'Suicides' Over Ashley Madison Hack
Source: BBC News
'Suicides' over Ashley Madison hack
Two Ashley Madison clients are reported to have taken their lives after hackers published their details according to police in Canada.
The force held a news conference today about their investigation into the website hack at Toronto Police Headquarters.
Ashley Madison's parent company Avid Life Media is offering a $500,000 (£240,000) reward for information leading to the arrest of the hackers.
Over 33m account details were stolen.
"As of this morning we have two unconfirmed reports of suicides associated with the leak of Ashley Madison's customers' profiles," said acting staff superintendent Bryce Evans.
The police have just held a news conference about the Ashley Madison investigation at Toronto Police Headquarters.
"Today I can confirm that Avid Life Media is offering a $500,000 (£240,000) reward to anyone providing information that leads to the identification, arrest and prosecution of the person or persons responsible for the leak of the Ashley Madison database," added Mr Evans.
Read more: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-34044506
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Sunlei
(22,651 posts)millions of known 'names' ?
PersonNumber503602
(1,134 posts)That's a pretty major screw up by their security team. That is something that a basic security audit should have caught.
fasttense
(17,301 posts)If you are going to cheat, don't do it on the Internet.
Sorry to hear about the suicides.
Response to fasttense (Reply #2)
Post removed
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Holy shit, that escalated quickly.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)That phrase requires a photo be included.
fasttense
(17,301 posts)I said nothing about the GLBT community. Did this site only involve GLBT folks? If I missed that I'm sorry but the article was not specific to what kind of sex.
I thought it was simply a dating site for people who wanted to cheat on their marriages. And really people advertising it on the internet is a recipe for disaster.
And obviously in some cases it was a horrible disaster but I really don't understand that rant about GLBT folks. My wonderful, loving big sister is a lesbian and I wouldn't change her for the world. I have no problems with the GLBT community and I really don't understand how anyone can read all that crap into the few words of my post.
I give up, some folks here are just f**king cazy.
Not you, Nuclear, I just couldn't respond to the hidden post so I kind of unloaded in this one.
Bonnie Blue
(10 posts)Much more civilized than a branding iron. And given human nature, it's a pretty safe bet that at least one of your friends and family is deserving.
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roscoeroscoe
(1,370 posts)Crimson Tide?
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)From "The Scarlet Letter" by Nathaniel Hawthorne.
Moonwalk
(2,322 posts)Last edited Tue Aug 25, 2015, 01:18 PM - Edit history (1)
...honest (i.e. the hackers). We will agree that not everyone can be monogamous to their partner 100% of the time. And we will grant that if they can't be that, then they shouldn't be shamed about it. HOWEVER, you are ignoring the word "cheater." That means that the person is doing this behind their spouse's back. They are pretending to be faithful and monogamous, but they aren't being that. Should spouses really find out that their partners have cheated on them when they go to the doctor and find out they have a venereal disease? AIDS maybe? That's a hell of a way to find out your partner cheated on you.
If the partner can't stay monogamous, fine. Tell the person before you marry them that you will probably be having other sexual partners. Or at least tell them before you cheat, when you realize that monogamy is not for you. The partner has as much a right to know this, and decide if they're okay with it, as the "cheater" has a right to follow his/her nature.
Cheating breaks up marriages because "cheating" means keeping what you're keeping it secret. In the past, there was no being honest about such things because you could be stoned, shunned or forced to wear a scarlet letter. Not so now; a person CAN be honest about their nature. If they continue to lie about it, however, then they should be prepared to accept the consequences for lying. I mean, should a preacher who condemns adultery get to keep his secret lovers a secret? I believe, whole heartedly, that he SHOULD be exposed. Not because he'd following human nature, but because he LIED, and condemned others for what he was doing.
Likewise, those lying to their spouses should be exposed, because they are doing terrible damage to those partners. Keeping the extra-marital sex they are having secret from their spouses could ruin their partner's health, self-esteem, future relationships, etc. for years to come. THAT is what this is about. Stopping the person inclined toward many partners from lying to the person who thinks they're being faithful.
Bonnie Blue
(10 posts)And if those righteous hackers had used their magic skills to contact each of the spouses privately and individually to say, "Hey, I'm really sorry to have to tell you this, but we've found your spouse's name on a website devoted to cheating," then maybe I'd give them a pass. Though again, I'm not sure why that would be their right or duty. Still, for the sake of argument, let's say that's what happened. These people were genuinely concerned about the cuckolded spouses and were trying to make things right in their worldview. The cheaters were exposed to those who mattered, and the spouses were given the opportunity to make informed decisions. Enh. Could work.
But to put this information on display for the world to see? Nope. It can't be justified.
Let me add this: I did a search for the email address of my ex. No surprise that it was there. That's the reason he's an ex. My family thinks he was just a jerk. Now if any of them look, they'll see he was also a cheater. It was long enough ago (over 10 years) that it's mostly irrelevant. But had this been closer to the breakup, I can guarantee I would not have wanted to listen to the "concern" from my family, friends, and -- worse -- colleagues. It's no one else's business.
Moonwalk
(2,322 posts)Whether it's justified or not depends on whether we view the hackers as spreading private information or blowing a whistle. Whatever YOU feel about your ex and how you would have argued for the hackers to keep it private, there are men and women (the spouses) who might well get tested and save their lives now thanks to this information being released. Whereas they might have been too late to do that if they had not found out.
If THAT happens, then the hackers become whistleblowers, and their release of private info ends up having justification.
Bonnie Blue
(10 posts)As I already said, if the primary concern of the hackers was notifying the spouses, they could have done it another way. Lord knows they had the time, as they’re claiming they’ve been working on this for years.
Privately notifying the spouse serves one purpose, ie, the purpose you extol. Publicly exposing every member of that website — especially without knowing their personal stories — serves at least two purposes. I suspect more.
I don’t buy the noble whistleblower defense. But obviously we’ll continue to disagree here.
Moonwalk
(2,322 posts)...And I'm not so sure it's that easy to notify all the unsuspecting partners of these men/women. A man might be cheating on a girlfriend rather than spouse. How would the hacker know this and be able to contact her? A woman might be cheating on a husband who doesn't share her last name. How would the hacker know this?
I'm not a hacker. I gather you're not either. Exactly how easy/hard is it to contact all the spouses/partners of these cheaters?
But I suspect that the real intent was simply to shut down this business—show the cheaters that they can be exposed like this, and the business goes under. The justifiable-ness of that aim is a whole other kettle of fish.
fasttense
(17,301 posts)Are cheaters one of your favorite groups? Are you worried that cheats are discriminated against?And where did you get the idea I want to brand people?And lets face it, posting your intent to cheat on your marriage on the internet is a recipe for disaster. And obviosly it was a disaster for some.
Now please explain how you managed to read so much CRAP into so few words? It seems to take so little to get some DUers to explode into outrageous spin. Relax, I'm not going to hurt you.
Bonnie Blue
(10 posts)But to answer yours:
1. No. Cheaters are not one of my favorite groups.
2. I'm not worried that cheats are discriminated against.
3. I did not intend to suggest that you, specifically, wanted to brand people. But I can see how you might have read it that way. Sorry. The shirt-vs-branding iron comment was intended for the wider audience of moralizers. Same for the comment about friend or family member. Most everyone knows someone who is cheating -- whether they know it or not.
4. Similar to your wider reading of my comments, it sounds like I read more into yours than you may have intended. I interpreted your objective advice of "If you are going to cheat, don't do it on the Internet." as being more of a gloat, suggesting that the cheaters got what they deserve due to their ignorance of internet security.
5. I appreciate your assurance that you won't hurt me. Thank you. I wasn't worried about this before....
fasttense
(17,301 posts)I pride myself with my ability to write my thoughts coherently. But I missed the mark altogeather with those few words. Who knew that fewer words leads to more meaning? You weren't the only one to read into those few sentences. Funny thing is I'm usually very verbose. And the one time I edit myself down, is the one time I should have been wordy.
Bonnie Blue
(10 posts)And thank you for being gracious. 
apnu
(8,756 posts)"dating" is a bit of a stretch. AM was a pimp.
Blue_Adept
(6,399 posts)Or so I've seen posted repeatedly on threads here about the hack and on other articles.
In this day and age pretty much some aspect of our lives are online and nothing can be kept from it.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)With more to come.
So how is that moralizing going?
frylock
(34,825 posts)Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)They made them cheat, and made the media print names. 
blackspade
(10,056 posts)
blackspade
(10,056 posts)and likely other issues is cool?
And if these people commit suicide because their problems are made public, this bunch of moralizing assholes are not responsible?
So public shaming and possible deaths are the result but it's all good because they were cheats?
It's fucking despicable.
So yes, blood and pain are on their heads.
frylock
(34,825 posts)actively looking on websites for someone to have an affair with? This wasn't something that just happened spontaneously with someone at the office, or a moment at the coffee shop with someone you found to be too attractive to resist temptation. These people got online and ACTIVELY searched for someone to have an affair with. The suicides are a tragedy to be sure, but we're not even certain at this point if there is a connection.
Hacking is a crime. The people outed are victims of that crime. It's pretty simple.
MADem
(135,425 posts)The headline is still there, and the "reported to have taken their lives" sub-header, but the quote has disappeared.
I think the scare quotes around suicide mean that two people who used the site may have killed themselves at some point, but there's no cause-and-effect established, here.
Rose Siding
(32,623 posts)Use of the word "unconfirmed" was the tip-off.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Gone forever are the days of who/what/when/where/why, with opinions carefully attributed!
Bonnie Blue
(10 posts)or murder-suicides it will take before the hackers feel any remorse. But I suspect if they don't feel it already, they never will.
If you truly believe in privacy, you can't pick and choose whose information gets to stay private. Hacking this site may be providing loads of entertainment -- as well as opportunities for the morally perfect individuals here and elsewhere to tut-tut the moral failings of others -- but exposing all these people's most private and LEGAL activities is unjustifiable.
Rose Siding
(32,623 posts)Those failings, notably bigotry, were obvious pre-hack.
Bonnie Blue
(10 posts)But I've seen and heard too many "I have no sympathy for cheaters" comments to think the moral outrage is restricted to the religious and social hypocrites that will be outed.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)About the same as it takes for the adulterers to feel remorse, I'd guess. But I too suspect that if they don't feel remorse for 'the consequences of their own actions, they never will...
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)
Kill the adulterers!
seaotter
(576 posts)Care to share?
Bonnie Blue
(10 posts)I posted something earlier, but it appears to have gotten lost in the deluge. I'm not personally exposed, but some people close to me are. Even if that weren't the case, I still don't think I'd share the self-righteous indignation many are expressing. Adultery is no longer a crime in this nation. Though it sounds as if many here are disappointed by that fact.
If you're interested:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7102787
seaotter
(576 posts)question the judgment of anyone who would give such a web site personal info. Seems like a very bad choice. I find it hard to believe that an intelligent person would put any trust in such a enterprise. Maybe thinking with the wrong head.
Bonnie Blue
(10 posts)the headlines weren't filled with stories of CC hacking. We're not computer people -- didn't grow up with them and can't keep up with the constant changes in technology -- so we figured the alias email and screen name were sufficient. As I said in the other post, he did a background check, so he took some precautions. But our understanding of CC transactions was that they were not saved.
I suspect a lot of people thought their anonymity on the site was at least as safe as it is on Amazon reviews.
Moonwalk
(2,322 posts)What I'm saying is...is this releasing private information, or blowing a whistle? Hackers are the villains when it comes to releasing private info like the medical info of a move star to the public, and I'm in total agreement about keeping such private info private there. But hackers are the heroes when it comes to revealing something that people need to know. Something being kept secret that shouldn't be kept secret.
WE, the broader public, don't need to know who the cheaters are. But their spouses do and should. So. Is this a breech of privacy or blowing a whistle?
pipoman
(16,038 posts)About others without permission should face at least some prison time and all releases should be compounded by the number of people affected...release info on 10 people and each is a separate count...
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)the person who says that at the office, revealing Dave's extra-marital affair, deserves to go to prison in your opinion?
pipoman
(16,038 posts)Is OK then?
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)as it is about acquiring that private information. Hacking, phone-tapping, and hidden camera surveillance are already crimes that are punishable by substantial prison time.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)Unlawfully acquired or maliciously dissimanated personal information.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)alcina
(602 posts)I wonder if the hackers are proud of themselves now.
JNelson6563
(28,151 posts)There will be no remorse.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Does "self-righteous" and "lack of remorse" refer to the hackers or the adulterers?
V0ltairesGh0st
(306 posts)
daleo
(21,317 posts)I have had several close friends and relatives commit suicide. Causation is far more complicated than this, though this could have been a trigger.
2naSalit
(86,577 posts)My sister killed herself last month and it was over a culmination of a huge, decades long pile of issues, at which point the trigger was simply the last straw.
daleo
(21,317 posts)It is one of the saddest things there is.
Exultant Democracy
(6,594 posts)The hackers are wrong and these people are victims.
In part they are victims of their own stupidity, if the prospect of getting caught cheating is a life ender, don't use the internet to cheat. The hacker outing seems like one of many of the various scenarios where a cheater using this site would have been caught, so it was always a game of Russian roulette at best if this was their endgame.
nichomachus
(12,754 posts)Hackers break into Pentagon computers -- "Yawn"
Hackers break into national grid -- "Huh? What's a grid?"
Hackers break into records of people with HIV -- "Wow."
Hackers break into BofA -- "Gee, I hope my money's safe."
Hackers break into Target -- "I hope they don't void my gift card."
Hackers break into adultery sex site -- "Shriek, Scream, Call out the Marines, Hackers Must Die, Put 'em in jail and then kill 'em, Shriek, Scream, This is Horrible, People are Scum. Pant, Pant, Scream."
Pffft.
Crowman1979
(3,844 posts)Frankly, I'm glad these hypocrites like Josh Duggar and Artur Davis have been caught.
bluestateguy
(44,173 posts)???
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)and all of those things are not equal.
nichomachus
(12,754 posts)Ashley Madison is the most trivial -- and yet has gotten the most media coverage and hyperventilation on the Internet.
IT systems are inherently insecure. If there is something you don't want to become public, don't put it on the Internet. it's that simple. If your life is going to be ruined if people find out you're an adulterer, dominatrix, toe sucker, whatever. don't put it on the Internet. It's not hard.
Frank Cannon
(7,570 posts)Let this be a lesson to everyone that you can never assume that anything you do on the Internet is private. Ever. Why is this so hard for people to understand?
PersonNumber503602
(1,134 posts)Although, I still kinda dislike the "moral" reasons the hackers give to justify the data dump. I might be cynical, but their moral high horse comes off as a bit fake. They broke into the systems and had some fun, and they wanted to share with the world how awesome they are, and how poorly AM was secured.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I think the suicides are very sad, but i have a feeling that the hacking of this site wasn't the entire reason. Maybe the catalyst, but there was probably a lot more going on. It's just not fair to say hacking is ok in one case and not another. That's not even really the point. The point is that it happens all the time and if anyone thinks that their info is private on the internet, they are not very bright.
V0ltairesGh0st
(306 posts)The articles states :
Though suicide is always tragic, who was it that died ? Was it some of the cheating clients.... or was it someone they hurt ? Personally i don't have a lot of remorse for those who did the cheating, they chose to have an account , they chose to cheat, if they kill themselves out of "guilt" and/or because they got caught suicide was their choice also ...they always knew there could be consequences. If they that are greedy in life then it isn't surprising to me they'd be that greedy in death as well. What about the pain they leave behind ?
Now if it's the wives or husbands or SO's commiting suicide because they were betrayed when found out they were being cheated on it should really jolt your perspective on the whole thing...it couldn't be worse than that.
Take a look at some the names on this list people. Josh Duggar...(famed christain family values man: now disgraced cheater and convicted child molester) , Hamza Tzorttzis https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ashley-madison-hack-islamic-preacher-105942741.html#lfNWTRp.
Christian....Muslim....Male...Female.....democrat....republican.....gay........straight.... it doens't matter if you are a cheater then you must come to terms with your infidelity and being a liar one way or another.
The hackers are less to blame than the cheaters, but they really should have thought more about the consequences this hack could have on INNOCENT people. " Let Truth be told though the heavens fall " is not always as simple as it seems.
Response to V0ltairesGh0st (Reply #20)
Hissyspit This message was self-deleted by its author.
Xithras
(16,191 posts)Holy fucking pile of judgmental bullshit Batman! What people choose to do within their personal relationship is none of your business, and to even SUGGEST that death is an acceptable outcome for them is horrific.
40% of Ashley Madison users were single. Hundreds of thousands of the profiles on the sites belonged to people who were in open marriages or were swingers (IOW, no cheating involved). Most of the remainder belonged to people who never actually connected with another person, but who were simply living out a fantasy. And as for the minority who actually did use the site to connect with another person and cheat on their spouses? They are none of your, or anyone elses, business.
As for fiat justitia ruat caelum...if you really believe that death is "justice" for these people, you have some serious problems.
V0ltairesGh0st
(306 posts)I Said : "Though suicide is always tragic..." and, "Personally i don't have a lot of remorse for those who did the cheating"
These are no suggestion I that think their deaths are acceptable. Their bad decisions led to more pain, and double so for the ones they leave behind...There are going to be divorces, and custody battles, and all number of consequences...all because of people who decided to cheat.
It's all public now there is no going backwards, so now it is anyone's business especially if they are the one's who were cheated on. What I find vile is there seems to be more remorse here for the cheaters than the ones who were betrayed by the looks of this post.
I Said :... "The hackers are less to blame than the cheaters, but they really should have thought more about the consequences this hack could have on INNOCENT people. " Let Truth be told though the heavens fall " is not always as simple as it seems".
Which if you aren't reading it with a complete over-emotional reaction, clearly means that I think what the hackers did was wrong because they didn't think things through enough and that their actions could result in the deaths of innocent people. In their quest for truth and transparency they didn't factor in everything that could go wrong no matter what their intentions may have been to begin with.
Your reply is classic example of the over-emotional zealotry which mischaracterizes, and misrepresents the words of others to mean something you'd like them to mean, and not what is actually being expressed.
Xithras
(16,191 posts)It's remorse for DEAD PEOPLE. The fact that you have no remorse over a death simply because the dead hurt someones feelings is very telling. The two events are even remotely comparable, and yet you let one drive your opinion of the other.
Your reply is classic example of the over-emotional zealotry
Over emotional zealotry? Like thinking that dead people don't deserve sympathy simply because they were shitty at relationships? You've got one hell of an example of emotional zealotry there yourself.
The emotional one here is you, and not me. I couldn't give a damn if people are cheating on their spouses. Not one tiny bit. I don't get upset at it, because it's not my situation to be upset with. What other people do within the confines of their relationships is none of my business, and as a LIBERAL, I'm not going to judge them for it. I think it's silly to get upset at another persons infidelity. Moralizing over someone elses marriage is never acceptable.
As for that last line, your understanding of fiat justitia ruat caelum is flawed if you think it applies here. It's not about not failing to factor in the consequences, but about KNOWING the consequences and choosing to do it anyway. It's another way of saying "Pursuing justice will cause harm to many, including innocents, but I'm willing to cause that harm in my pursuit of justice". It's the belief that justice must be pursued simply for the sake of justice, and that the consequences, damage, and fallout of the pursuit are irrelevant to the validity of the pursuit itself. And you chose to invoke that when talking about cheaters dying, after lamenting the sympathy shown to them.
Just as importantly, you seem to be saying that invading the privacy of millions of people by breaking into computer systems and stealing personal data, committing extortion, and driving people to suicide is less of a crime than behaving in a way your spouse might find offensive. THAT is offensive.
V0ltairesGh0st
(306 posts)Ignore is a blessing good bye
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)That is never, never, never, ever okay when talking about suicide.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Clearly, we need a law against the publication of dangerous information.
HFRN
(1,469 posts)the internet, with it's extreme power unleashed on the population so fast, makes people numb to it's consequences
cheating can be discovered
hacking can trigger suicides
typing 'LOL' while driving can kill an innocent stranger, along with yourself
FLPanhandle
(7,107 posts)I don't blame the hackers at all.
The cheaters choose to engage in behaviors that, if caught, would be embarrassing and hurtful to their families, yet they still freely chose to do it.
It doesn't matter how they got caught to me.
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)And I think everyone can agree that as long as no one gets hurt, consents and is of age there is no harm.
Some folks photograph those acts. Again, kinda dumb if you ask me, but no one is hurt.
Then those photos on a computer are stolen and released.
Most people would be horrified. Their children would be mortified.
Now some folks say since the AM folks were cheaters, they and their families deserve this mortification. I dissent. Some things are private. Sex lives are private for everyone.
I have had enough of The Junior Linda Tripp League.
FLPanhandle
(7,107 posts)I agree with your statement "I think everyone can agree that as long as no one gets hurt, consents and is of age there is no harm."
IMHO, once married consent is expected by both partners. If both consent to an open marriage, no harm.
Cheaters don't have that consent and thereby do cause a lot of harm.
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)Public humiliation of a family also causes harm. That is my objection.
FLPanhandle
(7,107 posts)It's not the hacking but the cheating that caused the damage.
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Cheating is always a bad idea, but if you are someone who will commit suicide if exposed, it's an even worse idea. There are many ways besides hackers that you might be exposed.
agincourt
(1,996 posts)of the 33 million, what percentage actually found a hookup on the site?
Alkene
(752 posts)Both the news story itself, and some of the comments in this thread.
I envy those for whom death is still an abstraction.
At least I hope that's the explanation, because the alternative is mildly horrifying.
