Memphis City Council votes 11-1 to remove Confederate statue

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP

MEMPHIS, Tenn. (AP) — The Memphis City Council has voted to remove a statue of Confederate Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest from a public park.

Local news outlets report that council members voted 11-1 Tuesday to remove the statue of the rebel general, slave trader and early Ku Klux Klan member from Health Sciences Park.

Council member William Boyd cast the only "no" vote, while Edmund Ford Jr. was present but not voting.

FULL short story at link.

Read more: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/139d5a9333464b1795ed7fe89980078d/memphis-city-council-votes-11-1-remove-confederate-statue

[AwareOne]

1. Why stop there?

If we're going to purge our history lets do it right. I demand that all cities, towns, counties, parks, schools, streets and anything else named after a slave owning president be changed and erased from history. All statues, monuments, plaques, museums, libraries, universities etc. to be removed or renamed Lincoln ( even thought by today's standards he would be considered a white supremacist). Any reference to George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, Andrew Jackson, Martin Van Buren, William Henry Harrison, John Tyler, James Polk, Zachory Taylor, Andrew Johnson and Ulysses Grant, including depictions on coins and currency, is to be purged.
Sure it will take a lot of work, but if we hire an army of PC police we can get it done in ten years or so and then we can move on to purge all presidents who participated or authorized the removal and genocide of native Americans. Let the purge begin! And welcome to 1984!

[blackspade]

3. You may be on the wrong site....

If you can't see the difference between Lincoln and Forrest....

[BumRushDaShow]

9. Not the wrong site

because this is what DU has become. And the poster has been a member since 2001.

[Flying Squirrel]

25. Means nothing with 367 total posts

Plenty of trolls have been outed who started an account early on but stay under the radar by rarely posting. If anything, it's more suspicious-looking when someone's been here that long with so few posts, then surfaces with an opinion such as this.

[AwareOne]

26. I've been a solid Democrat since 1984

I've voted Democratic in every election since. I've marched in many protests, given thousands of dollars to Democratic causes and candidates, my wife is a long time union steward, I've written many Letters to editors, I fill my yard with Democratic candidate signs to piss off my republican neighbors, I've been an elected precincts committeeman and on and on. Alas, here I am a "troll". How about you stop judging people on their number of posts.

[Flying Squirrel]

27. I'm sure everything you just said is true.

[packman]

4. Sorry, have to get rid of Lincoln too

He once purposed that the only solution to the slave problem was to send the slaves to a colony - one purposed island near Haiti , and later a colony in Panama. Lincoln, supposedly had his doubts about blacks and whites harmony,

"One of President Abraham Lincoln's policies during his administration was the voluntary colonization of African American Freedmen. Historians have debated and have remained divided over whether Lincoln's racial views (or merely his acceptance of the political reality) included that African Americans could not live in the same society as white Americans. Benjamin Butler stated that Lincoln in 1865 firmly denied that "racial harmony" would be possible in the United States One view (known to scholars as the "lullaby" theory) is that Lincoln adopted colonization for Freedmen in order to make his Emancipation Proclamation politically acceptable.[56] This view has been challenged with new evidence of the Lincoln administration's attempts to colonize freedmen in British Honduras after the Emancipation Proclamation took effect on January 1, 1863.[56]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln_and_slavery


That being said, Forrest was a piece of shit and deserves no admiration or acknowledgment (except for his evil, murderous nature).
One must seek the middle road in all this - there is a scale of injustice and morality in all this. Do not go over the edge, just push those who deserve it over the edge.

[awoke_in_2003]

19. And he evolved on that position. nt

[rurallib]

7. They are not purging history

they are removing a statue of a bad man. Statues should be of people to emulate. Nathan Bedford Forrest was no person to emulate.

The others you list, while not perfect, did have some redeeming virtues.

While not purging history, it sure would be nice to have much more truthful history and not the pile of horse manure that many reactionary state school boards like Texas is passing off as history.

Nice try, though.

[Paladin]

8. Enjoy your stay. (nt)

[Jazzgirl]

12. Seriously. I suspect it won't be long.

[Codeine]

22. Bizarrely, it's been 14 years.

That's a long time to stay under the radar.

[AwareOne]

24. Enjoy my stay?

I've been a member since 2001, one of the founders if you will, and I have visited this site almost every day since, it is my source for news. I will call bullshit when I see it.

[Jazzgirl]

11. You aren't very aware are you.

n/t

On Edit: Meant to reply to Awareone.

[LanternWaste]

17. Pretending a memorial created to celebrate a person with actual history is the first of many flaws

Pretending a memorial created to celebrate a person with actual history is the first of many flaws in your premise. Confusing a nation state predicated on slavery with a nation state that tolerates it is another flaw. Unless of course, you believe that history cannot be taught unless this particular celebratory statue remains in place (in which case, I'd love to read your rationalization as such)

However, as yours are popular flaws, often used by hosts of talk radio shows quite trendy with the sub-literate crowd, I can readily understand confusing a celebration with history... as it allows us the fictional pretense that we both have knowledge of, and care about history.

(1984 called. It wants the sub-literate to stop abusing its valid sentiments with logical fallacies)

[Codeine]

23. Damn. That left a mark! nt

[blackspade]

2. This is great news.

Nathan Bedford Forrest was such a murderous asshole.
Good riddance.

[GOLGO 13]

5. Anything that hurts the other side I approve.

Their "heritage" is taking a beating. I am gleefully enjoying their misery. Their tears taste like candy to me.

[maindawg]

6. WOW

First we get the guy who freaks out over the PC angle and wants to slam shut the whole issue. Then we get the 'he was a murderous terrible person. Both extremes are wrong.
Forrest was the founder of the KKK. That alone is reason enough to remove the statue. However, Forrest also disbanded the KKK after only a few years when he realized what he had done. The KKK he envisioned was not what it quickly became.
He was not a murderous traitor. He was a hard working military trained well educated man of property. He was also very brave and loyal to the cause he and some several million other Americans believed in. They were all wrong, but they were not all criminally responsible.
There is a HS or two also named for him. One is in Fla.
As with all the confederate soldiers, they were and still are Americans. They should be remembered and our history needs to be widely known. All these men who owned slaves have to be remembered for who they were in proper context of the times they lived in.

[heaven05]

10. Right

everything you just wrote in defense of forrest is true, EXCEPT, he is responsible for creating an organization that has terrorized, murdered, burned, castrated, hung POC for the last 250 years only because of their skin color. Men, women and CHILDREN!!!!!!!!!. To offer up some lame reasoning that he disbanded HIS little klatch of KKK ignoramuses and that rehabilitated his image in the eyes of history is beyond belief. So he was the George Wallace of his time, changing his tune with the reality that standing in the doorway of a school won't stop POC demanding their rights as human beings nor would confronting POC with an bare AX handle do it either. That Christopher Meiners mentality that has persisted into modern america was part of the forrest mentality because he fought to keep slavery the law of the land. I could go on and on about forrest but what's the use. Unless the heart can feel evil and the mind discern it, it will always be rationalized away as something else. Those types of rationalizations are sacrosanct among a lot of the privileged class of america today.

Yeah and many today would like to return to that "proper context" of that historical time you mentioned. On DU giving a defense of Nathan Bedford Forrest, the founder of the KKK!!!! The commander of the forces that massacred hundreds of "colored" troops in the Ft. Pillow massacre. God, what this place has become.........

[maindawg]

13. God what has this place become?

Its a place where reasonable people can express opinions.
Politics are very complex. That is why 22 % or republicans support Donald. T. Some people want the world to be a simple place that even they understand,all without having to think anything through. They are called republicans. Some people understand that all issues are very complex and difficult to understand. All you can do is try , dear.

[heaven05]

15. I know my history

especially the history of american terrorist groups. That's all the KKK is dear, and the founder you're trying to defend in your very unique way, has his place in HELL, I hope, dear. Don't have to try to understand your logic in defending forrest, but tis your right, dear. on edit: Nothing complex about a racist traitor to his country and POC. The lengths some people will go to try to justify a traitor.....must have something to do with southern heritage and pride...

[LanternWaste]

18. I used to pretend that people who disagreed with me couldn't understand the complex too...

I used to pretend that people who disagreed with me couldn't understand complex thoughts too... if nothing else, it certainly trivializes anyone who may take exception to what we say. But, as we grow up, we realize it's time to put away childish sentiments.

It can be difficult to finally mature into complex thoughts, but all you can do is try, dear...

[maindawg]

20. Sweetheart

I never defended the statue. I say take it down. I just think that people like Forrest are very complex. To simply label them as terrorist is wrong. He had a family and he believed in his cause. He was wrong, they were all wrong. Lee is the worst because he did the most damage. But they were men and they behaved according to the accepted status quo of their day. They believed what they did was right. They never deliberately committed what they knew was wrong. Forrest intended the KKK to be a religious army defend what he perceived was a devastated and defenseless homeland. In the tradition of American militias that were and are so ingrained in our culture.
Its wrong to glorify any of these confederate officers because they were wrong. But to classify them as pshyo murderers, is incorrect, my love.

[blackspade]

14. What is extreme and wrong is the whitewashing of history.

Forrest was a traitor. He led traitors into battle.
He founded the KKK. He murdered and burned his way through central KY.
He massacred POWs.

But..."He was a hard working military trained well educated man of property"... and he was "He was also very brave and loyal to the cause "...of slavery. So I guess that makes it all better.

The lengths that some will go to excuse the choices of historical figures is beyond me.

[heaven05]

16. exactly--+1000

[awoke_in_2003]

21. And the people fighting for that "cause"

were all traitors. Oh, and some cause- the fight to retain the right to enslave people.