a heart beat, like tomorrow.......

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 02:23 PM

44. Good for Australia

Though, this might just be some orchestrated political theatre. I no longer think trade deals are helpful to the bulk of the population.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 03:20 PM

51. Obviously, Australians are far smarter than Americans.


They aren't willing to let the 1% take over their country, like we are. They aren't willing to see their people massacred every day with guns.

WAAYY SMARTER!!

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 05:09 PM

65. Until we the people are given the opportunity to

review the details of President Obama's push for this deal, how can I support that which I have no clue of the contents, consequences and benefits?

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 06:40 PM

75. I'm so torn up over this...

 

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Response to Elmer S. E. Dump (Reply #75)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 06:45 PM

77. I'm torn about when I can officially start celebrating TPP's demise!

 

It doesn't seem The Empire would give up just yet, regardless...

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Response to villager (Reply #77)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 06:57 PM

80. I'd say it's too soon for that

I expect the TPP to pass and I expect We, The People to fight it tooth and nail for years.

I don't know about you, but expect to spend the rest of my life in full rebellion mode.

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Response to Jack Rabbit (Reply #80)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 07:08 PM

84. Well, there will be that whole "saving the planet" thing

 

...unfolding in our lifetimes, too. So -- you're doubtless right.

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Response to villager (Reply #84)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 07:44 PM

90. As I see it, the computer/robot singularity will occur before we destroy the planet.

 

And when that happens, goodbye humans.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #90)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 07:49 PM

91. We'll be "deleted?"

 

It's possible.

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Response to villager (Reply #91)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 07:52 PM

93. I think our dependence will continue to grow. But they reach the point of

 

not needing us to increase their intelligence, they will simply forget us and do their thing, kinda like in the movie Her. And we won't know how to do anything.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #93)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 10:12 PM

99. Right. Their "singularity gathering" won't even involve us.

 

And we will remain increasingly "footnoted" in our self-poisoned biosphere...

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 09:24 PM

96. I won't be remotely sad....

if this turd of a 'trade deal' implodes.

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Response to blackspade (Reply #96)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 11:22 PM

106. Let's hope this is just the beginning..

As more countries decide not to betray their poor and middle class citizens by supporting the TPP.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 11:17 PM

102. Good!

One less nation given a pass to override local state and federal laws that protect US consumers...Let's hope this is the beginning of a mass exodus.

Just the fact that reps from Halliburton are given constant updates while the American people are left in the dark is unconscionable.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sun Aug 2, 2015, 12:10 AM

112. Whatever jackass wrote that should be fired they didnt walk away from shit.

When they say "We will take no part in the TPP and are walking away from it" then they will have walked away.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sun Aug 2, 2015, 02:34 AM

114. This is potentially HUGE, and wonderful!

 

Let's hope this is the beginning of the end for TPP.

We can dream, can't we?

Australia is a pretty significant subtraction.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sun Aug 2, 2015, 03:47 PM

131. I'm hoping that some of the other Island/Countries will follow Australia,

and the whole nasty thing falls into the Pacific with those who wrote & supported it.

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